Mark Kikta Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Does anyone have any photos of the the Sector spark and advance lever setup on 1916-1923 6-cyl Buicks? While taking them apart to get the aluminum pieces polished, a couple of springs and friction shoes shot out of the sector spark lever(I Think) and I'm not 100% sure how they all go back together. The parts I need help with are the two friction shoes, two springs and electric horn washer. Hopefully someone has some pictures. Thanks, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I experienced the "shooting shoes" too. I ended up just copying the shoe and spring from the other lever. No photos though. The shoes are "T" shaped and the width is the same as the diameter of the spring hole as a slip fit. The top of the "T" is about 3/8" long if I remember right. I made it out of phenolic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I seem to remember the spring fit into a hole. Take a pic of the parts and I'm sure I'll remember more if I can see them. I had that all apart a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 This is what it looks like for 1925. Not sure how relevant to your model. Each lever has a spring and shoe that provides friction. Hugh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 Morgan, Here are the parts that I need to figure out where they go. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 They look like mine. I'll take pics tomorrow of how they go when I get back out there. Right now I'm waiting for the James/Brad/Ken showdown on Jeopardy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 OK great, Thanks Morgan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) I found this pic in one of my videos. They look a little different than yours but the idea is the same. One has a concave edge that goes along the outside of the sector, the other is convex and goes on the inside. The spring fits down the hole inside the spark or throttle levers, and into the spring housing in the friction units. . . Edited January 7, 2020 by Morgan Wright (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Wise Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Mark. Pics of the spark and throttle levers, showing the holes the springs go into. As Morgan said the friction pad then attaches to the spring and rubs against the arc sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 Awesome, Thanks to you both. I thought they popped out of the center somehow. What a relief, thanks a lot. Mark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 I spoke with Mark a little while ago about the spark and throttle levers. I told him that I seem to remember my Dad saying something about these rub blocks being made out of Soapstone. Can anybody comment on that? To me that seems like a logical material to use in this area. Mark thought that they could be made out of Bakelite. If they are indeed Soapstone, that would lend a little bit of lubricity to the mating surfaces. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Terry, This is a drawing I made of the shoes that came out of my 1925-25. These were Micarta. Hugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Terry Wiegand said: I spoke with Mark a little while ago about the spark and throttle levers. I told him that I seem to remember my Dad saying something about these rub blocks being made out of Soapstone. Can anybody comment on that? To me that seems like a logical material to use in this area. Mark thought that they could be made out of Bakelite. If they are indeed Soapstone, that would lend a little bit of lubricity to the mating surfaces. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Do you want lubricity on the friction pads, or do you want friction? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Sorry I didn't mean to be sarcastic in that last post. I checked out my friction pads today and they are steel. To be sure, I scraped off some filings and they were magnetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Fundamentally it is a brake. So I'd think a phenolic or bakelite would be most likely material Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 42 minutes ago, DonMicheletti said: Fundamentally it is a brake. So I'd think a phenolic or bakelite would be most likely material Mine are steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 I'd think that steel against that pot metal of the quadrant was a poor combination. The expensive part wears out. Of the 3 that I have taken apart, none were steel. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 Yes mine are some non magnetic material that feels like bakelite or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 4 hours ago, DonMicheletti said: I'd think that steel against that pot metal of the quadrant was a poor combination. The expensive part wears out. Of the 3 that I have taken apart, none were steel. OK I went back and tested again, and it's not steel. The file I used was very fine and made dust particles which were so small they stuck to the magnet via static electricity. Today I used a rougher file and made bigger filings, which DO NOT stick to the magnet. It's a metal though, not bakelite. It might be pot metal. Here are some pics: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 Today while waiting to get my throttle sector back from being polished, I decided to pull the shafts for them out from the steering column to clean and grease. Seemed like the old grease was a graphite grease so that’s what I put back in. I cleaned both shafts with brake clean and re-greased them with synthetic graphite grease. I used a steel rod with paper towels taped to it to grease the inside parts. I also took this time to strip the steering wheel so I can re-stain it. That’s is some tuff stuff to take off whatever it is that’s on that wheel. I stripped it five times and all that is left are some black spots that are impossible to remove 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 The original grease was probably graphite powder mixed with vaseline, that was extremely common to use in those days. People who restore old Victrolas still use it to grease the drive spring in the can. It's just common knowledge and traditional among Victrola restorers, because it's what Thomas Edison used on everything. http://victrolagramophones.proboards.com/thread/1200/columbia-grafonola-advice-needed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Here is a new old stock steering wheel on my car, to get an idea of what the finished product should look like. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 Wow. NOS!! thanks a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Here are a couple photos I took today of my steering wheel today. I painted the spokes with a single stage acrylic enamel with a hardener. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 In my quest to try to figure out why my wooden steering wheel has so much black in the crevices and grain of the wood, I am beginning to think the steering wheels were painted black on the open cars. If you compare these photos I copied from a very nice Buick brochure of the steering wheels of a touring car and an enclosed car, there does appear to be a real difference in finish. I know they are black and white photos, but you can see a real difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 My original wheel was wood and had no paint on it. You can see it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Milewski Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Mark - pic of my 23-6-48 steering wheel, wood and black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 Wow, sure enough.....thanks Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Jim Milewski said: Mark - pic of my 23-6-48 steering wheel, wood and black But the center spokes are not. There must have been different options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 I just found clearer pics of my original steering wheel. No black paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 No Black paint on those for sure. Maybe they made changes by 1922/23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 BenP, Thank you for that interesting analysis. The moisture theory is certainly possible.. The 1922 wheels had the little bumps to aid in gripping on the underneath of the wheel vs on the inside of the wheel like they were in the teens. Also the 20s wheels seemed to have small ridges on the top side to aid in gripping where the wheels from the teens looked smooth on top. What didn't make sense with my paint theory was the fact that the bumps were all black covered and shiny with whatever substance it was. I had to sand them all to get it off. Looked as thought they were worn between them over the years. I would have thought that if it was paint that was worn, the bumps would have worn first, not the space between them. I'm starting to think I should just stain the wheel with a dark stain and be done with it. Then use a gloss poly on top. Plus the wood is very hard and not very pretty in grain etc. Seems very gray like it may be walnut or something 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Kikta Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 BenP By the way that family photo is priceless!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I'd sand it some more so the natural wood starts to show. Get that black stuff (decomposed varnish) out of the grain. Then stain it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibarlaw Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Ben, the car in your photo probably traveled up a long dusty road to be there. The dark green and black wheels on my 1925 did not look green or black after a short drive thru a dusty field to park at a local Steam and gas show. Tires too also were no longer black. Fenders and all were the color of, well.... dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I love this group!!! So much knowledge and willingness to help others, again I love it. i have wondered what my 1927 Standard steering wheel “spokes” were supposed to be finish wise?? They almost look like worn nickel to me, can anyone confirm what my car should have? i appreciate it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) In 1925, the Standard touring steering wheel spokes were black. Hugh Edited January 16, 2020 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyfamily Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Hubert_25-25 said: In 1925, I thought the Standard touring steering wheel spokes were black, and they were polished aluminum on the closed cars. Hugh Providing we don’t get the planned snow or rain Sunday I’ll be out in the car Sunday and will try a little of my magic polish on the spokes and report..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert_25-25 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 The 1925 Standard parts book only lists 1 steering wheel 182365, so they were all black spokes in 1925. The 1927 steering wheel is a different number. The parts book looks like the spokes are not black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 On 1/14/2020 at 11:01 AM, Jim Milewski said: Mark - pic of my 23-6-48 steering wheel, wood and black because somebody recently painted it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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