1936 Auburn 852 in Salt Lake City

[Dave B.]

This ad surfaced on the Bring-a-Trailer forum. I know nothing about this car, but I thought some of our forum members might like to be aware of the sale.

 

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/cto/d/1936-auburn-boattail-speedster/6284527701.html

[auburnseeker]

That's the kind of one I would like to find.  Looks the part almost all the way around,  but at 1/10th the price.  Too bad I need to build my garage.  I would trade my Cord for it straight up. 

What is the value on one done this way?  Do guys that want replicas want them to be more resto mod or dead on replicas? 

I did email them offering to trade my Cord for it. 

[alsancle]

They don't exactly come out and tell you it is fiberglass.  

[auburnseeker]

Yeah I kind of noticed that.  They did say it had some steel in it.  That would be the tip off.   Of course even if I was interested seriously,  it's 3000 miles from here.  

 

I have seen these things for sale all over the place price wise and quality wise. 

Seems 40-60 is the general range but most look like kits.  Bad upholstery, horrible dashes, and lots of other bad upgrades that don't flow. 

I think I have only seen 2 others for sale done this way.  One was 20 years ago for low 20's,  the other was upper 30's maybe 10 years ago. 

Any thoughts on value for one of these done this way? 

[Matt Harwood]

If it's a fake, it's pretty convincing. Maybe a fiberglass body on an original Auburn chassis? I suspect that they'll get someone who doesn't know what questions to ask grabbing it up after checking the price guides and seeing that even shabby ones are worth $250K.

[alsancle]

The last "cheap" 851 Speedster brought 250k 10 years ago needing a full restoration and missing its original engine/tranny/rear.

 

[auburnseeker]

Thus the reason it would fit the bill as I probably won't have 7 figures at my disposal to buy one.  One in the higher 5 figure range though a copy does have a bit of a temptation to it.   If i didn't need that garage I might be doing some negotiating.  

There was a pink one for sale for a while that was done very similar but better cosmetic condition and supposedly built from an original speedster that the body  was destroyed in a fire.    If you believe that story.  That one I think was for sale last year for 85,000.  I think it sold but don't know for sure. 

[alsancle]

You would be much better of with a real phaeton or coupe or even a sedan.

[Curti]

That is a very early Glenn Pray car.  It IS fiberglass.   Back in the early days, Glenn sold those kit cars with genny speedster frames, correct Lycoming engines and superchargers.  The earlier cars were the most authentic. Some had steel hoods,doors and fenders. 

As time went by Glenn ran out of parts  I spoke with Glenn before he passed away.  He said he thought there were seventeen of them.  The owner sent me those pix a month or two ago. I spent a half hour or so chatting with him. He seemed to be a straight shooter.      

 

[trimacar]

Since I'm the caretaker of a Cord, I follow these replicated cars, and have seen prices going up consistently.  The look of the real thing for a fraction of the cost.  The fact that this is an early Pray car is, to me, a huge plus.  Is it worth that kind of money?  Maybe, maybe not, but I've seen later, less "real", speedsters, go for more.

 

If I weren't car rich and cash poor, I'd be strongly considering it, lots of smiles per gallon there....

[auburnseeker]

Kind of my thoughts as well.  If I didn't have this Cord hanging around I might be a real player.  I guess it could be worse.  Of course when I actually try to find one like this at some point, I won't be able to.   I even like the color combo.  I would lose the red top though.  It is begging for a tan one atleast. 

[auburnseeker]

3 hours ago, Curti said:

That is a very early Glenn Pray car.  It IS fiberglass.   Back in the early days, Glenn sold those kit cars with genny speedster frames, correct Lycoming engines and superchargers.  The earlier cars were the most authentic. Some had steel hoods,doors and fenders. 

As time went by Glenn ran out of parts  I spoke with Glenn before he passed away.  He said he thought there were seventeen of them.  The owner sent me those pix a month or two ago. I spent a half hour or so chatting with him. He seemed to be a straight shooter.      

 

You should of told him what he really needs is a genuine Steel cord phaeton and you just happened to know of a guy with one that might trade.

Edited September 1, 2017 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

8 hours ago, alsancle said:

You would be much better of with a real phaeton or coupe or even a sedan.

You are correct, unless you want a speedster. Great car to put into full service and drive the wheels off. Price is high for what it is. I have seen plastic Fords sell for that money. In the sea of re-popped 32's and Cobra's, you would not hang your head in shame driving that. Just need to know what it is before buying.   

[George Smolinski]

20 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

That's the kind of one I would like to find.  Looks the part almost all the way around,  but at 1/10th the price.  Too bad I need to build my garage.  I would trade my Cord for it straight up. 

What is the value on one done this way?  Do guys that want replicas want them to be more resto mod or dead on replicas? 

I did email them offering to trade my Cord for it. 

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/d/auburn-boattail-speedster/6288588289.html

How about this one?

[George Smolinski]

Or this one?

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/d/1935-auburn-boatail-speedster/6288340093.html

 

I know they're fakes, but still way cool looking, & affordable.

[alsancle]

The history of the cars is important to me so in my case give me a nice factory supercharged sedan, which would probably be a  less money and I would happy.   

 

Also, the car that is the subject of this thread is missing the blower,  which is a 20k problem.  You can't open the hood because everybody will ask you where it went.

[trimacar]

There's a Speedster website for buying and selling the replications, I've followed it for the last few years, and the prices have been slowly creeping up. 

 

The blower issue that Alsancle brings up reminds me of a supercharge Cord phaeton that sold a few years ago in my area.  It seemed like a fair deal, in the low 6 figures.  The new owner had a shop working on it, and found out that the supercharger hanging on the engine was just a shell, with no guts, and the engine was missing the correct components for a supercharged car (such as the correct cam).  As mentioned, this problem, on a Cord, is a 25K problem.

 

I think the Pray name attached to this car helps it, but probably doesn't help it to the price point asked....and, it's the replicated V-8 cars that are easier to drive and service....

[alsancle]

I'm probably low with the 20k. Curt can tell us how much the replica blowers are these days.  Not to mention the install and tune.  And if you want the right carb,  that will be another 4k.

 

As far as Glenn Pray goes,  the one I would want is the 8/10.  That stands on its own as an interesting 1960s attempt at a production car.  The early cars used factory parts from Glenn's stash.   They seem to be available and a 4 speed turbo car is around 30k.

[George Smolinski]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Also, the car that is the subject of this thread is missing the blower,  which is a 20k problem.  You can't open the hood because everybody will ask you where it went.

Would this be the same concern on a Graham Hollywood? I know of one sitting in a barn. Missing the blower, but there is another Graham with the blower that goes with the Hollywood.

[auburnseeker]

As mentioned, it's all in what you want.  I hate the look of 90 maybe 95 percent of the replicas, from the wheels to the crumby cheap interiors with hideous tilt steering wheels and a slew of down right ugly gauges fresh out of a boat.  Not to mention alot of them seem to have the wrong proportions up front.  The grilles sit too low. 

None of my cars are show cars,  though a few are nice enough to be.  My enjoyment is in owning fixing and driving them.  

Yes I have watched Phaetons/ conv't sedans but they for the most part are selling for more than this.    If I was going to go that route I would go with my first choice of the 31-33 Cars.  I really only like hte 35-36 Style in a speedster. 

How much the missing Supercharger hurts the value is hard to say.  It's not an original supercharged Auburn Speedster so it's really hard to say.  The fact that it has functional side pipes is a bonus and not just hung out the hood like most others.   I know my cord is a 36 non supercharged car with pipes.  How much would adding the supercharger to it add to the value?  Probably just the value of the supercharger to be robbed for a supercharged car at a later date.  How much does it  reduce it's value by not having it,  Probably very little since in a matter of seconds you can see it was never a supercharged car right by the vin plate and incorrect speedo.  

If it was close I would probably go look at it,  just to see how well it's done.  

As Trimacar mentioned,   For some reason the values do seem to be creeping up by I would say atleast 10 G in the last few years.   A kind of rough project one seems to sell in the mid 20's. 

I've wondered if one of these would scratch that itch or just make me wish I had bought a real one. 

 

[alsancle]

45 minutes ago, George Smolinski said:

Would this be the same concern on a Graham Hollywood? I know of one sitting in a barn. Missing the blower, but there is another Graham with the blower that goes with the Hollywood.

 

1/2 the Hollywood's were factory supercharged and 1/2 were not.  Also,  nobody ever threw out a Graham blower when they junked a car so they are plentiful and not overly expensive.   A 100% complete setup should not run you more than a grand.  I have maybe 5. 

 

The difference between an 810/812 Cord and an 851/852 Speedster is that the former could be blown or unblown while the latter was always supercharged.   Looking under the hood of a speedster and not seeing the blower would be weird to me.  But 99% of the people at your local show or cruise night won't know any better.

[Curti]

2 hours ago, alsancle said:

I'm probably low with the 20k. Curt can tell us how much the replica blowers are these days.  Not to mention the install and tune.  And if you want the right carb,  that will be another 4k.

 

As far as Glenn Pray goes,  the one I would want is the 8/10.  That stands on its own as an interesting 1960s attempt at a production car.  The early cars used factory parts from Glenn's stash.   They seem to be available and a 4 speed turbo car is around 30k.

The guy never sent me pix of the engine compartment.  A new s/c is around 15-18 grand. BUT there is a lot more involved . Generator, harmonic balancer, chaincase, cam sprocket, s/c timing chain, s/c accessory drive chain, accessory drive unit, s/c drive shaft, flex joints,  EX32 1 3/8 venturi, s/c air cleaner, intake & exhaust manifolds, and a bunch of fittings and fasteners only common to a s/c engine.  I would say 35-40 grand. The good news is,  most of it  is available .

[Xander Wildeisen]

To me the 35-36 Speedsters are one of the most beautiful cars ever built. They are also one of the most flamboyant cars ever built. That is why reproduction speedsters can look a little cheesy if not done right. Like the plastic Ferrari sitting on the Fiero. Tough to fake a masterpiece. 

[Curti]

1 hour ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

To me the 35-36 Speedsters are one of the most beautiful cars ever built. They are also one of the most flamboyant cars ever built. That is why reproduction speedsters can look a little cheesy if not done right. Like the plastic Ferrari sitting on the Fiero. Tough to fake a masterpiece. 

 

Very true !!!  The only reproduction speedster that are real foolers is the Glenn Pray cars.   Some of the early cars have genuine Auburn speedster hoods doors and fenders.   I frequently receive calls from guys seeking parts for their Auburn speedsters.   I ask them 

if the car was built in the in the 30's ?  Oh no I think it was built in the 80's.  I am sorry sir I cannot sell you parts for your power steering.  There is a yellow speedster for sale right now that is sans top.  Three different people have called me inquiring about  buying a top for that car. I have a speedster top,  BUT will it fit a repo car? Probably not !

[George Smolinski]

Curti,

Is it this one? Ad says it's a Glenn Pray.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/d/auburn-boattail-speedster/6288588289.html

[Dynaflash8]

1 hour ago, Curti said:

 

Very true !!!  The only reproduction speedster that are real foolers is the Glenn Pray cars.   Some of the early cars have genuine Auburn speedster hoods doors and fenders.   I frequently receive calls from guys seeking parts for their Auburn speedsters.   I ask them 

if the car was built in the in the 30's ?  Oh no I think it was built in the 80's.  I am sorry sir I cannot sell you parts for your power steering.  There is a yellow speedster for sale right now that is sans top.  Three different people have called me inquiring about  buying a top for that car. I have a speedster top,  BUT will it fit a repo car? Probably not !

     I go back a long way in old car history.  My late friend chased one for years and in while doing, he discovered, I believe, every Auburn that ever existed in the Baltimore, MD area where he lived.  Finally got one, I believe from the Pittsburgh area in the late 1960s.  To help raise the money he sold his restored 1938 Buick Special sidemounted convertible coupe and his pristine, very low mileage 1937 Buick Special convertible coupe.  He had it painted a red color that Auburn used, and the restoration was well on the way. Because of him I wrote a big Auburn history article for ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE Magazine in 1969.  There was a second, smaller sub-article in that issue that told the story of all the cars he had chased and run down over the years since 1946 when he saw his first one parked in front of a Baltimore movie theater.  Over the next 20 years he found and logged detailed information on every 851-852 Auburn speedster that had ever existed in the Baltimore, MD area and many of their previous owners of them as well.      

     Then his son was tragically killed in a boating accident.  He retired, sold his Auburn, and spent about two years in depression. His wife also, for years, took the death very hard. 

     While he had this car another guy kept pestering him to buy it, but when he wouldn't sell, the other guy went out and bought an Auburn (a sedan I guess) and jettisoned the body.  He bought a fiberglass body from somebody, and built his own '35 Speedster on that chassis and engine.  The only thing he couldn't find were rear fenders, so he bought fiberglass rear fenders from somebody.  I suppose it could have been Glen Pray.  The car turned out beautiful and,  by golly, he won an AACA prize with it at a National Meet.  Then somebody ratted on him, and the AACA judges discovered the fiberglass by using a magnet.  He was no longer allowed to show it anymore, so not long after that he sold it. 

     Returning to my friends story.  After about two  years he started getting bored and that cured the depression.  He then went out, found  and bought a second speedster.  It was one of the original Baltimore cars (in and around 1944 there were 3 or 4 speedsters in a loose-knit local Auburn Club in Baltimore).  This car had at one time been modified with headlights in the front fenders and more, while owned by a local bar owner in Baltimore.  One of the original guys from that old 1944 club repurchased it and drove it to his new home in California, using, as I recall being told, 54 quarts of oil.  He put the headlight situation back correct (he also owned a 1932 or 1933 12-cylinder boat tail in California).  Then he brought the car and came back to the Baltimore area for awhile, but he didn't stay.  He stored the car in a garage in a Baltimore suburb and went back to California.  My friend had corresponded with him over the years, as well as with another of the 1944 group (the late Ed Kairis), and found out the car was local.  The owner decided he was never coming back and sold it to my friend. 

     My friend began restoration then on this second car.  By this time I had also retired.  I hauled the Auburn to Georgia on my open trailer (he was with me of course) to have all of the bad wood replaced.  Once replaced, he and I went back to Georgia and picked up the car and brought it back to Maryland.  My friend then had it repainted in Cigarette Cream.  I'm not sure how much further he got with it before he passed away, as I moved out of the area and never was at his garage again after that.

     The last points of interest in this story is that the guy who built the car with the fiberglass body and rear fenders, visited the home frequently after my friend passed away, trying to buy that Auburn, but the daughter did not want it sold, so my friend's wife would never sell it.  Now she has passed away.  Where is it now?  I have no idea.  One final note, the Ed Kairis car was distinctive in that he had put 1937 Buick fender lights on the front fenders (and at one time fender skirts).  I think that car may be one now located in Pittsford, NY, un-restored.  My friend had found another Speedster in southern Maryland mired in the mud in a field.  It had sat beside a '32 Auburn coach for years.  The cars were very rough and the owner was in jail.  My friend could never get that one, but the owner of a Southern Maryland restaurant/night club did get it, and restored it completely, painting it maroon or the Auburn red.  That car ended up in the hands of a well-known New York collector of American Underslung cars.  He eventually sold it, and maybe had re-restored it, and I have no idea where it is today.  As for the '32 Auburn coach in the field....I met a man from Richmond, VA who had a complete 1932 Auburn body, and no chassis.  I told him about the coach and he was able to get it and use the engine and chassis for his boat-tail body.  That car still exists today, and I think it is still in Richmond, VA.  What was that old line, "there is many a story in this naked city" ?

 

[auburnseeker]

2 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

Curti,

Is it this one? Ad says it's a Glenn Pray.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/d/auburn-boattail-speedster/6288588289.html

I could be wrong but that car has the wrong proportions to my eye at the grille shell.  IT's one of the ones that the shell is low on.  Is it just me or am I Correct? 

[alsancle]

Neat stories.  There are still a few unrestored cars floating around.  But complete and real but needing a full resto you are still talking 400k or more.

 

[alsancle]

You can also occasionally find an original engine and blower.  But those are getting pretty scarce too!

 

[auburnseeker]

With 400K plus to buy a project, Thus the interest in a glass recreation that is fairly true to original as opposed to the rest that scream kit car. 

If anyone has an original they want to sell for the price of a kit let me know. 

Also I would welcome any good 31-33 Convertible sedans or even cabriolets. 

[Curti]

3 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

Curti,

Is it this one? Ad says it's a Glenn Pray.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/d/auburn-boattail-speedster/6288588289.html

No it is out west someplace.

[auburnseeker]

You would know best Curti.  Aren't the proportions of the front wrong on ones like the one mentioned above? 

[Curti]

13 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

You would know best Curti.  Aren't the proportions of the front wrong on ones like the one mentioned above? 

 I view all of those fiberglass speedsters the same as a fiberglass 34 Ford three window coupe.  I don't give them a second look.  Most of those repo cars you can spot 100 feet away.

If I have to go and look close it becomes more interesting.

[Curti]

6 hours ago, George Smolinski said:

Curti,

Is it this one? Ad says it's a Glenn Pray.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/d/auburn-boattail-speedster/6288588289.html

This is one of his later cars . It is on a Ford frame.  

[Xander Wildeisen]

One thing I have never figured out is why  the re-popped speedsters are not set up right with track width, tire size and dash pieces. Just because a Ford LTD frame will work, does not mean you should use one. Some of the Cobra repro's are built right, and set right. It seams the Auburn Speedsters Have a lot of funky builds on them. Maybe because the kits leave so much out, that people have to fill in the blanks with missing parts. Some of the finished dashes in repro Speedsters should of had a little more thought put in them.

[Xander Wildeisen]

7 hours ago, alsancle said:

You can also occasionally find an original engine and blower.  But those are getting pretty scarce too!

 

What is going on in that picture? Is that a chunk of the frame turned into an engine stand?

[Xander Wildeisen]

7 hours ago, alsancle said:

Neat stories.  There are still a few unrestored cars floating around.  But complete and real but needing a full resto you are still talking 400k or more.

 

looks like a well organized restoration.

[alsancle]

8 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

looks like a well organized restoration.

 

It came out decent. See attachment.   I don't know if I ever gave the picture to the guy that owns the car now so we should keep it quiet.

 

Here is a link to the Auburn engine story.  It sat under a porch for 60 years.

 

http://home.townisp.com/~alsancle/SuperChargedAuburnEngine.html

 

 

[alsancle]

11 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

One thing I have never figured out is why  the re-popped speedsters are not set up right with track width, tire size and dash pieces. Just because a Ford LTD frame will work, does not mean you should use one. Some of the Cobra repro's are built right, and set right. It seams the Auburn Speedsters Have a lot of funky builds on them. Maybe because the kits leave so much out, that people have to fill in the blanks with missing parts. Some of the finished dashes in repro Speedsters should of had a little more thought put in them.

 

Cost.  An exact facsimile is a lot more money and most people don't care or can't tell.   We have a bunch of detailed oriented elitists here!!! 

 

Randy,   that Cord you have is every bit as cool as any Auburn with the exception of a speedster.   You should focus on that.   Although, I'm well versed in the "next car" paradigm that I think we are all afflicted with.

[auburnseeker]

The trouble with my cord is figuring which direction to go with it.  Rehab and get it running as is with possible questionable engineering or buy the very expensive parts to restore it and put it back correct.  Probably a very long road with little light at the end of the tunnel.  But if I do all the work to get it going as is and then find out it is poorly engineered then all that money and time was in vain and I'm back at square one.  Third option was to trade it off for a running driving or could be made running driving original Auburn.   I know I guess we should all have such worries.  

Right now I got my new tubing bender in so Hudson exhaust is the first priority then get that 40 Ford coupe on the road will be next.    Of course the garage project throws a wrench in the whole works.