Matt Harwood Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) I'm at the Mecum auction in Indy and spotted a few cars that I was interested in. Bought a nice Cougar convertible and a Mercedes SL that they were practically giving away at no reserve, and I was high bidder on this Roadmaster, which laid [yet another] egg on the block and stalled at $28K with the reserve somewhere well beyond. I'm not going to chase it, I just thought I'd get lucky. Anyway, I saw these Packards that caught my eye, but as I frequently warn others, vehicles bought at auction are a crapshoot at best and a money pit at worst. Cougars are simple enough and the SL was so cheap that nothing matters on it, but these two Packards would be something I'd be leery of simply because they could burn me badly. Does anyone recognize them? Anyone know these cars? I particularly like the 1931 Custom 8 coupe with the subtle colors and disc wheels. Big, handsome car! And what's up with this roadster's top? I've never seen it stowed like that. Edited July 16, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 The 31 Packard coupe sold in January (This year) at Bonhams for $56k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 The roadster top has the rare Bimini Feature. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Sorry Matt, can't give you any specifics. But if they are giving away free cars will you grab a Hemi car for me? Preferably with paperwork. My general opinion is to avoid Packards painted red, but I like that coupe also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 15 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: And what's up with this roadster's top? I've never seen it stowed like that. Looks like someone made top 1/4's unsnap at the rear - the rear window looks folded up into the top like it would be and that is normal, but as to the two 1/4 panels I guess it could have come like that new, but my guess is someone had problems seeing out and did a little of their own handiwork in restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 15 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: Plenty of this look existed as a new car - a set of wheel disk covers would do looks an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 15 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: A good period look with or without the whitewalls 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 15 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: Worth more, but assume it is cavern green or whatever they called the green that is almost black matched to wrong venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, Cadillac Fan said: The 31 Packard coupe sold in January (This year) at Bonhams for $56k. Well that's not reassuring. Frequent fliers are always a red flag and to take something like that '31 coupe to a Mecum auction just screams "I'm trying to dump it." I was optimistic that since it will be in front of the wrong crowd, there might be a bargain to be had, but now all my BS detectors are going off. We'll see where it goes--I think it's worth $35-40K even with issues, but will it even get there in front of this crowd? No idea. 4 hours ago, alsancle said: Sorry Matt, can't give you any specifics. But if they are giving away free cars will you grab a Hemi car for me? Preferably with paperwork. My general opinion is to avoid Packards painted red, but I like that coupe also. There were actually quite a few cars that were so cheap as to be nearly free. I don't want to reveal what I paid for a 1989 560SL because people will lose their minds when they see my retail price and get all bent about me making money, but yeah, it will almost cost me more to ship it home. A lot of cars just up and died on the block like that Roadmaster up there, but even some genuinely good muscle just couldn't get it done. That concerns me, although it was only Thursday. We'll see how it goes later today (Friday evening) and tomorrow (Saturday) when people from out of town come in for the big stuff. I have two cars going through tonight and tomorrow and I'm optimistic that they'll do well. I still think there's a lot of pent-up demand and people want the excitement of a live auction. There were no "free" Hemi cars, but there were more than a few that sold under what I thought they should, including a triple black Charger that was a real-deal Hemi car. There was no mention of matching-numbers, but I'm noticing recently that the auction companies NEVER mention whether a car is numbers-matching regardless of its status, presumably to avoid liability in either direction. For the $65,000 or so it brought, it was surely not numbers-matching, but a nice triple-black 1969 Hemi Charger with a replacement Hemi really isn't a bad buy at that price. That's garden-variety U-code 440 money. Lots of bargains. For instance, I was very tempted by this Crestliner at $8500 seeing as I sold a similar one a few months ago for $25,000, but I already did my "opportunity" buys for this trip. I also thought this rare '56 Ford Crown Vic glasstop was a reasonably good buy at $26,000--RM sold an exceptional one for six figures about a year ago and when I looked at this one afterwards I didn't see anything that really jumped out beyond the cheeseball tires, way over-done stereo, and slightly scruffy engine bay. Body was very straight, interior was nice, and it "seemed" to run well. Auction cars are always a gamble, of course, but when they're cheap enough, the odds can tilt in your favor. On the other hand, V8 Fords are a pretty tough sell these days so... Oh, and it'll be interesting to see what this thing does on Saturday, It's actually not badly done with good attention to detail and efforts to make it appear authentic, the dash in particular. I can't find it in my heart to hate it. And I was delighted to see it wearing 20-inch radials in the same 7.00-20 size as my '29 Cadillac should wear, so they exist. Hmmmm... This poor car has been flogged to within an inch of its life since someone over-paid for it at the Del DeYoung collection last year. It goes through today. Edited July 17, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, John_Mereness said: Worth more, but assume it is cavern green or whatever they called the green that is almost black matched to wrong venue. It is an odd car. It is dark green, which I do find attractive despite the fact that people don't respond to it. I think the big asterisk on this car is the claimed 12,000 miles and all-original condition. The paint and chrome are REALLY, REALLY nice. I think no matter what you do, the passage of time will take its toll and I'm just not convinced that it's an all original car. I mean, even the plastics inside are immaculate. Steering wheel has been re-cast, I'm sure, but for the rest to be that nice? My BS detector is beeping a little bit. It also has a cloth interior, which was special-ordered and correct in this car according to the trim tag, but does anyone want cloth upholstery in an open car? I think all that held it back, plus, as you say, the wrong venue for such a thing. The Roadmaster phaetons have really fallen out of favor recently--even Doug Seybold says he has two ready for restoration and nobody's interested. The convertible coupes, yes, but the phaetons are becoming a tough sell all over the map. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: And I was delighted to see it wearing 20-inch radials in the same 7.00-20 size as my '29 Cadillac should wear, so they exist. Hmmmm... I believe they were Excelsior brand, but that said they were also on a "modern" new manufacture solid aluminum wheels - RADIALS ARE NOT SUITED FOR LOCK RING STYLE WHEELS AND YOU WILL GET YOURSELF KILLED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 The 2007 duesenburg sold for 200k at worldwide auburn auction in 2019. It has been For sale since then. Might be a home run at this venue. Who knows? I wonder how the 1940 Cadillac 62 convertible sedan will do in comparison to the 1941 Buick road master? 4 of the 75 1940 Cadillac 62 convertible sedans produced have been for sale in the last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: It is an odd car. It is dark green, which I do find attractive despite the fact that people don't respond to it. I think the big asterisk on this car is the claimed 12,000 miles and all-original condition. The paint and chrome are REALLY, REALLY nice. I think no matter what you do, the passage of time will take its toll and I'm just not convinced that it's an all original car. I mean, even the plastics inside are immaculate. Steering wheel has been re-cast, I'm sure, but for the rest to be that nice? My BS detector is beeping a little bit. It also has a cloth interior, which was special-ordered and correct in this car according to the trim tag, but does anyone want cloth upholstery in an open car? I think all that held it back, plus, as you say, the wrong venue for such a thing. The Roadmaster phaetons have really fallen out of favor recently--even Doug Seybold says he has two ready for restoration and nobody's interested. The convertible coupes, yes, but the phaetons are becoming a tough sell all over the map. Agree on the Green, I never minded the particular color, but equally glad I am not trying to sell it either. I had the 45K miles all original 41 Super Sedan (in Maroon) that I bought from original owner and it had basically been kept in a cold storage warehouse since 1948, when they bought a "new" car, but they had a heated garage when new and took exceptional care - it was nice, but nowhere near as "crisp" as this Convertible sedan. I suspect a double edged sword - When I see original, I generally think a little less in price, but willing to pay decent as I know I have a better product (aka original cars are great and I would take one over a restored what was "hulk" any day). That said though, original cars usually leave a little to be desired undercarriage cleanliness wise and in the corners of X under the hood (which plenty of people are not too fond of). Most original cars I have had are a careful balance or original to what I have chosen to upgrade. And, yes you want LEATHER in a Convertible Coupe and a Convertible Sedan unless you are crossing the podium at Pebble Beach and the build sheet or factory photos state cloth for your Duesenberg, V-16 Cadillac or .... I had this conversation yesterday - someone wanted an X marque sedan and I set them up with one done by the gu-ru of the marque and their buyer was turned off by the price (well, I suspect Doug has same issue - it costs plenty to restore and a lot of people will not step up to that plate as they can get a X for less = well, you can get an X for less, but it is not going to be the same quality of car). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 52 minutes ago, Cadillac Fan said: The 2007 duesenburg sold for 200k at worldwide auburn auction in 2019. It has been For sale since then. Might be a home run at this venue. Who knows? I wonder how the 1940 Cadillac 62 convertible sedan will do in comparison to the 1941 Buick road master? 4 of the 75 1940 Cadillac 62 convertible sedans produced have been for sale in the last year. 1940 Cadillac 62 was just a no-sale at $50,000 bid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: 1940 Cadillac 62 was just a no-sale at $50,000 bid. If real money seems like that is about right. The other two that sold this year were around that. I guess the seller is waiting for a few more years until the market hits The mid forty’s. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) Red '36 Packard bid to $120,000 against a $250,000 reserve. Brown '31 Packard a few cars ahead of mine, bid to $54,000 and was a no-sale. A few early Shelby Mustang prototypes and development cars sold quite well, then all the air seemed to go out of the room. Even seemingly good stuff like split-window fuelie Corvettes just lay there. I'm puzzled because there was plenty of money and lots of action, but they were really struggling to move the stuff in the $50-150 range. On a totally unrelated topic, Indianapolis is a really nice city. Seems nice to live here. Edited July 18, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doozer Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Hope you’re having a great time Matt. Have a nice drink and relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdc Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 That red/burnt orange 1936 120 convertible coupe was on Ebay a few years ago. IIRC it was for sale in Ontario, Canada (by a dealer?) and the price was less than $100k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 54 minutes ago, bdc said: That red/burnt orange 1936 120 convertible coupe was on Ebay a few years ago. IIRC it was for sale in Ontario, Canada (by a dealer?) and the price was less than $100k. That's not a 120, it's a 1401 coupe/roadster. A desirable car and certainly worth more than the $120 bid, but maybe not the $250 reported reserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadillac Fan Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Mecum’s website says that the 31 Packard coupe sold for $59,400. They must have gotten a deal done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdc Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: That's not a 120, it's a 1401 coupe/roadster. A desirable car and certainly worth more than the $120 bid, but maybe not the $250 reported reserve. Matt, I should know better. I've seen this 1401 up for sale a few years ago but I don't know any history. This 1401 has a metal trunk in the same color as the body right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericmac Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 21 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: It is an odd car. It is dark green, which I do find attractive despite the fact that people don't respond to it. I think the big asterisk on this car is the claimed 12,000 miles and all-original condition. The paint and chrome are REALLY, REALLY nice. I think no matter what you do, the passage of time will take its toll and I'm just not convinced that it's an all original car. I mean, even the plastics inside are immaculate. Steering wheel has been re-cast, I'm sure, but for the rest to be that nice? My BS detector is beeping a little bit. It also has a cloth interior, which was special-ordered and correct in this car according to the trim tag, but does anyone want cloth upholstery in an open car? I think all that held it back, plus, as you say, the wrong venue for such a thing. The Roadmaster phaetons have really fallen out of favor recently--even Doug Seybold says he has two ready for restoration and nobody's interested. The convertible coupes, yes, but the phaetons are becoming a tough sell all over the map. I continue to be surprised that convertible sedans are not the high end car of any brand. While I understand that some see them as stodgy, to my eye they have great proportions and are a very practical car for someone who has a family. I may be biased though...I've owned 12 convertible sedans and 3 touring cars over the years, but only 7 roadsters/2 door convertibles. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwchatham Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 If the Cadillac has a cloth interior that was special ordered from the factory that makes it very cool , I have a 1959 Cadillac Eldorado that was special ordered with cloth inserts in the seats , I chased that car for many years to buy it because of the interior . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Matt, can you share a pic and some details about the Cougar please? Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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