Studebeggar Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 Looking to get a 1936 model 60 rear end,,thinking putting it under my 36 model 41 to speed it up a bit..anyone done this ?? will it fit correctly ..tnx sc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 I`ve been down this road, nothing fits a 40 series but a 40 series, and the ratio is 4.44to1. The alternative I went with is Lloyd Young who cuts the torque tube and installs a Borg-Warner R-10 overdrive unit. He is in Canal Winchester, Ohio. ph#614 837 7832. He did mine in 2013 cost was $1875 plus shipping both ways. My ring and pinion were shot, so I bought a new set(ring/pinion)on ebay, and all new pinion and carrier bearings from OlCar Bearings, sent it to Lloyd and he assembled everything and installed the OD. Another alternative is a Bendtsen Adapter Kit which fits the Buick inline 8, then you can put a Chevy turbo trans. or 4 or 5spd manual trans and bellhousing/clutch and use a S10 rearend(open drive). The Bendtsen Adapter kit for the Buick inline 8 is in the $1200 range. Bendtsen is located in Andover, Minnesota ph#763 767 4480 Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studebeggar Posted September 30, 2017 Author Share Posted September 30, 2017 Great info ...also need model 41 front end parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 This is what the Hollander shows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Spinneyhill, Can you interpet that data for me? I am curious but have no experience with this since both of my cars are Model 61's. I do know of people with 1937 and 1938 40 Series cars who have swapped to the gears from a 60 Series rear end to solve this problem. I was surprised to see the response indicating that this was not possible in 1936 40 Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 (edited) I don't think this works in 36. I dug into this subject fairly deep about a year ago, and this is what I came up with. In 37 the Special and Century the rear axle is hypoid, instead of spiral bevel on the older cars. This Special and Century rearend shares a design with many later cars. This is why people can put "Century gears" (ring and pinion) in Specials. In 37 the Roadmaster and Limited are spiral bevel and thus the ring and pinion wont interchange with any later stuff. The 36 Century and Roadmaster use a spiral bevel rearend of the same basic design as the 37 Roadmaster. In theory you could exchange ring and pinion between those three. It wouldn't be a huge gear ratio change like putting Century gears in a special. I could never figure out what the 36 Special uses for a ring and pinion, but it may be a design all by itself. The Chevrolet Master / 1/2ton / Pontiac spiral bevel design (35-36 on cars, 35-39 on trucks) is the most obvious possibility. I was never able to make that connection. It seems that it is not similar. I never could nail down the Limited either. It seems to be something all to itself in 1937. It was probably like the 36 Century / 36-37 Roadmaster in 1936. I can't even guess about 38. Please post corrections..... Edited September 30, 2017 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pont35cpe Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 On 9/15/2017 at 9:51 AM, Studebeggar said: Looking to get a 1936 model 60 rear end,,thinking putting it under my 36 model 41 to speed it up a bit..anyone done this ?? will it fit correctly ..tnx sc The 40 series is the small Buick, all the other series are longer and wider which relates to longer torque tube and are probably wider track also. You could call Dave Tacheny, he could explain what is different, he would probably have a 60 series rear end also. His number is 763 427 3460 M-F 4-7 pm central time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Pin. Sh. = pinion shaft. S. Gr. = side gear. These are the gears on the end of the axle. Sp. Pin. = spider pinion. These are the gears on the pinion shaft. So these gears are the differential. They provide the wee gear set that allows one axle to rotate more than the other. The case is, I expect, the case the pinion mounts into and you assemble the differential into then attach it to the axle housing. I did observe the interchanges are all '36 and earlier. Bloo has the explanation for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Oh silly me! The differential is the set of gears that allow for differential rotation of the two drive axles. The rear end is the crown wheel and pinion, which is what you are really asking about. The is what the Hollander says about that. Your guess is as good as mine about what it says. I expect Hy 5306 etc are bearings? Based on this, I would look at what it says about #277 because there are different ratios used there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50jetback Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Previous discussion re same: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nelson Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Just a thought, does the '36' rear use leaf springs? Why not replace the whole rear -tranny to wheels. I have a '37' coupe with a 3.9 gear set up. With that, I am swapping a '54' third member for the original rear (modified with 3.9 ratio). I will be modifying the "37" torque tube by using the back end of the '54' torque tube and welding it onto the '37' front half. Using the '37' complete rear end with the 3.9 ratio, you will have a reasonable speed driving car. The 3.9 ratio will give you about 2700 rpm at 55 mph. I have a detailed sheet on speeds and rpm's. I live in a very busy area and 55 mph will get you run over -- I have a '38' coupe with Lloyds overdrive. That is very nice. When using the OD and standard gearing you get great cruising and minimal mechanical. Details: oldbuickjim@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nelson Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 with the OD and the original ratio of 4.44, you get a final or 3.12 : 1 This way you have a '4' speed system. Nothing changes except that you have an OD unit just forward of the third member. You hook up a cable to the OD to engage or dis-engage the OD and a electrical solenoid. Love my OD. Took it on my club get together a year ago. 1700 miles and got 16.5 mpg driving 60 + mph. Lloyd provides you with every thing. Wire, switches, solenoid, cable. I have many pix of what I did if you go that way. Lots of info about OD on the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studebeggar Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 Great info ..how get a hold of Lloyd for OD ? is it Lloyd Young ? I have R-10 laying around I wonder how hard it would be for a novice to do it myself ? SC.. Big Pine Ca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nelson Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Yup, its Lloyd Young. 614-837-7832. 4915 Lithoplis-Winchester Rd., Canal-Winchester, Ohio. 43110. I had him do mine. The problem with yours is the adapters necessary. He has made up different adapters to work. He rebuilds units he has and guarantees them. He provides a kit of wire, switches, and solenoid (6 or 12 volt). I had the proviledge of watching mine being done. Took lots of pix so i could tell him if there was any problems. The only problems I found was his selection of bearings. He went to a bearing house and they just matched the sizes. They sold him ‘chineese’ mfg. bearings. Bad decision. I owned a bearing shop for over 18 years. Chinese bearings were the lowest quality. I recommended some better brands and got him good ones. I would send him your third member with the torque tube. You will get back a modified drive train with the over drive in place. All you do is bolt it back in place. Then hook up the cable and wiring (very simple wiring) and you are ready to go. I’m a detail geek so i have a set of pix and a write up of what i did to make it work for me. If you want some pix and details, e-mail me and i will show you how i did mine.. “oldbuickjim@gmail.com I took my ‘38’ special coupe on a 1700 mile trip after i got mine together on a club get together. I got 65 mph with 2400 rpm. Great crusing. Treating my engine with care., don’t like anything over 3000 rpm. Straight 8 engines don’t like 3000 + rpm’s unless it quick passing run. JMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nelson Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 I now have a 3.90 ring and pinion set up for sale. Matched set (factory must ). Pulled it from my ‘37’ coupe. I replaced it with a ‘54’ third member (3.41 ratio) to give me a decent road car. I now can travel 65 mph at 2700 rpm. The 3.90 ratio will give you about 60 mph at 2700 rpm. Traffic would not let me go slow, so I swapped and modified the rear to let me keep up with traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Worstell Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Jim....so one car has an overdrive ( and a 4.44 ratio ) and a Century with a 3,41 rear end ? Jack Worstell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Worstell Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Studebeggar you may know that Lloyd passed away recently. I doubt that most people could duplicate Lloyd's efforts ....it's quite a project esp if you don't have an example to work from. I sort of remember that Lloyd used a machine shop in Circleville Ohio to do a lot of the work. If you could find them....you might be able to pull it off. We put one of his ODs in our 1937 Special...it's a terrific improvement. Jack Worstell PS we were at Lloyd's maybe a month or so ago....he had a number of ODs in semi-finished condition. This would help...but a lot of the job is pretty much custom for an individual car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nelson Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Hi Jack, I have been a customer of Lloyds. He installed mine back in 2014. He had a machine shop in Circleville Oh. He had two guys who did his work. The main guy passed away a little over a year ago. Since then, his partner “Glen” was his ‘other machinist. I’ve got pix of Glen and his partner doing my system. Lloyd did not mind if I took pix. So I have a series of shots showing their work. I have been working with a new club member on a method to speed up the old cars back then. I told him of my OD system. Plus and minus. I just finished doing a rear end swap on my ‘37’ coupe.. Changing the third member and modifing the torque tube to fit. That swap is more expensive but easier to use. Looks like and drives like the original car. Anyway, Glen has picked up where Lloyd left off. My friend has delivered his 1938 torque tube with third member to Glen. Glen ssys he should have it completed in about three weeks. Glen has a ‘real’ job so he is a bit slower now. I hope Lloyds sister will let Glen get what ever parts he needs to continue with Lloyds work. Lloyds collection of very nice old cars will be a problem. I hope Lloyd had the titles signed before this. I’ve seen his collection and it is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Worstell Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 Jim........I didn't know that Lloyd had a sister..........I thought he only had a stepson ( who had no interest in the old car hobby at all ).....but I;m a bit hazy on this. You got to know Lloyd far better than I did. I did get a chance to see his car collection ........ terrific. Someone driving past his modest house would be greatly surprised to learn that he had a remarkable car collection stored on his property. I wonder what will happen to the cars ??? Lloyd told us that he planned to auction off all of them this coming August....obviously that is not going to happen. Jim...a suggestion..I think it would be a good thing if you would do a post here on the forum with some conspicuous title and let people know that Lloyd Young ODs are still available. People may not pick up on your comments about this in this middle of this thread. I think there are many ..people who believe that this service...with Lloyd's passing...is lost. Jack Worstell jlwmaster@aol.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nelson Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 A few times I called him and a lady answered - she got Lloyd to the phone. i believe he mentioned that was his sister.. Lloyd’s guarantee’s were golden. Short problem, mine had a bearing starting to go bad. He said bring it to him and he would fix it. I drove two days to his place / shop in Circleville. He met me there and he was amazed where it failed. Anyway, he and Glen tore it down, replaced the whole OD unit and then replaced the input shaft that has the sprocket because it looked worn. Then replaced the drive shaft sprocket for the same reason. So mine was totally rebuilt with NO COST TO ME. I’m sure he paid Glen for his time. I then hit the road to the Buick clubs get together. I really wanted to drive my ‘38’ but time flew. I need to talk to Glen and see if he will pick up at least some of the guys who want OD’s. Then, contact his sister and see what parts Glen can get from Lloyds extensive parts. Lloyd may have mentioned his son but only in passing. You know how familys can get. My first is a ‘38’ coupe that I put an OD in from Lloyd. It has A/C so it is my traveling car. My pretty car that I got last spring, is a ‘37’ coupe also. (I have a thing about coupes). It was picked up from a guy who was restoring it to the factory new condition. He had an accident and died. Went thru several hands and ended up in mine. It has dual sidemounts and new original style white walls. The interior is like new. All interior metal work has been covered to look like wood. A really nice job. It has been painted ‘Sudan Blue’. which an unusual color that Buick had. That car has the modified drive train. I changed the third member over to a ‘54’ centruy with 3.41 : 1 It has kept the looking like factory stock. The guy who started the restoration bought a new 3.90 ring and pinion from Dave Tacheny some years back. Installed it in the coupe. I would say the ring and pinion has a max of 100miles on it. Anyway, e-mail me at oldbuickjim@gmail.com and we can chat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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