GM Parts Interchange, Radiator, Trans, AC Condensor.

[Paul K.]

Does anyone know if the radiator for a 64 Cadillac DeVille is the same as a 64 Riviera? My neighbor has one and it sure looks the same. Also wanting know if the 64 Cadillac transmission and AC condensor are the same? I haven't gone back to take measurements but thought I would ask here first - maybe someone here has a Hollander parts interchange manual?  THX. 

[RivNut]

Copied and pasted from an article on Cadillac engines and transmissions.

 

The new 3 speed Turbo Hydra-matic was introduced in the Buick as the Super Turbine 400 in 1964.  In order to not let Buick get a jump on Cadillac, The 1964 deVilles, Eldorados and Fleetwood 60 Specials used the Buick transmission using an adaptor ring to mount to back of the 429 engine.  It was then introduced in Chevrolet, Pontiac and Oldsmobile in 1965.

- The Turbo Hydra-matic used in 1964 Cadillacs had a single range Drive shift pattern - PRNDL and is often called a Turbo Hydramatic 400, THM400, or Turbo 400 since other makes (e.g. Buick Super Turbine 400, Chevrolet Turbo Hydramatic 400) used 400 in the name. It has also become the common name used to refer to this family of Turbo Hydramatic transmissions.

- The 1964 "Buick Borrowed" Turbo Hydra-matic was a one year only transmission for Cadillac. 

 

Inspect the combo and see if the transmission is bolted on with an adapter.  

 

Here's the link to the entire article. Probably worth reading.

https://6364cadillac.ning.com/profiles/blogs/enginesandtransmissions

Edited October 19, 2022 by RivNut
added link (see edit history)

[EmTee]

11 hours ago, Paul K. said:

Does anyone know if the radiator for a 64 Cadillac DeVille is the same as a 64 Riviera?

Compare the numbers on the upper tank.

[Paul K.]

@ RivNut. The trans is out on a pallet and rebuilt prior to storage 5 or so years ago. From your message, its the same as the Buick. 

@ EmTee, will check the numbers. It looks like the original Harrison tank. Thanks to both of you. 

 

Can anyone provide measurements of the A/C condensor for a 64 Riv? Mine went missing years ago. THX. 

 

 

[XframeFX]

23 hours ago, RivNut said:

The 1964 deVilles, Eldorados and Fleetwood 60 Specials used the Buick transmission using an adaptor ring to mount to back of the 429 engine.

Cadillac model not mentioned is the entry level Series 62. It too received the new 429 cu in engine for '64 but was equipped with the carry-over 4-speed Hydra-Matic.

First I heard of "borrowed from Buick". More like the first HD 3-speed automatic with Simpson gears for high-end GMs.

[telriv]

That's true about the Nail trans in the '64 Cads.

 

Tom T.

[XframeFX]

11 minutes ago, telriv said:

That's true about the Nail trans in the '64 Cads.

My Interchange Manual says yes but description is confusing. Sometimes referred to as a Hydra Matic and 400

 

I had a 64 Series 62 with 429 and the older Hydra Matic. It would've had the Nailhead bellhousing pattern?

So it was indeed "Borrowed from Buick".

 

I imagine Buick was more eager for a replacement to the old Dynaflow in '64 than other divisions. The ST300 was probably not the solution for their high-end cars. Although the latter was mounted behind the "400 nailheads".

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[RivNut]

If you read the article in the link I provided, you’ll know how Cadillac split up the models for the Hydramatic and the TH400 (ST400) “borrowed from Buick.”  In other words, they used both depending on which series Cadillac. Both used the same 429 but in order to use the “ borrowed from Buick” transmission, an adapter had to be sandwiched between the ST400 and the 429. It’s all in the article.

[Bloo]

The nailhead version of the 400 transmission has a shorter bellhousing than you would expect by about 2 inches. Nailhead 400 transmissions were used in other makes like AMC and Jaguar using an adapter ring. I believe this continued even after Buick had discontinued the nailhead engine and no longer used this version of the 400 transmission themselves. Because of that missing ~2 inches and the almost round bolt pattern, it was easily adaptable to just about any engine. No doubt the same trick was done for Cadillac.

 

 

[telriv]

Rolls Royce also used the "Nail" trans. for quit a few yrs.

 

Tom T.

[XframeFX]

It's coming together now. I've seen Jaguar and RR TH400 images out of the car and thought how interesting, round bellhousings just like Nailhead Buicks. They must've had adapter rings as well but didn't show them in the images.

Thanks for indicating the bellhousing being about 2" less deep. Will line-up my TH400s next time to see the difference.

 

Jaguar did use 4L80s behind V12s for a short stretch. It had a somewhat round bellhousing with the starter on the right side. Jaguar bellhousing pattern, no adapter ring?

Jaguar 4L80 with tag "Z-JP":

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[1965rivgs]

On 10/18/2022 at 9:54 PM, RivNut said:

Copied and pasted from an article on Cadillac engines and transmissions.

 

The new 3 speed Turbo Hydra-matic was introduced in the Buick as the Super Turbine 400 in 1964.  In order to not let Buick get a jump on Cadillac, The 1964 deVilles, Eldorados and Fleetwood 60 Specials used the Buick transmission using an adaptor ring to mount to back of the 429 engine.  It was then introduced in Chevrolet, Pontiac and Oldsmobile in 1965.

- The Turbo Hydra-matic used in 1964 Cadillacs had a single range Drive shift pattern - PRNDL and is often called a Turbo Hydramatic 400, THM400, or Turbo 400 since other makes (e.g. Buick Super Turbine 400, Chevrolet Turbo Hydramatic 400) used 400 in the name. It has also become the common name used to refer to this family of Turbo Hydramatic transmissions.

- The 1964 "Buick Borrowed" Turbo Hydra-matic was a one year only transmission for Cadillac. 

 

Inspect the combo and see if the transmission is bolted on with an adapter.  

 

Here's the link to the entire article. Probably worth reading.

https://6364cadillac.ning.com/profiles/blogs/enginesandtransmissions

  Great post Ed

Tom Mooney

[telriv]

I know you couldn't get a TH400 behind ANY Chev. until 1967.

Same for, I believe, in Olds & Pontiac except for maybe the full size cars.

 

Tom T.

[EmTee]

I have a 1966 Turbo 400 behind the 327 in my '56 Chevy.

[telriv]

That's because YOU put it there.

 

Tom T.

[EmTee]

Ha - yeah, of course!  I was just noting that Chevy did have the turbo 400 in 1966.  I don't know what model it was originally removed from; likely was a full-size Chevy.

[Turbinator]

On 10/19/2022 at 3:02 PM, Paul K. said:

@ RivNut. The trans is out on a pallet and rebuilt prior to storage 5 or so years ago. From your message, its the same as the Buick. 

@ EmTee, will check the numbers. It looks like the original Harrison tank. Thanks to both of you. 

 

Can anyone provide measurements of the A/C condensor for a 64 Riv? Mine went missing years ago. THX. 

 

 

Paul, I have a “ new” one year old AC condenser OUT of my 63 Riviera. Exhaust your avenue with the Cadillac condenser and if you hit a dead end I’ll sell it what you think is a fair price. If you find one elsewhere as a gift that’s great. If you need an evaporator I have one as well. Turbinator