Green Oil

[lancemb]

Hoping for some info and opinions here.  I drained the oil on the newly rebuilt (soon to be installed) engine for my 1957 75R today, and out came fresh green oil!

 

1)  What kind of oil is this?  I am assuming synthetic.  Quaker State?

 

2)  Since this is what the engine builder installed, he must have faith in it.  Should I put the dame thing back in?

 

 

[avgwarhawk]

I think Amsoil is green. 

 

[SpecialEducation]

We use preservative oil in airplane engines that’s green, but it’s a much darker green. 
 

I’d call your engine builder and ask. 

[Bloo]

The old Kendall GT-1 oil (possibly now known as "Brad Penn") looked like that. Expensive but good oil. Not synthetic. I second asking the engine builder.

[Smartin]

I was thinking break-in oil like Brad Penn or Gibbs.  Has the engine been run?

[lancemb]

37 minutes ago, Smartin said:

I was thinking break-in oil like Brad Penn or Gibbs.  Has the engine been run?

Nope

[60FlatTop]

"Only your engine builder knows for sure". I think I heard something similar about hair color before green was popular.

 

Call the engine builder and tell him you think you drained a few quarts of antifreeze out of it. He will be very forthcoming.

 

Remember "I thought" are the two most dangerous words in the English language.

[gdmn852]

Hello  ,Penn Brad does have a 30 w oil as a brake in oil that has a higher level of additives.it is green color that was typical of Pennsylvania type engine oils ,but as the above post mentioned call the engine rebuilter and find out for sure.$$$ to rebuilt the first time .  

[buick5563]

ALLEGEDLY, the green oil has dye in it to detect leaks, like an AC system. 

[lancemb]

Thanks folks.  The engine builder was the seller of the car.  I'll give him a call; hopefully he's still well.  He probably uses same oil in all his builds.

[60FlatTop]

15 hours ago, lancemb said:

The engine builder was the seller of the car.

 

Reminds me of a story. I was either number 2 or number three in a four way cluster. One was the recent purchaser, one had arranged the purchase, one was correcting a list of deficiencies, and me, an innocent observer. Word of the growing deficiency list got back to the person who arranged the deal. He was not too happy and promptly let us know "the previous owner of that car would never own a car in the condition you are describing". I graciously agreed.

[Guest]

On 6/13/2020 at 7:56 AM, gdmn852 said:

Penn Brad does have a 30 w oil as a brake in oil that has a higher level of additives

I hope you meant break in oil.😊😊

[gdmn852]

You are correct spell check some time works in reverse 😎

[NTX5467]

Several years ago, there was quite a big deal at www.bobistheoilguy.com over "German Castrol" motor oil, which was green.  About how good it was and such.  BUT that was then and this is now, so I doubt it's still on this side of the water, like it was back then.

 

Who built the engine?  What did they put in it?  How long was the oil in the motor and how many miles/hours of run-time?

 

On the other side of things, replace it with what you desire to run in the engine all the time.  Viscosity, brand, type.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[lancemb]

Mystery solved!  Called the engine builder, and this is what he used and swears by...

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by lancemb (see edit history)

[lancemb]

I also emailed the company and asked them which of their products they recommended for break-in.  Based on their response, which follows, I think I may order something specifically formulated for break-in for the first 500 miles.

 

"Schaeffer’s does not manufacture a break in oil. Schaeffer’s oils are high in zinc and micron moly, both are extremely great anti-wear additives. Depending on how you motor is put together sometimes high quantities of moly can interfere with the rings seating properly. It is recommended that you use another product that does not have the high moly content that Scaheffer’s Oil does during the first 500 miles of your engine. After the 500 miles it is recommended that you change the oil, you can then run 709 - Schaeffer’s Supreme 7000 Synthetic Plus Racing Oil,  is a premium quality high zinc, multi-grade para-synthetic engine oil that is specially formulated to reduce friction and wear, increase engine efficiency and extend engine life in all types of high performance gasoline engines including those that contain flat tappet cams and are turbocharged or supercharge."

[Guest]

16 hours ago, gdmn852 said:

You are correct spell check some time works in reverse 😎

The only thing worse than spell check is "Grammar check".  I had both turned off on my computer until the last upgrade, now I have to find out how to turn them off again.

[NTX5467]

There are TWO types of "break-in".  One is on a new/uncured block.  Where the hot/cold cycles cure the block and all dimensions are "finalized" for the life of the block.  A time when the moving parts "make friends" with each other, too.  As they "wear against each other".  I'm not sure where the "500 miles" comes from in the factory recommendations, though.  In earlier times, it might take several weeks to accumulate that amount of miles, but in more modern times, maybe just 10 days?

 

The OTHER type of "break-in" is on a rebuild/re-ring and bearing situation, starting with a "used" cylinder block casting.  In this case, the machining "does not move" as it might with a "green/uncured" block.  The cylinder wall finish will need to "match" the composition of the piston rings (slicker when a "moly-filled" ring is used.  In this case, "break-in:" is finished when the rings seat, basically.

 

I ran across a very in-depth article on engine machining and "break-in" in a British car magazine, back in the middle 1980s.  When the cylinder walls are "cut" and then honed, when looked at with a powerful microscope, the metal finish is a series of grooves in the metal and "edges" where the metal was displaced during the machining operations.  No matter how well the boring bar bit was dressed or the uniformity of the abrasive on the hone.  It's those jagged edges of the displaced metal that need to be "worn off", in a controlled manner, to leave a much slicker surface for the rings and pistons to live against as they "wear-in" together.

 

IF, by chance, the cylinder block is "over-bored via hone", it might make the final size, BUT those little jagged metal edges can tend to roll over onto themselves, leaving a "faux surface" of sorts.  Might measure out well, but as soon as the wear-in process begins, they can either wear away (increasing the clearances) or flatten out.  NEITHER of which is desired for good long-term durability or oil control.  So . . . bore first, then finish hone ONLY.  NO "hone to size" rather than using a boring bar.

 

ANOTHER side of things is the particular mix of cast iron being use din the cylinder block and/or cylinder heads.  Not all "cast iron" is the same!

 

In this area, Chevy 6-cylinder blocks were "the softest",, as were some of the smaller V-8s.  My machine shop operative used an old boring bar to do his blocks, dressing the bit often.  I could tell by the sound the boring bar was making, if he was doing a Chevy 6-cyl/307 V-8 or a Chevy 350 V-8.  The motor labored a bit more with the 350s.  I also know there were some middle-60s 283 V-8 blocks which had "HB" cast into their front surface, which were "high-nickel" blocks.  But they all needed a .030" over-bore to get to "clean metal" for a completely round cylinder bore, when used and rebuilt.

 

So, quality machine work on a used block, combined with (at least) OEM-spec parts and modern motor oils should yield an engine that will last much longer than the original factory-build ever could, I suspect.

 

Their comment of not using their oils until after the initial run-time is completed is not surprising.  Pretty much the same recommendation that went with the earlier synthetic oils, due to their better lubricity (for want of a better word) compared to non-synthetic oils.  BUT . . . then GM started putting Mobil 1 motor oil in Corvettes from the factory, which made me wonder about those earlier recommendations.  Be that as it may.

 

Thanks for the Shaeffer reply.  Enjoy!

NTX5467