1932 Cadillac 355 Convertible Coupe Update!

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, daniel boeve said:

The car sold for 61.000 $ plus commision on BAT yesterday .The only thing i missed was seeing a adult person next to the car to see how big it was .

 

 

That is a lot of car for the money. Since it's an auction, you can't say great deal.............but it is a strong indication of the current market. And it's going to take a while for people to realize what their car is actually worth.

 

[alsancle]

Considering how those of us that pee on most of the cars we see for sale loved it,  and it was available for a long time publicly,  and BAT has a huge following:  61k for a nice eight cylinder 32 Caddy is retail.

[edinmass]

51 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Considering how those of us that pee on most of the cars we see for sale loved it,  and it was available for a long time publicly,  and BAT has a huge following:  61k for a nice eight cylinder 32 Caddy is retail.

 

 

Please phrase it correctly........

 

A 1932 Cadillac Fleetwood Cabriolet, very nice older restoration. Runs and drives well. Needing clean up but should be a fantastic tour car. Rare in the very definition sense of the word. A fun car to be proud of, and have instant fun, all for less than the cost of the chrome bill from twenty years ago. Cars like this are going to redefine the collecting hobby......and I have seen this many times in the last 12 months.....just not in public sales. Hang on to your asses boys..........it's going to be a bumpy ride to the bottom on cars that are not in the top two percent. This Cadillac is a "three percent" car.

[Ovalrace25]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

Please phrase it correctly........

 

A 1932 Cadillac Fleetwood Cabriolet, very nice older restoration. Runs and drives well. Needing clean up but should be a fantastic tour car. Rare in the very definition sense of the word. A fun car to be proud of, and have instant fun, all for less than the cost of the chrome bill from twenty years ago. Cars like this are going to redefine the collecting hobby......and I have seen this many times in the last 12 months.....just not in public sales. Hang on to your asses boys..........it's going to be a bumpy ride to the bottom on cars that are not in the top two percent. This Cadillac is a "three percent" car.

Ed, this is a Fisher body and all Cadillac publications refer to it as a "Convertible Coupe" it is listed this way in The Standard Catalog of American Cars as well. I AGREE that it is a cabriolet and I prefer that description, but not to confuse or explain away to the Cadillac folks that want correct information, I let it go as published and as written on the build sheet.

FYI- to all: Had I not been the person that posted it on the BAT auction sight, I certainly would have bought it myself for what was paid. I was not the owner, just the person that got it ready for sale and tried to get it out there for the owner. I did see the other one that sold for less, but looking at the photos of that car, it was ready for a complete restoration. There were much higher offers before the pandemic came along. As we all now, now with the shut down of the entire world, things are vastly different. We must all hope for better times!

This car was done in a very professional manner with copious notes. although time has passed since it was done, the car has not been driven, but had been inactive for many years. 

[edinmass]

Thanks for the info........in 29-31 all open cars were Fleetwood, if my memory is correct. It’s a great car......

[Cadillac Fan]

$64k with the commission seems like a fair deal considering this sold in March fo $84k. 
 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/am20/amelia-island/lots/r0042-1931-cadillac-v-8-convertible-coupe-by-fleetwood/841086

 

 

The market is the market. 
 

 

 

[edinmass]

The 31 was a true 100 point car with zero miles on it, it was perfect. Also a car for free.

[Cadillac Fan]

It will be interesting to see what its big brother does in AZ.  
 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az21/arizona/lots/r0032-1932-cadillac-v-16-convertible-coupe-by-fisher/1016103

 

This is obviously in a different league.  Both are great and rare cars.  
 

 

love the rear mounted spare and don’t care that it is green.  

Edited November 19, 2020 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history)

[Ovalrace25]

3 minutes ago, Cadillac Fan said:

It will be interesting to see what it’s big brother does in AZ.  
 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az21/arizona/lots/r0032-1932-cadillac-v-16-convertible-coupe-by-fisher/1016103

 

This is obviously in a different league.  Both are great and rare cars.  
 

 

love the rear mounted spare and don’t care that it is green.  

YES! -- SAME Fisher body, but longer wheelbase chassis for the V16. And of course the V16 car is a very fresh restoration.. Guesses anyone as to what it will sell for?

[edinmass]

22 minutes ago, Ovalrace25 said:

YES! -- SAME Fisher body, but longer wheelbase chassis for the V16. And of course the V16 car is a very fresh restoration.. Guesses anyone as to what it will sell for?

 

 

I will play name the selling price.............1932 is very rare, and rear mount spare.........I'm not a fan of the single rear, but many are. In a "good" and regular non pandemic market.............425-450 is my best guess. With the change over in Washington, the pandemic, ect..............it's hard to tell. It could go a bit higher or a lot lower. I will say 325 all in. If it were one of the true 32 roadsters I would be at 1.4 large.

[alsancle]

32 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

 

I will play name the selling price.............1932 is very rare, and rear mount spare.........I'm not a fan of the single rear, but many are. In a "good" and regular non pandemic market.............425-450 is my best guess. With the change over in Washington, the pandemic, ect..............it's hard to tell. It could go a bit higher or a lot lower. I will say 325 all in. If it were one of the true 32 roadsters I would be at 1.4 large.

 

I think it might bring 400k all in,  but it will depend on the write up and provenance.   The 600k disparity between cheapest and most expensive you see on 30/31 roadsters is based on the level of "realness" of the car.

[alsancle]

The difference of 6 inches in the hood makes quite an impact.

 

[Cadillac Fan]

52 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

 

I will play name the selling price.............1932 is very rare, and rear mount spare.........I'm not a fan of the single rear, but many are. In a "good" and regular non pandemic market.............425-450 is my best guess. With the change over in Washington, the pandemic, ect..............it's hard to tell. It could go a bit higher or a lot lower. I will say 325 all in. If it were one of the true 32 roadsters I would be at 1.4 large.

all things (condition) being equal, do you think that a real 32 v16 roaster is valued more than a real 30/31 v16 roadster?   If so, is that mainly due to production numbers (scarcity)?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[alsancle]

2 minutes ago, Cadillac Fan said:

all things (condition) being equal, do you think that a real 32 v16 roaster is valued more than a real 30/31 v16 roadster?   If so, is that mainly due to production numbers (scarcity)?

 

The 32 would bring a HUGE premium because they are better looking and much more scarce.   Plus I think there are only 2 real ones.

 

[edinmass]

1 minute ago, alsancle said:

 

The 32 would bring a HUGE premium because they are better looking and much more scarce.   Plus I think there are only 2 real ones.

 

 

 

I placed the value on a 32 V-16 Roadster at 1.4 plus.......up to 1.75, and I would burn my house down to get one.

[Cadillac Fan]

36 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

The 32 would bring a HUGE premium because they are better looking and much more scarce.   Plus I think there are only 2 real ones.

 

I love the painted radiator and headlights and wheel covers and black walls.  

Edited November 19, 2020 by Cadillac Fan (see edit history)

[Cadillac Fan]

Do you consider a 32 roaster (real) the most desirable production v16?  
 

I realize there are no real answers and these are just opinions.  
 

My opinion: 34 v16 convertible coupe. 
 

 

 

[edinmass]

Most desirable factory Fleetwood or Fisher..........1932 Roadster or Sport Phaeton. Then the 30-31’s, and then the 33-34. I think that it’s factual from a dollar value standpoint. Others may disagree...........to me the 33-34 cars are very nice but heavy in design..........

[alsancle]

6 hours ago, edinmass said:

Most desirable factory Fleetwood or Fisher..........1932 Roadster or Sport Phaeton. Then the 30-31’s, and then the 33-34. I think that it’s factual from a dollar value standpoint. Others may disagree...........to me the 33-34 cars are very nice but heavy in design..........

 

Eddy,  the 33-34 bring a lot of money and the made 1/10 as many as 30/31.

[edinmass]

Yes.........but I still think a 32roadster will smoke a 33-34 convertible coupe. Any post 30-31 16 is ten times more rare than the first generation cars..........but a true Roadster is three times the money of a convertible coupe.

[Cadillac Fan]

To me, this is tops, followed by a 30/31 sport phaeton. 

 

 

 

[edinmass]

The 34 is a great car.........and style is certainly subjective. If you took ten guys and went up to the top ten super models, and each guy got to pick a girl to take to dinner........someone ended up with the least attractive girl........yet they are all super models. None of us would toss a 34 V-16 convertible out of our garage.......that said, look at the parking places of the current REAL cars.........if the 34 was the best Cadillac.......you would expect to see them in certain well curated collections.........you see the 32’s in them, and some of the 30-31’s, but most of the 33-34 cars are not in the top five collections that I am aware of..........

 

The 30-31 Sport Phaeton is mechanically a pain in the ass.......once we’ll sorted, and with proper attention, they are fantastic cars for the right type of collector. One of the best things about them is how easy they are to get in and out of, front or rear. They are quite simply the most comfortable touring cars there are to own.......

Edited November 22, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Ovalrace25]

15 hours ago, edinmass said:

The 34 is a great car.........and style is certainly subjective. If you took ten guys and went up to the top ten super models, and each guy got to pick a girl to take to dinner........someone ended up with the least attractive girl........yet they are all super models. None of us would toss a 34 V-16 convertible out of our garage.......that said, look at the parking places of the current REAL cars.........if the 34 was the best Cadillac.......you would expect to see them in certain well curated collections.........you see the 32’s in them, and some of the 30-31’s, but most of the 33-34 cars are not in the top five collections that I am aware of..........

 

The 30-31 Sport Phaeton is mechanically a pain in the ass.......once we’ll sorted, and with proper attention, they are fantastic cars for the right type of collector. One of the best things about them is how easy they are to get in and out of, front or rear. They are quite simply the most comfortable touring cars there are to own.......

Ed, I have a 1929 Sport Phaeton that I hope to start the restoration on this winter. I did a complete restoration on a 1929 Roadster 341B several years ago. Actually got some help from you for that one. Would like to have my car be a 1930 only to have a mechanical fuel pump rather than the Stewart vacuum and I like the Fleetwood body slightly more than my Fisher.

 

Here is a picture of the 29 roadster I restored several years ago.    

[trimacar]

That ‘29 used to be a two tone green, and was owned by John “Buddy” Walton from New Orleans from the 1960’s until it was sold decades later.  Car was pulled out of a field along the coast in Louisiana and restored by him.  My ‘31 Pierce phaeton was it’s stablemate for decades, owned by John’s best friend and touring buddy.  Both cars were driven on tours for tens of thousands of miles, and never trailered.  The story of the car can be found in the Classic Car book of the Survivor series, Rasmutten is author I think.....

 

Great car.  I preferred the two tone green over current colors, but that’s probably just because I was with the car so much when I was touring in the South...and being from Louisiana, was good friends with owners....

 

In fact, that ‘29 Cadillac is a reason I own the Pierce.  On a tour at Avery Island in the mid 1980’s, I was talking to Buddy about buying the Cadillac, as I was looking for open Classics and he’d mentioned then he might sell it (it didn’t sell until after he died).  Buddy told me “David, you don’t want the Cadillac, you want Drew’s Pierce”.  Well, yes, but it’s not for sale.  “He’s under that tree over there, go talk to him, he’ll sell you the car”.  Five minutes later I owned my dream Pierce!

[Ovalrace25]

Yes, The 29 was Waltons car and it got plenty of mention in books. Colors were not what the build sheet said. Paint was coming of in big chinks and during the restoration work, I found a red shop rag and bondo used to cover a big rust hole in the gas tank apron. Also had a poorly repaired engine block that had oil seeping through. Probably a couple reasons why Buddy steered you to the other car. Original build sheet gave us the colors. But because the Sports Phaeton was also to be done, the colors for the Phaeton were used on the roadster. At the time we decided to do it this way and because there was a Fleetwood body cabriolet pictured in the 1928/9 Cadillac factory sales books. Just before the car was sold, I repainted the wheels to green to soften the color combination. "Problem" with colors on a Cadillac is the original record is available. With Packard or others, no records so it is open to do what you want.

Believe me, I have had the cooler be an issue when on the show field. "They never made them this color" was a very loud statement by a judge at one event. I showed him the book and on the cover where it states "500 color combinations, 50 body styles" -- His reply was, "this car in the picture has a different hood! You car has the wrong hood!" ---  SO, my replay was, the car pictures is a FLEETWOOD BODY, this roadster you are looking at is a FISHER body. That was the day I decided to become a judge and also later do judge training!

 

Here is a photo of the page in the book I used.

[Ovalrace25]

BTW-- YES, the sales book is a 1929 issue. First year of the 341 models.

 

[Ovalrace25]

Here is the Walton car before the restoration

[trimacar]

Great pictures, thanks, that's how it remains in my memories.  One has to realize that this car was a mess, literally in a field rotting away, and Buddy saved it.  It may have had it's problems, but it was a magnificent vehicle in the '60's and 70's in Louisiana, which was a Classic wasteland. Buddy drove that car all over Louisiana and Texas and other States, and enjoyed every minute of it. 

 

At one time, I owned 6 Pierce Arrows, which were half of that marque registered in the state.  I've owned 12  P-A's altogether, that's another story. I'm sure there were more in the state at the time, of course, but my interest in the big cars was not common in Louisiana.  I was in my 30's and driving and buying the big cars, while a lot of the tours were much more average cars.  Model A's were everywhere.

 

I don't say this as a snob.  I drove everything from a 1929 Chevrolet roadster, 1931 Chevrolet tudor, 1924 Dodge touring and 1925 Dodge coupe, on early Louisiana tours.  I wouldn't trade those days for the world.  Great people, and the purpose was to have fun, not have a show car nor outdo the next guy.  Family events, although back then the rest stops included coolers of beer.  No one got crazy, but to think of what we did back then, and doing it now, makes one's head spin.

 

I coveted the Cadillac, but I coveted the Pierce even more...so here I am..

 

One more story about Buddy.  He had a car I wanted, and it was for sale.  1911 Hupmobile touring, rare though not desirable, but I had and have a 1910 Hupp runabout, so wanted the car.

 

Went to visit him (I'd moved away) and he wanted to sell.  $9000.  I offered him seven and he said no.  Got home, sat down, mailed him a check for $8000 and asked if that worked.  He said no, sent the check back.  Later, I was relating the story to a friend of mine who happened to be a lawyer.  His response was along the lines of "Gawd, you lucky bastard, he could have cashed the check and said it was a gift".  Yeah, I guess, but not in this community of old car people, and he was a man of honor as most of us were back then.  And most of us are now....

[trimacar]

If you've since sold the car hopefully I won't offend you with the following comments.

 

The artist's misconception on the convertible coupe is fine, but doesn't show a bright white as the main body color.  

 

The color scheme that Buddy did on the car (and I hate green cars, by the way), was much more elegant and keeping in the theme of a classy car.  I'd stand next to the car and just feel good, admiring the details.  I just don't think that bright white helps the car, but am sure it seemed right at some point and the new owner enjoys it.

 

[Ovalrace25]

Yeah best I don't comment. But I must say it's not bright white it was a creamy white. And apple green was an original color. That lime green thing look like some hideous thing from the '70s that reminded me of an old shag carpet I used to have. So I as I say I best not comment.

[jcrow]

I agree that the 32 v-16 convertible coupe headed to RM Ariz should price out about $325k to $400k, all in.

 

The RM blog with the description, however suggests a value of $750k to $850k. Seems way over market

for a short wheelbase (as were conv cpes) and the same standard Fisher body used by the 8s and 12s.

 

32's are great cars and they drive much better than the 30/31s with their Johnson carbs and more truck like

suspension. However, many people love the big headlights, flat radiators, and stone guards on the earlier cars.

[Marty Roth]

4 hours ago, trimacar said:

If you've since sold the car hopefully I won't offend you with the following comments.

 

The artist's misconception on the convertible coupe is fine, but doesn't show a bright white as the main body color.  

 

The color scheme that Buddy did on the car (and I hate green cars, by the way), was much more elegant and keeping in the theme of a classy car.  I'd stand next to the car and just feel good, admiring the details.  I just don't think that bright white helps the car, but am sure it seemed right at some point and the new owner enjoys it.

 

 

I had strongly considered buying Buddy Walton's Cadillac, and already owned the spare '29 chassis, fenders, and steering assembly with an eye (but maybe not the budget) toward building a speedster. I recall the Caddy's paint falling off in sheets. I also looked seriously at buying Buddy's '29 Packard 640 Dual Cowl Phaeton, but was aware of a series of problem areas. It went to a couple of tri-five Chevy brothers, and then to another gent who commissioned a full restoration, got a First AACA Junior at Charlotte, and (as I recall) then sold the car.

 

Buddy and another friend once borrowed my Suburban and trailer to take the '29 Caddy to a Cad-LaSalle show in Dallas, TX. Somewhere between Houston and Dallas they saw a trailer wheel pass them, and realized it was familiar. Leaving the 'Burban and trailer at a shop untul they could retrieve it on the return trip. they drove the '29 up and back - no surprise there !

[ericmac]

Ed said "you would expect to see them in certain well curated collections.........you see the 32’s in them, and some of the 30-31’s, but most of the 33-34 cars are not in the top five collections that I am aware of.........."

 

I can't help wondering what would be considered the top 5 collections in the US. Maybe an off line discussion but I am guessing one is close by my neighborhood. 

[edinmass]

12 hours ago, ericmac said:

Ed said "you would expect to see them in certain well curated collections.........you see the 32’s in them, and some of the 30-31’s, but most of the 33-34 cars are not in the top five collections that I am aware of.........."

 

I can't help wondering what would be considered the top 5 collections in the US. Maybe an off line discussion but I am guessing one is close by my neighborhood. 

 

 

That's a phone call conversation. Don't want to "out" anyone who likes their privacy. 

[Ovalrace25]

12 minutes ago, edinmass said:

 

 

That's a phone call conversation. Don't want to "out" anyone who likes their privacy. 

YES! I know there are MANY private collections that are exactly that.. PRIVATE...  Very few folks are privileged to see them and even then NO PHOTOS ALLOWED. A bit unfortunate, but still the rules must be followed when invited to visit. BUT I must also say, too bad that this is a real situation where the "owner" does not share some of the fantastic automobiles in their collection, and even worse, many are not driven or at least privately regularly exercised. I do know of a few that have private roads or large exercise areas where every car is driven on a regular schedule. But many more are static display only. 

 

[John_Mereness]

On 11/19/2020 at 1:30 PM, alsancle said:

The difference of 6 inches in the hood makes quite an impact.

 

It would have been nice for someone to figure out how to correctly install the top boot 

[Ovalrace25]

13 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

It would have been nice for someone to figure out how to correctly install the top boot 

Yes! This happens far to frequently at auctions! You hand over your car to the "experts" who insist on taking it along to the podium. You would think they would get help from folks that really know these cars and not claiming to be a "know it all"

[John_Mereness]

1 minute ago, Ovalrace25 said:

Yes! This happens far to frequently at auctions! You hand over your car to the "experts" who insist on taking it along to the podium. You would think they would get help from folks that really know these cars and not claiming to be a "know it all"

Yep !

[edinmass]

Auctions often used unpaid volunteers, so they often are “want to be” car people. Example.........some were trying to jump start a 100 point 540K and the owner wasn’t around, even though they were instructed to call him to start it. I had to step up and tell them to leave the car alone........which they ignored. Then I got in their face and got them to back up. The car didn’t need a jump, and the owner showed up and started it without issue. NEVER - NEVER  leave your car unattended while at an auction. 

[edinmass]

 And one last note, the auctions make you think that your car is special and they care about it. They couldn’t care less. They’re only interested in numbers, and making money. Dealing with your car is a royal pain in the ass, as is dealing with you. They will say anything, promise you the world, and not deliver. Unfortunately this is not a generalization. Even the best auction companies are a pain in the ass to deal with, unless you’re gonna be buying and selling a lot of cars you will barely get their attention.