Let’s start conversation about a huge style change in GM cars between 1958 and 1959.

[Pfeil]

There are exceptions though. The 1940 Chevrolet was known as the Baby Buick

[Pfeil]

[Cadillac Fan]

I am only saying that 49-54 Chevrolets were dogs.  1955 Chevys changed that and made Chevrolet desirable.  

 

What occurred before 49 and after 55 is immaterial.  Chevy made some good looking cars (before 49 and after 55) though I don’t see much Cadillac in that 72.  

[John348]

1 hour ago, Cadillac Fan said:

I am only saying that 49-54 Chevrolets were dogs.  1955 Chevys changed that and made Chevrolet desirable.   

WOW!  REALLY? You think the car in the photo's is that ugly?  I am sure you did not mean it to offend anyone or to be intentionally rude, but just because you might not care for a particular vehicle we all must remember that vehicle might be someone's pride and joy. The vehicle in the photo happens to be mine, and I happen to find it a very good looking car. While in your opinion the change in 1955 made Chevrolets more desirable, but they were desirable ever since production began after WWII they were the sales leader of vehicles in that price range, and also produced over a million cars every year. Desirability was not an issue when new.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)

[Roger Zimmermann]

On 1/21/2022 at 1:19 AM, Cadillac Fan said:

 

Harley Earl had directly the styling department what he wanted for the 59 model year, and left for his annual European vacation.   
 

While he was away bill Mitchell saw the 57 Chrysler products and had the design staff work on two tracks.  The first, the continuation from the 58 models as directed by Harley Earl, before he left.  The second track was a new design in view of the 57 Chrysler products.  This second design is what they decided to make. 
 

 

 

I saw pictures from the models designed under Harley Earl in Collectible Automobile; they were awful. The 1959 cars at GM were indeed the result of a crash program.  There was no time to do a lot of differences between the brands; each had to use the same body shell and the front doors were the same for all,  as we could see in another post with a metal molding attached at the upper part of the front door.

[John348]

3 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

I saw pictures from the models designed under Harley Earl in Collectible Automobile; they were awful. The 1959 cars at GM were indeed the result of a crash program.  There was no time to do a lot of differences between the brands; each had to use the same body shell and the front doors were the same for all,  as we could see in another post with a metal molding attached at the upper part of the front door.

They did change the outer door skins while retaining the inner skins, thus allowing for them to share common hardware such as latches and vent window assemblies' the door's were very labor intensive body components assembled by Fisher Body. All we see are the pictures 65 years later we don't know the mission behind those photos. They were designing them from the inside out and the glass down 

[Roger Zimmermann]

31 minutes ago, John348 said:

They did change the outer door skins while retaining the inner skins, thus allowing for them to share common hardware such as latches and vent window assemblies

Without to be 100% sure, the body shell were entirely new for 1959. Most body parts (at Cadillac) have the same part number for 1957 and 58; 1959/60 have different numbers.

[8E45E]

4 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said:

I saw pictures from the models designed under Harley Earl in Collectible Automobile; they were awful. The 1959 cars at GM were indeed the result of a crash program.  There was no time to do a lot of differences between the brands; each had to use the same body shell and the front doors were the same for all,  as we could see in another post with a metal molding attached at the upper part of the front door.

Agree, some were nasty ugly! How GM‘s Radical 1959 Chevrolet Came to Be – Dean’s Garage (deansgarage.com)

 

Cohort Outtake: 1959 Buick – Just Missing The Third Central Fin | Curbside Classic

 

1959 Pontiac styling clay proposal | Mac's Motor City Garage (macsmotorcitygarage.com)

 

Craig

[SC38dls]

I’ve always had a special good feeling about the 54 Chevy Belair. My older brothers car I got to drive senior year of high school in 63-64 when he went off to college. Lots of fun with its 6 cylinder 3 on the tree. We would go to Skip’s drive-inn on North ave in Chicago west side burbs and sit there. Usually some muscle car guy would come over and ask what we had under the hood? I would say cost $5 to see. He would walk away but eventually it would bug him enough to come back. I would take the $5, open the hood and smile. Thank goodness I was about 6’ 230 lbs and in very good shape. We would still leave soon after but at least I had date money for Saturday night. Sometimes I even got lucky on Saturday night in the car but that’s not a story I will tell. 
dave s 

Edited January 23, 2022 by SC38dls (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

12 hours ago, Cadillac Fan said:

I am only saying that 49-54 Chevrolets were dogs.  1955 Chevys changed that and made Chevrolet desirable.  

 

What occurred before 49 and after 55 is immaterial.  Chevy made some good looking cars (before 49 and after 55) though I don’t see much Cadillac in that 72.  

I guess you must think the 49 Olds 98, all 48 Cadillacs, ALL 1949 G.M. cars, 1950-54 Chevrolet, 1950-54 Pontiac and 1950-to mid 52 Oldsmobile are all dogs because they all use the same basic styling theme and with that styling theme are linked together which was done intentionally by G.M. Styling. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

4 hours ago, John348 said:

They did change the outer door skins while retaining the inner skins, thus allowing for them to share common hardware such as latches and vent window assemblies' the door's were very labor intensive body components assembled by Fisher Body. All we see are the pictures 65 years later we don't know the mission behind those photos. They were designing them from the inside out and the glass down 

John, I hate to disappoint you. My first car (my dad's old car) was a S/O 59 Catalina, one of my friends had a 59 Impala whose driver's side door got mangled in an accident and we went to the junk yard and found a nice door from a 1959 88 and all we had to do was remove the bolted-on upper door piece and install it and paint it. We didn't even patch the body side molding holes (just glue taped them) because the BelAir molding covered it.  Look at the upper removeable piece on this 59 Olds 88 door picture below.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Cadillac Fan]

55 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

I guess you must think the 49 Olds 98, all 48 Cadillacs, ALL 1949 G.M. cars, 1950-54 Chevrolet, 1950-54 Pontiac and 1950-to mid 52 Oldsmobile are all dogs because they all use the same basic styling theme and with that styling theme are linked together which was done intentionally by G.M. Styling. 

 

 

 

 

The top car is an executive car.  The bottom car is a grandma’s car, or at best a secretary’s car. 
 

I see one car with style and the other as a six cylinder entry level. Sorry you don’t share my opinion and I don’t share your option.  Are we in a safe space, were I am unable to give my opinion?

 

 

Chuck Jordan and Dave Holls share my point of view.  Go read the quote I provided.  No self respecting man would buy a Chevrolet in 53-54.  

 

Good news:  you can own cars other people don’t like or think have much style.   Own what you like.  
 

 

FYI, that is the wrong tail fin.  Search p38 lighting. 
 

 

 

 

 

[Pfeil]

11 minutes ago, Cadillac Fan said:

The top car is an executive car.  The bottom car is a grandma’s car, or at best a secretary’s car. 
 

I see one car with style and the other as a six cylinder entry level. Sorry you don’t share my opinion and I don’t share your option.  Are we in a safe space, were I am unable to give my opinion?

 

 

Chuck Jordan and Dave Holls share my point of view.  Go read the quote I provided.  No self respecting man would buy a Chevrolet in 53-54.  

 

Good news:  you can own cars other people don’t like or think have much style.   Own what you like.  
 

 

FYI, that is the wrong tail fin.  Search p38 lighting. 
 

 

 

 

 

I think you are confusing Performance and mechanical feature with the basic styling of those cars.

[Cadillac Fan]

52 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

I think you are confusing Performance and mechanical feature with the basic styling of those cars.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history)

[Cadillac Fan]

Styling is an opinion.   When the designers and engineers are calling the car a grandma car, It is hard to disagree, though.  
 

 

[John348]

I came across this drawing in a Late Grate Chevy Magazine from March 1991 from an interview with Robert Cadaret, who was on the design team of the 1959 Chevrolets here is his drawing from July of 1957.  I notice some the styling cues were used in the other marques, like the wrap around tail lights that remind me of the 62 Buick Special, the rear bumper has a Pontiac look, no valances, and the "C" pillar design that started showing up in full size 1962 models. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)

[mrspeedyt]

i prefer the 1955,6,7 styles of the big three.

in my humble opinion 1958 ford and gm products are ugly. chrysler was better in 1958.

1959 was slightly better for gm (except for cadillac fins). 1959 ford was still awkward. 

by 1960 styles were somewhat better yet. (especially ford.)

1961 were the best looking for the gm. 

if i had a single choice it would be a 55 chevy nomad.

and if i had a second choice it would be a 61 gm bubble top 2dht.

Edited February 12, 2022 by mrspeedyt (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

On 1/22/2022 at 11:51 PM, Cadillac Fan said:

I am only saying that 49-54 Chevrolets were dogs.  1955 Chevys changed that and made Chevrolet desirable.  

The public outlook was clearly different then:

1949: 1.04M

1950: 1.37M

1951:  1.25M

1952:  827K

1953: 1.35M

1954: 1.15M

Production numbers, Standard Catalogue of American Cars, 1946-1975, Edited by John Gunnell.

[Pfeil]

7 hours ago, mrspeedyt said:

i prefer the 1955,6,7 styles of the big three.

in my humble opinion 1958 ford and gm products are ugly. chrysler was better in 1958.

1959 was slightly better for gm (except for cadillac fins). 1959 ford was still awkward. 

by 1960 styles were somewhat better yet. (especially ford.)

1961 were the best looking for the gm. 

if i had a single choice it would be a 55 chevy nomad.

and if i had a second choice it would be a 61 gm bubble top 2dht.

Which 61 G.M. Bubble top? There are two types.

[Cadillac Fan]

1 hour ago, 58L-Y8 said:

The public outlook was clearly different then:

1949: 1.04M

1950: 1.37M

1951:  1.25M

1952:  827K

1953: 1.35M

1954: 1.15M

Production numbers, Standard Catalogue of American Cars, 1946-1975, Edited by John Gunnell.

Ford out sold them in 1949, the first year of the design.   Post war America you could sell anything new.  

Regardless, a Toyota Camry is generally the top selling “car” over the last 20 years.  That does not make it a wonderfully stylish car.  Quite the opposite.  
 

Styling is an OPINION.   Everyone has one. 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

27 minutes ago, Cadillac Fan said:

Ford out sold them in 1949, the first year of the design.   Post war America you could sell anything new.  

Regardless, a Toyota Camry is generally the top selling “car” over the last 20 years.  That does not make it a wonderfully stylish car.  Quite the opposite.  
 

Styling is an OPINION.   Everyone has one. 

 

 

"Styling is an OPINION.   Everyone has one".

I think you've made your 's perfectly clear. Although many of us would not agree.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[John348]

In 1960 on the Chevrolets they felt the need for more floor space by narrowing the tunnel space. This is from the 1960 Chevrolet Engineering Features Book

 

 

[mrspeedyt]

 the 1961 gm bubble top i like is this one on the 2dht impala and the other divisions....

[John348]

Ironically GM never used the term "bubble top" to describe them. I think it might have been Motor Trend. 

[Pfeil]

The 59-60 bubble top has the best wraparound front windshield, although the dogleg clipped many an owner's knee. Strangely though I drove my 59 Cat for 10 years and never had a problem.

 

 

1961 Bubble top "B" body (Chevrolet-Pontiac-Oldsmobile-Buick) =one year only below.

 

The 61 "C" Body (Buick-Olds Cadillac) = one year only (note the "C" pilar difference between "B" and "C" bubble roofs).

 

 

[avgwarhawk]

1 minute ago, Pfeil said:

The 59-60 bubble top has the best wraparound front windshield, although the dogleg clipped many an owner's knee. Strangely though I drove my 59 Cat for 10 years and never had a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh my gosh...I thought it was me clipping my darn knee on that dogleg!!!!! 

 

[John348]

30 minutes ago, avgwarhawk said:

Oh my gosh...I thought it was me clipping my darn knee on that dogleg!!!!! 

 

 

NO YOU WERE NOT! I STILL DO  Chrysler actually pointed them out in a promotional film comparing the Plymouth Station Wagon to the Chevrolet and Ford Station Wagon's

Edited February 14, 2022 by John348 (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

30 minutes ago, John348 said:

 

NO YOU WERE NOT! I STILL DO  Chrysler actually pointed them out in a promotional film comparing the Plymouth Station Wagon to the Chevrolet and Ford Station Wagon's

Every time on my 60 Electra! 

[8E45E]

1 hour ago, Pfeil said:

The 59-60 bubble top has the best wraparound front windshield, although the dogleg clipped many an owner's knee. 

Despite GM's rationalizing their five divisions in 1959, Cadillac, and senior Oldsmobiles and Buicks retained the front door window switches on the dogleg for '59-60, while the lesser cars had them on the door panel.   

 

Craig