AMBU Book on Wiring Diagrams 1917 1918 1919 (now includes later posts by members re R Bosch, American Tech 1922 and Standard Eng 1921)

[Gunsmoke]

Came across this rare resource this week, a hard cover book of wiring diagrams for all automobiles and trucks available in USA in the period 1917-1919, published by AMBU (AMerican BUreau of Engineering) as Wiring Diagrams Volume 3. The 4&1/2 page index appears to list most if not all makes manufactured during those 3 years, starting at the Abbott-Detroit and ending with the Winton Limousine, about 225 pages in total and 200 different diagrams. Along with the usual models, Chevrolet, Ford, Oldsmobile, Buick, Chalmers, Dodge, Franklin, Hudson, Overland, Nash, Packard, Peerless, Studebaker, etc, and the rarer classics like Auburn, Cadillac, Kissel, Marmon, Pierce Arrow, Mercer, and Stutz, there are also makes seldom heard of today, such as Allen, Cole, Cunningham, Dixie Flyer, Glide, Grant, Haynes, Jordan, Maxwell, Moline-Knight, Mitchell, Paige, Regal, Saxon, Stephen, Velie and White. Some references to makers of the systems, Westinghouse, Delco, Remy, U.S.L., Bijur, Autolite, Gray & Davis, Wagner and Disco. 

 

The details in the back of the book indicate this is Vol 3 of 3, and Vol 1 covered vehicles from 1912-14, and Vol 2 covered vehicles from 1915-16. I might be interested in parting with this but have no idea of its value. Any thoughts or interest, send me a PM.

 

NEW UPDATE: Mar 13 2022: Several members have added some wonderful and rare info to this post over past few months introducing several additional sources of electrical diagrams, including from a Robert Bosch Manual, American Technical Society 1922, and the Standard Engineering & Publishing Co, 1921. If asking a follow-up question, make note of the name of the poster so you can get your question answered by the proper source. I've adjusted the topic title to highlight this. Thanks.  

Edited March 13, 2022 by Gunsmoke (see edit history)

[Gunsmoke]

Three more sample pages. If someone is curious if a specific model is in the book, let me know and I will post a picture if it is in here.

[ron hausmann]

Gunsmoke - Please post Kissel 6-cylinder. Thanks

Ron Hausmann P.E.

[1937hd45]

I'm always amazed that some people can understand that stuff. Bob 

[Gunsmoke]

Ron, here are the 3 diagrams for Kissell, the Hundred Point Six 1917, similar one for 1918, and the Kissell 12cyl 1917-1919. Hope these help you out. 

[ron hausmann]

Much appreciated Gunsmoke !!

[hddennis]

Gunsmoke,

I'm always searching for period literature that shows my "late" 1917 Maxwell. Does your book show Early and Late 1917 Maxwell's as different? If so could you show both here?

 

Thanks,

Howard Dennis

[Gunsmoke]

hddennis, for your viewing pleasure, yes, 2 different diagrams for the early and late model Maxwell 25 as seen here. There is also a different diagram for 1918/1919 Model 25's, and one for the Maxwell 1 ton truck. While Simms-Huff appear to be electrical component supplier for the cars, their truck used Autolite components. Cheers.  

[hddennis]

Thanks for the pictures, these are only the second time I've been able to find this information in period books. Found out through a period newspaper article Simms was Maxwell's magneto ignition supplier and mid 1917 they went on strike leaving Maxwell without an ignition system. Luckily Atwater-Kent had just come out with a new system with a modern style distributor coil combination that bolted directly where any magneto had been. This solved Maxwell's problem and was an upgrade all in one.

 

Howard Dennis

[Gunsmoke]

Glad I could help. Books like this one are rare to find in any condition, this one is near pristine.

[Gunsmoke]

Bringing this 3+ year old post forward. Plan to post a few rare wiring diagrams from this 1918-1919 book over next few days. As per opening post, if anyone wants a specific make wiring diagram from 1918-1919, or is interested in this rare book, let me know, $60 plus shipping should be fair. To start, some P models, one for edinmass, PA, Peerless and Packard 12. all 3 have more wiring than most cars of period.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Gunsmoke
added pictures (see edit history)

[Gunsmoke]

Here are 3 likely rare wiring diagrams, Comet, Velie and Glide, I've personally never heard of a Comet.

[Gunsmoke]

Last post for today, Auburn, Cadillac and Case. Cadillac diagram is very busy. Anyone wants a particular car, let me know and I'll see if it's here.

[Michigan Farmer]

Gunsmoke -

I would be interested in the book.  Send me a private message with address.  Media rate is the cheapest way to ship.

 

Thanks, Ron

[edinmass]

Gunsmoke, could you post 1915 and 1916 White cars? I have 17 and later. Interested in historical ignition from the earlier years. Thanks, Ed.

[Gunsmoke]

edinmass, this volume is Vol 3 of the series, and for vehicles 1917, 18 and 19, although some 1916 cars are included primarily where they were unchanged in later years. The only White diagram in my book is for 1917-18, and equipped by Leece-Neville? AMBU Vol 1 in series is 1912-14, and AMBU Vol 2 covers 1915-1916. Books were sold for $3.50 per volume in period, $10.00 for set of 3, and individual diagrams were sold at $0.25! I see the 2 earlier AMBU volumes for 1912-1916 are currently on eBay asking $175. Here is White diagram.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Gunsmoke
added info (see edit history)

[8E45E]

Does that publication also provide sub-diagrams of electric components such as the electric pre-selector as seen in Premiers, and other accessory items?

 

Craig

[Peter R.]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

Gunsmoke, could you post 1915 and 1916 White cars?

According to my records 1913-16 White cars used Entz motor-generators and magneto igintion.

1913-14 models GAE, GEB and GF used Mea magnetos. I haven't found any info yet on the magnetos used on 1915-16 models.

1917-21 models used Leece-Neville starters and generators as well as North-east motor-generators and Eisemann magnetos for ignition. Obviously AMB magnetos (DU-4)  had also been used on 1919-21 models. On trucks the books mention the use of Bosch-Rushmore generators.

[edinmass]

Peter...thanks. In mid 1916 White issued an announcement in trade publications that they were no longer using Bosch because of the war and supply issues, so they went to Eismann for a short time. They were certainly not consistent. White went from 6 volt to 18 volt, to 12 volt all in three years. And there is cross over with extra/left over parts and inventories. White made huge numbers of trucks, but the number of cars was fairly small in the "gas era". I have seen Delco in White cars and trucks that were factory as far as I can tell from 1915 to 1919. The only fixed rule was there are no rules at White during the war years. 

[edinmass]

6 hours ago, Gunsmoke said:

edinmass, this volume is Vol 3 of the series, and for vehicles 1917, 18 and 19, although some 1916 cars are included primarily where they were unchanged in later years. The only White diagram in my book is for 1917-18, and equipped by Leece-Neville? AMBU Vol 1 in series is 1912-14, and AMBU Vol 2 covers 1915-1916. Books were sold for $3.50 per volume in period, $10.00 for set of 3, and individual diagrams were sold at $0.25! I see the 2 earlier AMBU volumes for 1912-1916 are currently on eBay asking $175. Here is White diagram.

 

Thank you, I had that one in my files already.(Except my copy say Eismann magneto.) What is interesting is some show Eismann magnetos, others like yours show nothing. The diagram says 12 volt on the battery but shows a six volt in the diagram. Interesting the starter switch does not call out it is mechanical. I think it's just so early universal nomenclature was not available in diagrams........ on the earlier cars the starter swung into and out of position with a lever on the dash to engage the flywheel......no bendix!

 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

On 8/4/2018 at 1:04 PM, 1937hd45 said:

I'm always amazed that some people can understand that stuff. Bob 

 

Bob, this is primary school stuff. You would not believe the control circuit wiring for the ship I used to work on. 4 Main  Engines , 2 shafts , 2 PTO generators, 1 diesel powered stand by generator, Plus an Emergancy Generator way up at the top of the ship.  Double redundancy load sharing computers and governer control , double redundancy over all power management computers. and preferential trip relays  for all non essential consumers including one of the two 1000 HP eletric power bow props. More wire trays and device cabinets than you can imagine. I did not get involved at the programing level on any of the computers, the fly in guy's did that for the most part. But the " easy " 75 % of it was in my realm. My decision to grab slightly early retirement was partially motivated by the fact all the existing stuff was coming out at a major upgrade and a whole new set up was going to have to be learned. Along with new main engines and a dual fuel diesel/ LNG set up. More electronics than the Space Shuttle.

Edited December 15, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Gunsmoke]

8E45E, the Premier Wiring Diagram only shows basics, no sub systems. here it is.

[Peter R.]

52 minutes ago, edinmass said:

I have seen Delco in White cars and trucks that were factory as far as I can tell from 1915 to 1919.

Ed - Interesting, I have no records on White using Delco equipment.

BTW - Only trucks used North-East equipment (Motor-Generator).

Peter

[Peter R.]

[1937hd45]

35 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

 

Bob, this is primary school stuff. You would not believe the control circuit wiring for the ship I used to work on. 4 Main  Engines , 2 shafts , 2 PTO generators, 1 diesel powered stand by generator, Plus an Emergancy Generator way up at the top of the ship.  Double redundancy load sharing computers and governer control , double redundancy over all power management computers. and preferential trip relays  for all non essential consumers including one of the two 1000 HP eletric power bow props. More wire trays and device cabinets than you can imagine. I did not get involved at the programing level on any of the computers, the fly in guy's did that for the most part. But the " easy " 75 % of it was in my realm. My decision to grab slightly early retirement was partially motivated by the fact all the existing stuff was coming out at a major upgrade and a whole new set up was going to have to be learned. Along with new main engines and a dual fuel diesel/ LNG set up. More electronics than the Space Shuttle.

I'll be 71 next week, and understand less about electricity with every passing day, it was NEVER taught in school. Has anyone ever published a book that introduced children to it at a young age? Thanks for all your posts, have a Merry Christmas, yes, my wife hangs the tree lights. 

 

Bob 

[1912Staver]

4 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

I'll be 71 next week, and understand less about electricity with every passing day, it was NEVER taught in school. Has anyone ever published a book that introduced children to it at a young age? Thanks for all your posts, have a Merry Christmas, yes, my wife hangs the tree lights. 

 

Bob 

My wifes grandfather was a wizz machinist and very good mechanic . Ran his own repair shop for about 20 years , book ended by his 2 stints as a machinist. But anything electrical other than very simple automobile electrical  was simply beyond him. I knew him for about the last decade of his life and lent a test meter on a number of occasions where he was stopped dead in his tracks.

[Gunsmoke]

A couple of rare (to me at least) ones, Phianna (named after owner's daughters Phyllis and Anna) and Harroun (after racer Ray Harroun). I don't know if any Phianna's exist, I understand 2 Harrouns may still be around. 

[Gunsmoke]

Final post for today, a H A L 12 (a Harry A Lozier enterprise) of 1917, don't know if any of these survive.

[1937hd45]

2 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

My wifes grandfather was a wizz machinist and very good mechanic . Ran his own repair shop for about 20 years , book ended by his 2 stints as a machinist. But anything electrical other than very simple automobile electrical  was simply beyond him. I knew him for about the last decade of his life and lent a test meter on a number of occasions where he was stopped dead in his tracks.

The physical and theoretical worlds, that is the way I look at it. Often wonder if the electrical gifted also have a better understanding of religion, and the unknown. 

 

Bob 

[8E45E]

5 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

 

Bob, this is primary school stuff. You would not believe the control circuit wiring for the ship I used to work on. 4 Main  Engines , 2 shafts , 2 PTO generators, 1 diesel powered stand by generator, Plus an Emergancy Generator way up at the top of the ship.  Double redundancy load sharing computers and governer control , double redundancy over all power management computers. and preferential trip relays  for all non essential consumers including one of the two 1000 HP eletric power bow props. More wire trays and device cabinets than you can imagine. I did not get involved at the programing level on any of the computers, the fly in guy's did that for the most part. But the " easy " 75 % of it was in my realm. My decision to grab slightly early retirement was partially motivated by the fact all the existing stuff was coming out at a major upgrade and a whole new set up was going to have to be learned. Along with new main engines and a dual fuel diesel/ LNG set up. More electronics than the Space Shuttle.

Have fun programming a Variable Frequency Drive electric motor for a Progressive Cavity pump.

 

[8E45E]

5 hours ago, Gunsmoke said:

8E45E, the Premier Wiring Diagram only shows basics, no sub systems. here it is.

Thanks for posting that.  The pre-selector wiring might have been beyond the scope of this particular manual, although it appears to cover almost every make of car that was on the market when it was published. I did post the wiring diagram on a different thread a few months ago.

 

[1912Staver]

59 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

Have fun programming a Variable Frequency Drive electric motor for a Progressive Cavity pump.

 

 

That's very similar to what I was working with . All the air handling units of the HVAC system had similar but smaller amperage units. The Bow Props were about the same as what you show but GE breakers, not Eaton.  European rather than North American , Mostly Siemens with a smattering of Telemecanique thrown for variety.  I stayed away from the programing.

Edited December 16, 2021 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[edinmass]

6 hours ago, Peter R. said:

Ed - Interesting, I have no records on White using Delco equipment.

BTW - Only trucks used North-East equipment (Motor-Generator).

Peter

 

I have a White with Delco equipment, but it’s probably a experimental car/platform. 

[Peter R.]

On 12/16/2021 at 4:13 AM, edinmass said:

have a White with Delco equipment, but it’s probably a experimental car/platform. 

Would you have the Delco numbers of the distributor, starter and generator?

[edinmass]

Car is not at my place. Cant get photos for a few weeks. It has a totally different platform than anyone has seen, except for one other car. No distributor........It’s a Delco magneto twin spark dual.....meaning it has two spark plugs per cylinder .......and when on battery the magneto acts as a timer......thus its way out in left field, running a battery coil over ignition to start, and then runs on the magneto when going down the road. The magneto acts as a distributor while cranking. Also, the car has a pressurized fuel tank delivery system.....not gravity, and not a vacuum tank. There is no published information on the wiring diagram, nothing on the ignition system, basically it’s a test platform. I’m still going over it from a functional standpoint......but simply put, there is nothing published on the thing.

 

Since the thing is such an odd ball........it appeals to me even more. 👍

Edited December 17, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Here is the magneto..........it’s set up for eight plugs, look close and you can see the special cap and controls.

[Peter R.]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

Here is the magneto..........it’s set up for eight plugs, look close and you can see the special cap and controls.

Two spark dual, quite advanced for the time. Used on big engines and luxury cars. I know these caps. We have reproduced the ZR6 two spark dual (SSK Mercedes).

 

[edinmass]

Looks familiar! The car is reportedly running 82 horse power according to a few people I spoke to. Four valves per cylinder, mono block, T head. With a four speed and fourth is an over drive. Oil bath disk clutch. 
 

Your cap is very well done, impressive! Did you make the rotor also? I would love a spare for my car.......

Edited December 18, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 8/3/2018 at 8:43 PM, Gunsmoke said:

 I might be interested in parting with this but have no idea of its value. 

 

Gunsmoke, please consider donating this to the

AACA Library.  While it could be useful temporarily

on one person's shelf, it will do FAR more good when

it is professionally preserved in an automotive library.

 

They take good care of their items;  items are protected

by cameras and non-destructive fire protection;  and

over the years, it will benefit many, many collectors.

 

[Peter R.]

On 12/18/2021 at 1:42 AM, edinmass said:

Your cap is very well done, impressive! Did you make the rotor also? I would love a spare for my car.......

Thanks Ed. In fact, our cap is the only repro on the market that works.

Yes, we did the rotor too.