Native Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 My 53 Roadmaster Riviera threw a shoe today. Made a heck of a vibration for a few seconds then no problem. It got hot cooked the grease out. Bearings are OK and so are the races. NAPA called for a TS197. Upon attempting to install them the drum just will not seat all the way home. Further inspection shows a different diameter between the old frame and the new ones. Any input is greatly appreciated. We are about 5 hours from home with the car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) Auto Zone shows 2 different shoes, one std and one power brakes. 2.25 vs 2.5 width. This is front brakes. Rear show 2.25" x 12". Front 2.5" are pn 419 rear are pn 197. Edited February 7, 2021 by TexasJohn55 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 your local auto parts stores are not likely to have them, maybe napa has the right ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, TexasJohn55 said: your local auto parts stores are not likely to have them, maybe napa has the right ones. I got these at NAPA. Old shoes are wider and shorter in length.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) Don't assume your hardware is all original, measure drums, are they 12"? Are the shoes (metal part) the same? The shoe lining will be one long and one short. The shoes should measure the same width as the inside of the drum and should fit if laid inside. If there a large gap in the middle of the lining while the ends are in firm contact, the shoes should be arced to fit. PS: The shoe with the shorter lining always goes to the front. Edited February 7, 2021 by TexasJohn55 (see edit history) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Is this a front or rear brake assembly? If a rear assembly is the parking brake adjusted too tight? Any idea why the shoe became detached? Was it a front or rear shoe that became detached? What grease was cooked out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 10 hours ago, Native said: My 53 Roadmaster Riviera threw a shoe today . . . Bearings are OK and so are the races. NAPA called for a TS197 . . . 8 hours ago, Native said: I got these at NAPA. Old shoes are wider and shorter in length.? - It sounds like you're talking about a front brake shoe. Correct or not? - According to NAPA's online catalog, a TS197 brake shoe is 2.25" wide — which is INCORRECT for a 1953 Buick Roadmaster front brake shoe. The original front brake shoe width on a 1953 Roadmaster is 12" x 2.50" wide. https://www.napaonline.com/en/search/brakes/pads-shoes/auto-parts/buick/roadmaster/1953?param=addVehicle - IMO, it sounds like you didn't get the TS197 brake shoes that should have fit your front drums even though they are not wide enough. Correct or not? Al Malachowski BCA #8965 "500 Miles West of Flint" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Front passenger, what I was given was the more narrow yet longer shoes. This longer length is what is causing the drum not to go on all the way. Can anyone tell me the proper napa part number? It was the long shoe that let loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 I see you used sales rep number 58. That could be significant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Native said: Front passenger, what I was given was the more narrow yet longer shoes. This longer length is what is causing the drum not to go on all the way. Can anyone tell me the proper napa part number? It was the long shoe that let loose. FWIW. Your description of your problem is hard to understand from the get-go. There's a difference between a brake shoe and a brake lining. Please confirm that the brake shoe with the lining let loose and not just the lining. Thanks. - All eight brake shoes on your 1953 Buick Roadmaster should be the same length. - The front brake Primary linings were originally 2.50"-wide x .250"-thick x 10" long. - The front brake Secondary linings were originally 2.50"-wide x .250"-thick x 13" long. - The rear brake Primary linings were originally 2.25"-wide x .187"-thick x 10" long. - The rear brake Secondary linings were originally 2.25"-wide x .187"-thick x 13" long. Typical Buick original asbestos brake linings . . . later than 1953. NAPA = no accurate parts available. Al Malachowski BCA #8965 "500 Miles West of Flint" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 I agree with Al. It's hard to imagine a shoe becoming detached unless springs are breaking. And grease being burned out of a bearing or race says those subject bearings and races will have to be replaced. If the grease did burn out it would seem the drum would likely be misaligned when reinstalling it. Since shoes are sold in pairs and since the new shoes do not match the old ones you should be replacing the shoes on both front axles. If the other side brake drum goes on then you should inspect the spindle on this impacted side for damage from un greased races. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 Technically, brake "shoes" and "linings" are two separate items. From back when shoes would get new linings (the "friction" material) riveted onto them by the auto supply store. Rather than in a "core exchange" situation which came later, as did glue-on/bonded friction linings for the brake shoes, rather than riveted-on. For less-vintage operatives, the whole "assemblage" of "shoe + friction material/lining" tend to be termed "brake shoes". An observed evolution of sorts? NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 My kids say I haven't moved forward enough to become a throwback. I still take my shoes and drums to the brake shop where they reline, arch, and fit them. It is fresh, non-asbestos material available in three stopping power grades. And he does mail order worldwide: https://www.rochesterclutch.com/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 The lining came loose, as in totally disconnected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Native Posted February 7, 2021 Author Share Posted February 7, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 On 2/7/2021 at 3:09 PM, 60FlatTop said: My kids say I haven't moved forward enough to become a throwback. I still take my shoes and drums to the brake shop where they reline, arch, and fit them. It is fresh, non-asbestos material available in three stopping power grades. And he does mail order worldwide: https://www.rochesterclutch.com/ Wish we still had a local shop where they would reline and arch the friction material to match the drum- Actually we don't even have a decent place to "TURN" brake drums and rotors, or a flywheel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 On 2/6/2021 at 6:03 PM, Native said: . . . Upon attempting to install them the drum just will not seat all the way home. Further inspection shows a different diameter between the old frame and the new ones . . . On 2/7/2021 at 6:02 AM, Native said: . . . This longer length is what is causing the drum not to go on all the way . . . You might want to spend some time comparing your front brake backing plates for any differences or needed adjustments. Al Malachowski BCA #8965 "500 Miles West of Flint" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 In over 50 years of working on cars, I have never arched brake shoes. I just bed them in per instructions. i.e. I use the drum to arch the linings by using the brakes!😉 If the linings and drums are that far apart on dimensions, you may have exceeded the legal maximum on drum size and need to replace them. This is also why turning a drum is the LAST thing I want to do, as it is hard (costly) to replace that removed material. Linings are way cheaper to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 To the OP, it looks like the shoes are wrong, maybe the re-liner got them mixed up and therefore in the wrong box. It's not like there are numbers on many shoes to know what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 In 20 years of working on drum brakes of various kinds, I had never needed to re-arc shoes, but it the last year, I've had to do it on my 57 and a client's 55 Pontiac. The old shoes would line up fine with the drums, but the new ones we purchased were off by quite a bit (for my 57). But there was a screwup on the 55 Pontiac where they sent a pair of 2" shoes...and they were perfect for the drum. But they were too wide and caused the drum to lock up when the wheel was installed. So we got a set of correct 1 3/4" shoes and they were again WAY off with the arc. So maybe it's just hit and miss. Aside from that, this was also the first time I've had to mess with anchor pin adjustments. This adjustment alone created a night-and-day difference in pedal feel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 In the early 1990's I became associated with another PIA perfectionist through a business organization. One of his specialties was making Silver Clouds stop flawlessly. I have been using his preferred brake shop and techniques ever since. As Louie Prima said "It 's not enough hurt me none". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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