Marjorie Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 My great-grandfather was an oil producer in Texas from 1905 to 1925. I think this photo is from 1920. He had a number of cars and I can't identify this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Maybe a Kissel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbartlett Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Given the size, my guess is a Daniels, admittedly a pretty rare car back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Jim......I just came across a Daniels last night...........😎 Another phone rang story.......and the ending isn’t written yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marjorie Posted September 30, 2020 Author Share Posted September 30, 2020 I’ll take a look at a Daniels. Could it possibly be a Locomobile? He had one but this photo doesn’t look like examples I’ve found on the web. What’s really confusing is the front fender doesn’t continue to a running board. I see 2 brackets on the side that almost look like steps. Perhaps he had the running board removed because it was too low for the rough roads around his oil fields? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrbartlett Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Some cars used these step plates because they conveyed an air of sportiness. And notice how their use, plus the absence of a running board, makes the car look more massive and powerful. As for a Locomobile, I own one, and I don't believe this car is one. But I sure would like to own it whatever it was. Ed -- Be sure to fill me in on your Daniels adventure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Could it be a Revere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 All, It is definitely NOT a Kissel. Kissel did not use that style side step plate, nor wheel hub, and the hood vents, typical of a 1919-1922 Kissel Model 6-45 are not there. It could be a Revere but I doubt it. The Revere I almost bought was near original and had Buffalo Wheels just like my Kissels and the Revere radiator seemed more massive and a bit sloped as compared to this picture. This car has beaded fenders with massive curvature - that wasn’t common after 1920 or so, such that you other experts can perhaps narrow it down. Custom Cunningham ? Thanks, Ron Hausmann P.E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, ron hausmann said: All, It is definitely NOT a Kissel. Kissel did not use that style side step plate, nor wheel hub, and the hood vents, typical of a 1919-1922 Kissel Model 6-45 are not there. It could be a Revere but I doubt it. The Revere I almost bought was near original and had Buffalo Wheels just like my Kissels and the Revere radiator seemed more massive and a bit sloped as compared to this picture. This car has beaded fenders with massive curvature - that wasn’t common after 1920 or so, such that you other experts can perhaps narrow it down. Custom Cunningham ? Thanks, Ron Hausmann P.E. What was the other one that looked like the Revere but had a French name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gillingham Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 That looks like a Daniels; they have that distinctive front edge of the fender that extends over the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted September 30, 2020 Share Posted September 30, 2020 Apperson? Appersons were similar to Kissels, some having arched radiators, but longer wheelbases like the car in the picture. I’m not that familiar with them though. thanks, Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marjorie Posted October 1, 2020 Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 Thank you all for your guidance. Lots to think about! Any chance it could be a Franklin? I know he had one in 1921 but don’t know when he bought it. I’m thinking between 1915 and 20 if that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dictator27 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Not a Franklin. They were air cooled and did not have a "normal" engine hood in the late teens/early twenties. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, jrbartlett said: Some cars used these step plates because they conveyed an air of sportiness. And notice how their use, plus the absence of a running board, makes the car look more massive and powerful. As for a Locomobile, I own one, and I don't believe this car is one. But I sure would like to own it whatever it was. Ed -- Be sure to fill me in on your Daniels adventure. Jim.......If it turns into an adventure, I will blog it just like the White. I’m on a hell of a streak lately, finding unknown fantastic stuff........can’t buy it all, but I can try! Our average so far this year is 100 percent.......everything we chased down we landed......the run of luck can’t last forever. Usually if I buy one in fifty cars I look at, I think I’m doing fine. Edited October 1, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gillingham Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 This is a 1920 Daniels. I realise body, mudguards, wheels etc. are different, but, It is a good comparison for the radiator, bonnet/hood, louvers, latch and side-lamp. I can't find an example of this exact body style, although those sidesteps were used on the town-cars. The wheels are also the same (Rudge). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 (edited) Craig, I posted that photo today. Your correct, it’s a 1920 Daniels, I have a bunch of other photos of them. Edited October 1, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Daniels motor cars....similar vintage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 6 hours ago, ron hausmann said: All, It is definitely NOT a Kissel. Kissel did not use that style side step plate, nor wheel hub, and the hood vents, typical of a 1919-1922 Kissel Model 6-45 are not there. It could be a Revere but I doubt it. The Revere I almost bought was near original and had Buffalo Wheels just like my Kissels and the Revere radiator seemed more massive and a bit sloped as compared to this picture. This car has beaded fenders with massive curvature - that wasn’t common after 1920 or so, such that you other experts can perhaps narrow it down. Custom Cunningham ? Thanks, Ron Hausmann P.E. Ron, gave your contact info to someone last night with a Kissel for sale.........let me know if he contacts you. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gillingham Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 (edited) Quote Craig, I posted that photo today. Your correct, it’s a 1920 Daniels, I have a bunch of other photos of them. Ed, good, I think we're on the same page here. I was looking for a photo of a Daniels with a Touring body like the O.P., but without running boards. The wire-wheels and side-step plates on the other cars you posted match the O.P. car nicely. Edited October 1, 2020 by Craig Gillingham (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Those were the best I had.........didn’t have a touring car. Original post photo is a great car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haisley Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 You are so cool guys - so much knowledge of vintage cars. It wowed me! 🤩👏 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marjorie Posted October 1, 2020 Author Share Posted October 1, 2020 Great detective work, all! Thanks for posting those photos—they confirm the identification as a Daniels. I really appreciate your help. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Identifying unknown cars here is like playing the lottery...........everyone wants to be the winner. Its a fun task.........and the car you posted was rare unusual, and very much above average in its day...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 On 10/1/2020 at 10:21 AM, nzcarnerd said: What was the other one that looked like the Revere but had a French name? I remembered the car with the French name - the Argonne. It did look a little like this but I realise it isn't an Argonne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwells Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 One problem with the Daniels is that they were only built to order, so there is a fair amount or variation among them IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintman Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 Hi Folks, I checked with our friend Ariejan Bos in Holland who seems very good at sniffing out oddities and he advised: ” …I did some checking and in my opinion Daniels is correct. The second photo already shows several details which are similar to the mystery photo like hood bracket and handle. On page 158 of the 1920 Handbook of Gasoline Automobiles several details match like louvre pattern, rad emblem, side light. Same wire wheels, which seem to have a D in the middle. The mystery photo however must be a custom version with the steps instead of the running board and the slightly different top style.” Regards Vintman (UK) www.svvs.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 The steps and removed running boards were a popular fad in 1920 & 1921 on some high end cars.......Cunningham, Daniels, Pierce, Crane......just to name a few. They came and went in about three years. Mostly on auto show cars and custom ordered cars for the fast crowd. The depression of 1921 took care of flashy looking cars for a few years. You see them again ten years later for a short time on many specials. “Everything old is new again.” 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marjorie Posted October 3, 2020 Author Share Posted October 3, 2020 Thanks so much for all the info! And an expert in Holland, even. So glad he confirmed your identification of the car as a Daniels. Great! I'm interested to see that one of you, EdinMass, is a Pierce-Arrow expert. My great-grandfather--the same one in front of the Daniels--toured Europe in his 1911 Pierce and kept a journal of the trip. With him were his two teenage sons and his brother. The itinerary was pretty amazing: his ship from Boston landed in Naples, and from there he drove to Rome, Florence and Venice, made it over Gothard Pass into Switzerland, followed the Rhine River through Germany to Amsterdam, then drove through Belgium to Paris and Le Mans, loaded the Pierce onto a boat to cross the English Channel, toured England, Scotland and Wales before crossing the Irish Sea for a trip around the island. The trip took just over three months. At every stop, he took a photo of the car. When he returned home, he had the journal printed for friends and family. I was lucky enough to find a copy in my father's effects. What a treat! I've attached just one photo so you get an idea. I wish I'd known him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 (edited) Marjorie, as a historical document, the Pierce Arrow Society would love to publish the material and story in the club’s magazine. Your great grandfather must have been a very successful gentleman, and he certainly had a taste for nothing but the best. His Pierce Arrow at the time would have been considered one of the best cars in the world. If he documented all the cars he owned with photographs, the entire history of his cars and life story would be of interest to all automotive historians. The travel books at that time show a unique snapshot of tourist destinations before they were over run with population and transportation. Would love to see more of his archive. In the world of early American transportation it’s an important resource, and several automotive library’s would be grateful to have the documents for historical reference and scholarship study. Ed PS- with your permission I would like to share the photo above with some Pierce Arrow friends. Edited October 4, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 On 9/30/2020 at 11:07 PM, edinmass said: Ron, gave your contact info to someone last night with a Kissel for sale.........let me know if he contacts you. Ed Ed - no one has contacted me yet. I’m always interested in adding to my herd. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marjorie Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 Ed in Mass, you can certainly share the photo. I'm in the process of writing a book about the man and his motorcars now, and I would love to put an article together for the magazine at some point. Let me know how to get in touch when I'm ready. The research has been exciting, and I can't thank all the folks who posted answers to my cry for help! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 On 10/4/2020 at 8:48 AM, ron hausmann said: Ed - no one has contacted me yet. I’m always interested in adding to my herd. Ron Ron, You're funny. Those of us that have the "disease", have a hard time stopping. It is like the Lay's potato chip ad, "you can't have just one". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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