Cooling system cleaner

[Mike36]

I would like to hear some thoughts on what you guys consider to be a good cooling system cleaner. I used Prestone heavy duty cleaner, and am unimpressed with the results. Thanks.

[Larry Schramm]

1 hour ago, Mike36 said:

I would like to hear some thoughts on what you guys consider to be a good cooling system cleaner. I used Prestone heavy duty cleaner, and am unimpressed with the results. Thanks.

 

Same experience.

[oldford]

After discussions with the folks at Brassworks, the only cleaner that I will use is white vinegar. They say that is the only thing they recommend. Most cleaners are too aggressive. I should also add that I was cleaning an original 1910 core that showed signs of needing help....

 

Frank

[Stude Light]

I've used TSP (the real tri-sodium phosphate) with good results.  It may be a little aggressive but that is determined by how long you leave it in the system. This is the recommended wash in boiler systems. Dissolve about a cup in a gallon of hot water. Fill system and run to full temperature for some period of time - maybe an hour running hot.  Drain and flush a few times, then refill with your standard coolant.  I've done this with my boiler system and on newer cars.  It really cuts the grease and crud.

Scott

[Joe in Canada]

I use 160 PSI of air with a 100 gal. reserve air tank with a 1/4 air line fitting.

 Air line to the bottom rad outlet with the upper rad hose and cap off.

Fill the rad with water

Open the air and watch the loose scale and dirt come out the top with the water.

Have done this on the older honey comb rads but not sure how the newer tube rads would stand up.

Not recommended for people with high blood pressure!

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

[Real Steel]

The cooling 'system' is made of several components, and they can be made from several different materials.   The system can be contaminated with several types of junk: rust, oil, mineral deposits, etc.   Is it reasonable to expect one type of cleaner to safely clean everything from all different materials?

 

As for cast iron, I know that Oxalic Acid (OA) is very effective at removing rust.  Its environmentally safe (pour it in your yard when you're done), it's inexpensive, it doesn't hurt paint, and it's easy to tune to the concentration that you want.

 

 

[Real Steel]

5 hours ago, Stude Light said:

I've used TSP (the real tri-sodium phosphate) with good results.  It may be a little aggressive but that is determined by how long you leave it in the system. This is the recommended wash in boiler systems. Dissolve about a cup in a gallon of hot water. Fill system and run to full temperature for some period of time - maybe an hour running hot.  Drain and flush a few times, then refill with your standard coolant.  I've done this with my boiler system and on newer cars.  It really cuts the grease and crud.

Scott

 

Where can you get real TSP?  Here in CA it hasn't been available for a long time.  Still available in MI?

[Spinneyhill]

It seems there are at least three problems, maybe more. One is rust in the block giving rise to fine rust flakes that block the radiator.

 

A chelating agent like oxalic acid or citric acid or molasses will take the iron out but it takes a while (can be weeks). There are a number of "radiator cleaners" that are non acid and I suppose are basically chelating agents for iron and perhaps calcium. Our water is high in silicon but I don't know what will remove silicon scale.

 

CLR or other similar aggressive acid will take out scale (calcium etc.) but must be time limited to prevent excessive damage. Any metal not covered by scale will be attacked by the acid.

 

Blockage in the radiator may be taken out by air sparging (fast flowing water with pulsed air under pressure, as described above). It didn't work on mine but then my air flow was probably not great enough and it turned out I wasn't patient enough to keep working on it. You need a big compressor and tank, as described above. Of course, high pressure air on a non-pressure system is pretty risky. With the two or three attempts I made I removed more than a cup of fine "dirt" from the radiator but it was still blocked over a significant triangular area in the bottom. I had the radiator out to do this - it is a messy business. The other way is disassembly and rodding. You may get the top tank back on if you are lucky and the tradesman is good at old radiators.

 

After cleaning, people on these fora have talked of using a stocking foot in the top hose as a particle filter. Every now and again, remove the hose to clean out or replace the stocking.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

It seems there are at least three problems, maybe more. One is rust in the block give rise to fine rust flakes that block the radiator.

 

A chelating agent like oxalic acid or citric acid or molasses will take the iron out but it takes a while. There are a number of "radiator cleaners" that are non acid and I suppose are basically chelating agents for iron and perhaps calcium. Our water is high in silicon but I don't know what will remove silicon scale.

 

CLR or other similar aggressive acid will take out scale (calcium etc.) but must be time limited to prevent excessive damage. Any metal not covered by scale will be attacked by the acid.

 

Blockage in the radiator may be taken out by air sparging (fast flowing water with pulsed air under pressure, as described above). It didn't work on mine but then my air flow was probably not great enough and it turned out I wasn't patient enough to keep working on it. You need a big compressor and tank, as described above. Of course, high pressure air on a non-pressure system is pretty risky. With the two or three attempts I made I removed more than a cup of fine "dirt" from the radiator but it was still blocked over a significant triangular area in the bottom. I had the radiator out to do this - it is a messy business. The other way is disassembly and rodding. You may get the top tank back on if you are lucky and the tradesman is good at old radiators.

 

After cleaning, people on these fora have talked of using a stocking foot in the top hose as a particle filter. Every now and again, remove the hose to clean out or replace the stocking.

 

 

[Stude Light]

6 hours ago, Real Steel said:

 

Where can you get real TSP?  Here in CA it hasn't been available for a long time.  Still available in MI?

Local hardware store here. You just have to read the label. Some are now 50% TSP but still the real deal.

[Mike36]

Thanks for the answers !

[John348]

Every time I had used a cooling system cleaner, I was replacing the water pump the next week. 

[fraso]

I used citric acid to clean my engine.  I did a write-up about it here:  Cooling System

[cahartley]

Any, so called, engine flush that boasts of containing some sort of acid is useless against oily deposits.

Get a bottle of MAC'S engine flush from NAPA.

The active ingredient is stated as "organic compound" which is lye.

I don't know if it's Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium Hydroxide but that's what it takes to remove oil.

Those are the same compounds used to remove oil films in old and new steam boilers.

Many old car and tractor books advise the same thing......a weak solution of Lye.

Flush the system, add clear water and the flushing agent, run the engine for a while being careful to not boil the solution, drain and flush again.

I have left the stuff in the system for as long a week and making only short trips.

I couldn't believe the crap that came out!....... 

 

[Joe in Canada]

 

 

I do have enough air but I still had to repeat this process a dozen times to get it all out so be patient. For the engine you can do the same process and always work in the reverse direction that the coolant normally flowed. I have seen the water gushing out brown on one engine there was so much scale in it. You do not have to worry about air pressure in the engine so crank it up and clean it out. 

  Put some scale in a container of CLR and see how long it takes to dissolve the rust. Then when you come back from your winter vacation see if it is all gone.  

[Guest SaddleRider]

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 2:51 AM, Mike36 said:

I would like to hear some thoughts on what you guys consider to be a good cooling system cleaner......... and am unimpressed with the results. Thanks.

 

You can see from the responses that you aren't the only one "unimpressed".

 

Let's review some basics. 

 

American cars manufactured since the middle of the First World War,  as designed and IF  if properly maintained,  have sufficient cooling capacity so they will not over-heat absent some really weird excess condition.

 

Simple reason.  Auto engineers (most of them)  can read...and they all read the same engineering data set forth so many years ago by the S.A.E. ( Society Of Automotive Engineers).   

 

Yeah..yeah..I know...I still have one....( those canvas water bags that used to be sold all over the place....and yes....my prejudice is they are primarily for Fords built before the early 1950's....!).

 

The problem is - what happens t o our  radiator passages from the passage of time & use.

 

As noted by others in here, they get clogged by all manner of materials, some of which may not respond to any given chemical.

 

My recommendation is that you go ahead and use a cleaner,  which should help clean out SOME of the inevitable junk that is in your engine block.

 

Run it for a while - then flush the block.  Take the radiator out to a responsible radiator shop.   ONLY AFTER  the tanks have been seperated from the radiator core,  and the radiator itself has been subject to a legit "rodding" process will you get the efficiency  designed into your car's cooling system.   

 

And yes...do NOT put the freshly "rodded'" radiator back in, until you first have a good water-filter in line on the "discharge" side of your block.

 

Obviously, there are some radiators that cannot be 'rodded".   I have no answer there,  other than to buy a new "modern"  (meaning after the late 1920's)  TUBE type radiator.  That is,  if you want a cooling system that works as originally designed.

Edited September 29, 2017 by SaddleRider
orangatang (see edit history)

[Mike36]

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL THE ANSWERS !