Beemon Posted July 21, 2023 Author Share Posted July 21, 2023 Got this thing all taken apart, reading all these rebuild guides... and NAPA no longer stocks the repair seal. Also not sure how people keep the brass tabs from getting chewed up, it looks like I mangled mine. My helper Luna quick work of disposing the old seal. Not sure where it went, surely a mystery for the next tenant. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Luna looks SO not impressed by the Ranco valve. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Looks like Luna has declared it 'dead'... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 11 hours ago, Beemon said: NAPA no longer stocks the repair seal. Never did stock it in the past 20 years...go to store to order. Your "mangle" is typical and no one can rebuild twice. Use a hole saw the diameter of the body of the valve, drill a hole in some wood; the split it to hold valve without deforming it. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted December 25, 2023 Author Share Posted December 25, 2023 Still no ranco valve fix, but I did pull the 59-60 oil filter housing off the block and put the original can back on. I did an oil change and found out that the gasket for the valve covers came loose and is flapping around the valves... so shame on me, these edelbrock valve covers have been nothing but trouble and not worth the headache. Some wise men on here once told me (more than once, many times) to put it back the way it was and keep it that way. I'm older now and still not listening! Why did I put the oil filter can back on? On the trip to Spokane, my oil pressure kept dropping. The adapter for the 364/401 engines puts the filter straight down, but on a 322, the adapter shoots it at a 45 degree angle right under the exhaust manifold. The filter was getting pretty hot, so I figured I might listen to the old guys and put it back the way the engineers intended, out of the hot zone. The mess has never bothered me anyways, every oil change I've ever done gets messy. I'm sure on single exhaust cars, this probably isn't an issue. Anyways, I'll pull the valve covers tomorrow and see if I've got an extra gasket set tomorrow. But at least I can drive Grandpa's Buick to Christmas. Also I have not been driving my other Buick, the original tires finally gave out. I need to swap my studs on, but I'll do that after Christmas. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted May 24 Author Share Posted May 24 I finally did it. The seal arrived today from ebay. It took me a solid while to remember what the hell I did last year. The ranco valve is now sitting in a bowl full of water. I'm not that confident to dump coolant just yet, but so far so good! Up next is to swap out my steering box courtesy of John and then I'm back on the road. 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted May 26 Author Share Posted May 26 I got it all back in. At some point I need to pull the sense bulb out, straighten it and replace the insulation hose on the outside. Man that was a huge PITA trying to get it lined back up in the HVAC hose. Hopefully that seal lasts another 60 years because that was some BS. I think aside from the sense bulb routing, the bowden cable was equally frustrating. Then I found the screw but the cable hold down is no where to be found. It wasn't in my parts bag either, so now it's just sitting in there. Hopefully I can find a replacement like in the lawn mower cable repair section at the hardware store. Got a chance to do a couple laps around the neighborhood as well. Next weekend I'll do the steering box swap I think, gotta find my pitman arm puller and a hose clamp to keep the reservoir from dumping all over. My thoughts is get some inverted flare caps and try to be fast. It was nice to get it out of the garage. Here it is, my Buick next to grandpa's Buick. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Never noticed before, but it looks like Buick was intentionally paying homage to the '56 grille bar with the modern version... 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted May 27 Author Share Posted May 27 It's a really nice design feature, similar to how Buick added port holes in the mid 2010s and brought back the sweep spear. Those cars look ugly though, the Sportback was peak design, I'm really sad they stopped selling them in the states. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 1 Author Share Posted June 1 Okay so I've been having overheating issues. My radiator was flushed, confirmed thermostat working, water pump questionable but it was rebuilt 5 years ago. Symptoms are cooling at speed, but run on heat soak at idle, poor idle, rough running. My first thought was to check timing. I typically lock in at 5 degrees, the timing mark was showing 7. Next I checked dwell, it was sitting at 36. I have a dual point breaker plate so I blocked the secondary points. The primary points were reading 28 degrees, so I set it back to 26 and blocked it off. Then I tried to start the car with the secondary points and it wouldn't. I had to brush the points before it would fire, they measured at 29 so I reset back to 26. Then started again and dwell was 26. With both points unblocked. The car ran perfect with the secondary points blocked so I think there may be some type of short. Regardless, I don't know why I decided to do dual points. All things considered, the the tach never sees above 3200 RPM unless you're pushing some speed on the highway so why bother? Now I need to dig through my parts bin and find a single point breaker plate. I think I might go as far to put my old distributor back in. I originally removed it because it was over advancing, most likely the advance limit or something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Ben, Ben! Just go electronic and be done with it! 😁 Ben 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 1 hour ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said: Ben, Ben! Just go electronic and be done with it! 😁 Get the original distributor back in and functioning first. See whether that has any impact on the overheating or general performance. Once that's done proceed in whatever direction you wish (i.e., mechanical points or electronic). 7 hours ago, Beemon said: Symptoms are cooling at speed, but run on heat soak at idle... That sounds like it could be a low-speed airflow issue to me. Now that timing is set, check belt condition (not glazed or cracked) and tension. Are you running the OE fan? If so, you may want to try an aftermarket flex-fan for comparison. My '38 acts similarly, in that on a hot day once up to temperature (180° F) sitting stopped in traffic the temp will increase to about 190° ~ 195° F until the car starts moving again, when temperature drops quickly. I'm running the OE 4-blade fan, which seems to have a pretty shallow pitch. Does your car have a fan shroud? That would be another thing to try if you want to keep the original fan. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Check the vacuum advance. You have done all you can externally. Adding a different fan etc will only mask the problem. A problem that was not there with your current set up. Start looking internally(water jackets) specifically around the heads. Maybe a good flush. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 4 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said: Ben, Ben! Just go electronic and be done with it! 😁 Ben But not pertronics on an early nail head . Flushing or boiling a radiator does nothing they will need to be roded or replaced the core. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD36 Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) If you have a replacement radiator core is it the “high density” 3 row one? I had replaced mine years ago with the “standard” core and it always ran hot. As a reference the HD one has not overheated but it will run 200 (N on my gauge) to 210 if stuck in traffic after a long highway run. I put it in N or L if that happens. It runs 190-200 at 70mph on a 90 deg day. Still have the HD clutch 6 blade high pitch fan. My timing is set at 8. @JohnD1956 convinced me to seal up all the gaps around the radiator shroud to ensure all air is going across the radiator and AC condenser, which has also helped out more than initially expected. Definitions - Overheated in context to my post above is the radiator blows fluid. Running hot is above the “safe” range line on my gauge which ends at about 220-225. Temp is measured with heat gun (verified NTE 3 degrees accuracy) at the sender in the head. Hope that helps. Edited June 2 by KAD36 (see edit history) 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 4 Author Share Posted June 4 On 6/1/2024 at 4:14 AM, Ben Bruce aka First Born said: Ben, Ben! Just go electronic and be done with it! 😁 Ben I'm good for now, I had two Pertronix units before, and the starter ate them. Stock 4x fan blade Stock fan shroud 3 core recored radiator rodded before Spokane 180 thermostat verified with heat plate Unless the impeller on the water pump is slipping on the shaft, the only thing that appears to be wrong is the timing. I just went through all my stuff and found my original distributor, so I'll start digging into it in the next couple of days. Also anxiously anticipating Brad's sway bar coming in the mail. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 5 Author Share Posted June 5 Brad's sway bar showed up today, but I need to figure out this ignition issue first. I pulled the breaker plate, and nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Nuts are staked, both springs, and the advance snaps open and close. Doesn't seem like anything was amiss there. My spare distributor has no springs. I'd really like to take it apart and weigh the weights in the 65 distributor I have in now and compare it to the 56 weights. This was my spare, does anyone know what the 75 means? Probably lobe profile? My original distributor isn't stamped, but I know it's original because the cam gear has never been removed. There does not appear to be excess play or looseness with the cam lobe. I started reassembling. I'm going on a gamble, because the engine that's in the car was a runner, I stole the NOS Delco Remy condenser. I need to go back and re-wrap the points wire, the braided wire is fraying, but not touching anything. I routed the wires per the shop manual I tested the vacuum advance with a mity-vac, it opens fully at 10 in Hg, and closes at 5 in Hg. I didn't see any mention of this in the shop manual, so I'll assume this is normal. It is fully functional, and holds vacuum. I tried putting the replacement cap on, but it didn't fit in the slot, so I grabbed the NOS one with the copper lugs, and it fit just fine. I have two rotors, one rotor hits 4 of the lugs and is NOS, and the other one is unmarked replacement (NAPA I think), and it doesn't hit. Confirmed same condition on the parts distributor. I wish these things would go together easy. I'm going to try and file a bit of plastic to get the replacement cap to fit, and see if I can get a consistent rotation without contacting lugs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 I'll bet "75" is 7.5 degrees of centrifugal advance (15 crank degrees) but that's just a wild guess. Is there a second number? There might be a second option depending how you assemble it? Or not... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee H Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Here’s the Motor’s data for the distributor. Looks like vacuum is 7.5” to start, and 12” to full. That’s a fairly narrow range in my experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 5 Author Share Posted June 5 7 hours ago, Bloo said: I'll bet "75" is 7.5 degrees of centrifugal advance (15 crank degrees) but that's just a wild guess. Is there a second number? There might be a second option depending how you assemble it? Or not... I didn't remove the mechanical advance retainer, maybe I'll do that tonight. One thing to note, the weight plate is supposed to be installed ridges down against the weights per the shop manual. This one is installed "up" with ridges out. 4 hours ago, Lee H said: Here’s the Motor’s data for the distributor. Looks like vacuum is 7.5” to start, and 12” to full. That’s a fairly narrow range in my experience. That sounds close enough to me. I was trying to watch both the gauge and the advance at the same time, so with human error taken into account I'd say it's spot on. I brought up earlier that the distributor was over advancing. I was looking at the shop manual, and the advance curve in the book also keeps advancing forever, so it seems normal to an extent. No one has a distributor machine anymore, so if the advance weights weigh the same as the 65 distributor, I might put the recurve springs in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 5 Author Share Posted June 5 I went back and looked at that manual. Full advance on that table posted above is wrong per the manual, the manual shows full advance all in at 3500 RPM. 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 (edited) Note the Motor manual quotes distributor degrees and distributor RPM. Double everything (except inches of vacuum). Not every source or manual will tell you which kind of RPM and or degrees they are using, and some even mix them up and don't tell you. On a lot of cars what one expects in *crank rpm and crank degrees* to have something that is about 35 degrees initial + centrifugal advance. The centrifugal starts right above idle and runs quick to 20 or 25, and slow to about 35 or so where it stops. Vacuum advance adds to that and might take it to high 50s all in. Now that assumes an American OHV V8, and is extremely generalized, in other words not good enough to just set a car like that. It is good enough to figure out what kind of degrees they were using in the manual when they don't tell you or mix the types of degrees and RPM. GM used graphs like that for decades. They aren't technically wrong, but obfuscate what should be happening with the timing. Generally speaking, initial timing has to be whatever it has to be to crank well, idle well, etc. Initial plus centrifugal should be optimized for full throttle and only full throttle (best power). Vacuum just brings in more advance for part throttle operation only, to improve throttle response, gas mileage, etc when your foot is not all the way to the floor. It is technically a curve but behaves more like a switch in practice. Part throttle cruise mode - yes or no. Edited June 6 by Bloo (see edit history) 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee H Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 4 hours ago, Bloo said: Note the Motor manual quotes distributor degrees and distributor RPM. Double everything (except inches of vacuum). Not every source or manual will tell you which kind of RPM and or degrees they are using, and some even mix them up and don't tell you. In the mid sixties, Motors began printing that fact at the head of the distributor info, I’ll assume because of widespread confusion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 Yeah that is my mistake, it all makes sense and aligns now. I should do a better job at reading the fine print next time. Thanks for the clarification. After phone call with Willie this afternoon, I'm going to stab it in tomorrow and see if I can get dwell around 29 degrees. That way I can get it out of the garage to swap steering box and then sway bar. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 On 6/5/2024 at 1:40 AM, Beemon said: Brad's sway bar showed up today, but I need to figure out this ignition issue first. I pulled the breaker plate, and nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Nuts are staked, both springs, and the advance snaps open and close. Doesn't seem like anything was amiss there. My spare distributor has no springs. I'd really like to take it apart and weigh the weights in the 65 distributor I have in now and compare it to the 56 weights. This was my spare, does anyone know what the 75 means? Probably lobe profile? My original distributor isn't stamped, but I know it's original because the cam gear has never been removed. There does not appear to be excess play or looseness with the cam lobe. I started reassembling. I'm going on a gamble, because the engine that's in the car was a runner, I stole the NOS Delco Remy condenser. I need to go back and re-wrap the points wire, the braided wire is fraying, but not touching anything. I routed the wires per the shop manual I tested the vacuum advance with a mity-vac, it opens fully at 10 in Hg, and closes at 5 in Hg. I didn't see any mention of this in the shop manual, so I'll assume this is normal. It is fully functional, and holds vacuum. I tried putting the replacement cap on, but it didn't fit in the slot, so I grabbed the NOS one with the copper lugs, and it fit just fine. I have two rotors, one rotor hits 4 of the lugs and is NOS, and the other one is unmarked replacement (NAPA I think), and it doesn't hit. Confirmed same condition on the parts distributor. I wish these things would go together easy. I'm going to try and file a bit of plastic to get the replacement cap to fit, and see if I can get a consistent rotation without contacting lugs. I am sure you did this but if not, remember to put some light oil into that "oil" hole in the points plate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 I found some things after pulling my other cap. Is excess oil under the points normal? And point discoloration? also the cap #1 terminal is black. This is probably the main culprit right here. Regarding the new distributor, the old condenser was bad, i was getting a very beautiful bright blue spark when cranking the engine over. I put the other condenser back in and the spark from opening was more normal looking. I rotated the vacuum advance to the near correct location based on the copper vacuum line and put #1 cable at the terminal facing #1, then chased it around. Without looking at the timing, it started right up without effort and idled. I didn't bother setting the timing because it was good enough for tonight and it was getting late. I'm hoping to drive in tomorrow, so I'll throw the timing light on it tomorrow morning. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 5 hours ago, Beemon said: Is excess oil under the points normal? Check the PCV system. I suspect crankcase pressure would push oil vapor into the distributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted June 7 Author Share Posted June 7 11 hours ago, EmTee said: Check the PCV system. I suspect crankcase pressure would push oil vapor into the distributor. My pcv system only works above 25 mph. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Just now, Beemon said: My pcv system only works above 25 mph. Ha! Ok, I couldn't recall whether you had retrofitted a closed system. Still, there is an oil separator that can get gunked-up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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