Original steel wheels, or reproduction.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Surfing different market places for vintage parts. I have noticed that sellers are asking a lot for original steel wheels. Artillery wheels seem to bring the most money. There are companies that reproduce artillery wheels. So the question is, what would be the benefit of going with a 90 year old wheel. Versus going with a brand new one. Has anyone ever had an original steel wheel fail due to age and fatigue?

[Walt G]

In the past 60 years of collecting and driving old cars I never ever heard of a steel wheel having any faults. Wire wheels , yes, if they are rusty and rust at the inside center where the spokes are mounted that gets thin and then breaks apart. But even that was unusual.

[1912Staver]

Certainly they can fatigue and crack. But depending where you live, rust is the # 1 killer of old wheels. People leave them sitting around for decades with old tires mounted and the bead flanges rust away. 21 inch Model A wheels { late Model T , factory wire wheels as well }  have a rolled outer flange that around here at least { Pacific North West } is often rusted internally to the point where holes appear. 1969 Mercury styled wheels are very often cracked across the lug nut holes. You almost never see them anymore ,by the time they were 10 - 15 years old most had at least one crack . But most wheels just rust away to the point they are unsafe to use.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Scott Bonesteel]

I have had several 1934 Plymouth artillery wheels show cracks around the lug holes but thankfully have caught them either at time of purchase or during use but before complete failure.  These were manufactured, I believe, originally by the Motor Wheel company in 16 and 17 inches.  Note that these 34 wheel centers are 10-hole (the 17s are 12 hole) and are manufactured in a two-piece, 'sandwich' fashion, i.e., the lug bolt holes are on an inner plate that is sandwiched at the outer edge with the outer 'skin' portion of the wheel and at each of the individual 'artillery-wheel' holes, 10 of them.  I have since gone with 35 Plymouth rims, also in 16 inches, but made of a single stamping, and have never had a single one crack.  From the outside they look virtually identical when the hubcap is on.  Due to the manner in which the hubcaps attach (via clips riveted to the wheel center as opposed to clips on the hubcap into the outer skin of the 34 wheels), need to run 35 hubcaps.  Only visual difference is the stripe placement on the hubcaps is slightly different on the 35 caps (closer to the center of the cap) and there are slight detents in the 35 rim centers to facilitate screwdriver or small pry bar to remove the caps.  As my grandfather used to say, a man riding by on a crocheted bicycle is never going to notice the difference.  Small price to pay for avoiding the cracking found on the 34 'two piece' rims. Photos below of a 34 v. 35 rim, front and backsides, Motor Rim Stamp and a derelict 34 PE coupe I sold some time ago with original 34 rims. NOTE: There is a difference in the backspacing on these rims, the 34 being about 2 3/8" and the 35 being 3", so you need to calculate this into any interchange of rims.

[plymouthcranbrook]

 

 

Though not exactly an antique the steel mag type wheels on my 2001 Astro eventually got so bad that I had to replace them with pickup truck wheels. And when I tried to have a couple sand blasted to save one for a spare it took the guy at the powder coating shop three of them to find one. All were so thin that the sand went right through them. And even then I had to fiberglass patch a small hole in the best one to make it useable.

Edited December 4, 2022 by plymouthcranbrook (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

5 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Has anyone ever had an original steel wheel fail due to age and fatigue?

 

Forty years ago, I had a 1966 Chevrolet 1/2 ton pickup that was my daily driver and work truck (it was less than twenty years old at the time!). Twice, I had standard pickup drop center steel rims crack and split apart under the tire's bead. One, hidden on the inside rear, blew out while I was driving. The other, also hidden on the inside front, I made a U-turn and the suspension shifted just enough to allow the stretched out bead side to hit the A-frame on the front suspension during the turn. I pulled into a parking lot, crawled under and saw the bead stretched out about a half inch. I had a couple spare spares, and checked them only to find a third one cracked. I needed to buy a few more (garage sale time!), and sent three to the scrap yard.

 

A nasty funny one I saw. I had parked in the lot at a shopping mall. Was putting a few tools from the back of the truck into the cab before going inside. Some poor woman walks by heading into the mall, gets to the next row of cars just as something explodes right next to her! She was startled out of her wits and I ran over to see if help was needed. Turned out, the bead on the wheel rim of a parked car chose that moment, just sitting, to break loose and blow out, while she walked by. I reassured her that it wasn't a bomb, and she, still shaken, went on into the mall.

[1937hd45]

10 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Surfing different market places for vintage parts. I have noticed that sellers are asking a lot for original steel wheels. Artillery wheels seem to bring the most money. There are companies that reproduce artillery wheels. So the question is, what would be the benefit of going with a 90 year old wheel. Versus going with a brand new one. Has anyone ever had an original steel wheel fail due to age and fatigue?

I would think that is a discussion for Hot Rod / Street Rod people not people with original Pre WWII cars or restorations. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

Just a question about vintage wheels. I understand the desire and need for original parts on the restoration side of the car world. Wondering if anyone has had problems with vintage artillery wheels. This would be the group to ask, all of you would have the most knowledge about the topic. Nothing worse then investing some money in desirable vintage wheels, only to find out there were things to watch out for. I have seen a lot of wheel and tire combos for sale. Tough to inspect a wheel with a tire mounted. I have never had a problem with original steel wheels. There has been a lot of them that I have passed on. And kept looking for ones in nicer condition.

[Bloo]

5 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

I would think that is a discussion for Hot Rod / Street Rod people not people with original Pre WWII cars or restorations. 

 

Not in my opinion. While collecting a second set of stock Pontiac artillery wheels I didn't see cracks but I saw a lot of wheels in terrible condition. Prices are through the roof. I believe the hotrod/custom market drives it, and I don't understand. The choices for tires to fit them are limited and stupid expensive. I cant imagine why anyone other than a restorer would want them when brand new artillery wheels are available, and with rim sizes you can easily buy tires for. Of course a wheel shop could put different rims on your centers, but why? Maybe if the old rusty originals were cheap? They're not cheap.

 

 

[1912Staver]

I think the avaiaibility of reproduction wheels is very dependent on the make and model. Popular wheels may be reproduced, but many  / most are not.

[31 LaSalle]

On 12/4/2022 at 4:58 PM, 1912Staver said:

Certainly they can fatigue and crack. But depending where you live, rust is the # 1 killer of old wheels. People leave them sitting around for decades with old tires mounted and the bead flanges rust away. 21 inch Model A wheels { late Model T , factory wire wheels as well }  have a rolled outer flange that around here at least { Pacific North West } is often rusted internally to the point where holes appear. 1969 Mercury styled wheels are very often cracked across the lug nut holes. You almost never see them anymore ,by the time they were 10 - 15 years old most had at least one crack . But most wheels just rust away to the point they are unsafe to use.

 

on the subject of rusty wheels my 1929 peerless 6/61 has 6 wheels two fender mounted

which are all unusable due to rust through internally. hold air but unsafe to drive on

to look at from the front face they look perfect