V16, where is the rest of the car?

[Xander Wildeisen]

https://m.facebook.com/marketplace/item/520597219814701/?ref=browse_tab&search_query=Desoto&tracking={"qid"%3A"-6067628528391733724"%2C"mf_story_key"%3A"8308956512463195"%2C"commerce_rank_obj"%3A"{\"target_id\"%3A8308956512463195%2C\"target_type\"%3A0%2C\"primary_position\"%3A-1%2C\"ranking_signature\"%3A0%2C\"commerce_channel\"%3A503%2C\"value\"%3A0}"%2C"ftmd_400706"%3A"111112l"}

[Mark Huston]

Here is the Facebook marketplace ad information:

 

1938 Cadillac V-16 · V-16

$5,500

 

Upland, CA · over a week ago

1938 Cadillac V-16 Limousin ART DECO · Other_body_style · Driven 123,456 miles

Complete front clip from a 1938 Cadillac V-16. Includes hood and hood sides, both fenders, grill, spare tire covers, V-16 badges, front bumper with bumper mounts and all trim. Has scratches and dings but NO RUST MAKE AN OFFER

 

    

 

  

[alsancle]

Could have been a rear end collision years ago and the car was parted out.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Is the V16 front end the same as other models? Or are these parts V16 cars only?

[alsancle]

I believe they are a different size than the V-8, but a late 16 expert needs to confirm that.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Guessing that not to many were made. That might be tough to find a buyer for the parts.

[1937hd45]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

I believe they are a different size than the V-8, but a late 16 expert needs to confirm that.

Are the V16's twice the length of the V8's, just wondering.

Edited June 30, 2022 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Grimy]

The 1938-40 V-16s (Series 90) ride on the same frames, 141.3 inch wheelbase, as the 1938-40 Series 75 (V8).  Diff gears are slightly different:  4.58 for 75, 4.31 for 90, hardly worth changing.  Same brake components, same transmissions, same axles.  You'll need a a horn button that reads "Sixteen."  I'm pretty sure that the front clips interchange--if done so that a complete 90 front clip and hood replaces a 75 front clip and hood.  In fact, I believe that there are more open 90s today than were ever built!  That comes from the more plentiful 75 open cars being converted to 90s.  Just buy a 90 sedan/limo and a 75 convertible coupe or convertible sedan and have at it....  Of course, that was some years ago when open V-16s enjoyed a huge price differential over open 75s, and I don't think that's the case today

Edited June 30, 2022 by Grimy
changed 1 word for understanding (see edit history)

[K8096]

Yes, 1938-40 Model 75 V-8 Cadillacs are basically the same car as the V-16.   The V-16 might have slightly heavier springs under it, but other than the engine, a few peices of trim, and a slightly fancier interior, they're the same car.  That front clip will bolt right on to a V-16.   Problem is, just about all the open V 16s have already been restored, along with numerous model 75s that have been made into V 16s.  People have been doing it since the 1960s.  So there is really no great demand for those parts.  Maybe if you wanted to convert a car to sidemounts they could be usefull.  I'm thinking $2000 - $2500 for everything.      

[Robert G. Smits]

The primary difference between the 38-40 75 series and 90 series is the grill, Hood side panels, hub caps horn button and some minor badging

38 minutes ago, Grimy said:

I believe that there are more open 90s today than were ever built!

along with the engine.  If my memory is correct several years ago the CCCA determined that members had 5 more 38 v-16 conv- coupes than the factory built in 38.  It should be noted that the grill in the front clip for sale is a 75 series grill and not a 90 series

[Robert G. Smits]

4 minutes ago, K8096 said:

slightly fancier interior

I think the interior is the same but i have been wrong before.  

[K8096]

You're right about the grille.   While they are interchangable (same dimensions), the eggcrate design is different between the two. And remember, they're a one piece potmetal casting & very heavy.   

 

Here's a model 75:   

 

 

And here's a V 16:  

 

The model 75 has a smaller square egg crate design, while the V 16 has a larger rectangle design.   I learned something new tonight.      

Edited June 30, 2022 by K8096 (see edit history)

[Grimy]

19 minutes ago, Robert G. Smits said:

It should be noted that the grill in the front clip for sale is a 75 series grill and not a 90 series

I think you're right.  That grille fits only 1938 65 & 75 series; 1939-40 75s had vee-ed grilles, the 1939s having finer (more bars) than the 1940.  The pictured fenders with mounted parking lights and side teardrops are V-16 only.

[K8096]

The sheetmetal of the fenders is all the same.   The fender lights & 3 teardrop molding on the bottom just bolt on items.     

[1937hd45]

Thanks for the photos showing the difference, great educational tool, posting photos.  

[alsancle]

Thanks guys!

 

A few years ago I got to drive a late V16 and then 20 minutes later the same year roadmaster, I actually liked the roadmaster slightly better. They were both well restored cars.  
 

Of course, I would not be turning one down if someone wanted to give me one.

[63RedBrier]

Deleted...

Edited June 30, 2022 by 63RedBrier
Post I mentioned disappeared... (see edit history)

[63RedBrier]

This V16 front end would certainly come in handy to the right owner of a V16 if they should happen to get into a front end collision...  If I had a V16 in which these parts would work, had the storage room, and I was close by, I would probably buy them just in case. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by 63RedBrier
Opening phrase no longer relevant... (see edit history)

[alsancle]

45 minutes ago, 63RedBrier said:

Back on topic...  This V16 front end would certainly come in handy to the right owner of a V16 if they should happen to get into a front end collision...  If I had a V16 in which these parts would work, had the storage room, and I was close by, I would probably buy them just in case. 

 

Ditto if you are restoring one.  There are some nice pieces on that clip.

[Restorer32]

Buy it, put it in the barn, cover it up with straw so only the grill and V16 emblem on the sidemount is visible then post a pic on Facebook Marketplace and wait for the fun to start. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

The parts could make their way on to the front end of a rat rod diesel truck. You never know where the open market might take them.

[TAKerry]

Looking at the original pics and the post by K8096, the grill for sale looks like the one on the model 75, not a '16'.  But I will admit I dont know what Im looking at.

 

[Jeff Hansen]

Interesting video on what it takes to restore a late V-16 grill.  Apologies if this is a repeat: 

 

 

[Robert G. Smits]

On 6/30/2022 at 5:25 AM, 63RedBrier said:

I would probably buy them just in case.

In the late 70's I purchased the basket case 38 v-16 with factory automatic transmission from Ron Van Geldren.  The car sat outside at an abandoned restoration facility in Main with the hood off, top down, heads off lying on the ground for several winters.  The hood, side panels and grill were missing. I walked around Hershey with a parts wanted egg crate sign for 9 years and never found the needed parts. (I did make a lot of Cadillac friends)  Our younger members have no concept of life before the internet, eBay and make specific forums.  One evening I was going through the November Hemmings looking for replacement glass for the gas gauge on my 58 Barritz and found a cluster for sale in Michigan.  I called the seller and purchased it and we started talking Cadillacs.  As was my routine I asked him if he knew anyone in the area who might have the 38 parts I needed.  The phone went dead for what seemed like an eternity and he finally came back with "  when I was a kid dad had a 38 90series sedan.  I remember him coming home one night and telling mom that he had purchased a front clip because he knew there were no parts available for this series and this would be important if he ever had a front end mishap."  I am going to visit mom this week end and I will check the garage.  The clip was still there and his family was going to Omaha for Thanksgiving and he delivered the parts to Des Moines.  Sometimes you get lucky.

If I were 20 years younger I would follow 63RedBrier's advice.