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My 1910 Mitchell "parts car" project


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Some days are like that!  But some days e3verything "clicks".  A few years ago, I took an adult Ed. night class on wood working.  I wanted to build a perfect fitting two cylinder wooden coil box that would fit the readily available Model T coils.  No big deal huh....  We I am a metal worker, not a wood worker.  I came up with my measurements, messed around with the set-up to cut finger joints and was ready to give it a try.  The instructor bet me that I would mess up and end up building two, one junk and one keeper.  That comment bugged me!  (I am not used to planning for failure from the start.  I do know that failures do happen however and I know how that goes).  I ended up having lots of fun building the coil box and am very happy to say that I only built one box and it is a keeper.  Now like Mike has said, I have much more confidence with my wood working skills.  Boy am I off the subject of the Mitchell water pump, forgive me.  I am also going to give you a small break in the action and post a picture of the two cylinder coil box I built.  It is ready for the electrical fixtures, switch and mounting hardware.  While you are taking a break from the Mitchell water pump, share your thoughts on the best modern finish to use on the wood before any hardware is installed.  I am thinking Polyurathane.

Al

Pictures by and by.....

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I'm not convinced polyurethane is good. I'd be inclined to use a good spar varnish - like they did to begin with. After its set you can rub it out with rottenstone & linseed oil - again, like they did in period. I think we all tend to fall into thinking that "new" is better... it often isn't. Its just easier.

 

Today I re-made the water outlet tube. One of my bodges yesterday was forgetting to really tighten the tool holder holding the end mill that I bored the hole with. As a result, it ran out so instead of getting a nice 1.125 hole I had 1.140 - not a standard size at all.  I didn't have any of the right tube so I made a piece from aluminum bar.

 

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Turned down to the new OD and the relief cut for the thread.

 

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Then I threaded it...

 

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And checked it with the threading gauge I made a few days ago.

 

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It fits properly. Now it has to be welded in after which I'll machine the offset hole inside so the center and the tube are machined together.

 

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I finished this about 3:00 PM. Next is to make the hole for the inlet tube and that will be a tricky machining so I decided to do something in the office and leave setting that up for tomorrow morning.

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Good For You.  That pump is certainly taking shape!  Joe, here are a few pictures for a diversion for your water pump day.  I need to select a finish and get on with it!  The wood I chose is Red Oak.  I am happy the way this coil box turned out.  Now back to the pump.  Are you going to test run teh pump to make sure of flow with no heat or rubs?

Al

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Nice job Al. I've had a few of them and your's is very convincing. Based on the old ones I've had, I go with a reddish colored stain and varnish.

I'll have to test the pump - just to find out if it works though I haven't given a test stand too much thought yet. I'll have to finish the machining first. I want to make sure it doesn't leak, if nothing else. I think that if it moves water I'm home free and that it won't require the hours of running on a test stand that I've given the oil pump.

 

Polyurethane has too "plastic" a look for me, plus, when it starts to peel there is no touching it up. You have to remove it completely and start over. It's unlikely a dash mounted coil box will see much weather so I doubt it needs a very durable finish.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Today I started on the hole for the inlet tube. First I had to find the exact center, 180 degrees from the register mark I made yesterday.

 

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I also did a test to see how the 1-1/4" end mill did at milling down and only 1/8" deep.

 

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That came out OK, so I set the piece up in the mill and drilled a center hole.

 

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I then drilled a hole so the end mill wouldn't have to cut to the center, put the big end mill in the machine and started milling. It didn't work. The piece slipped...

 

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And the end mill gouged the face of the end plate.

 

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That was rather disappointing. But, it's always wort trying to save the job so I took the piece back to the lathe to see if I could face most of the gouges out. The plate promptly unscrewed from the center which actually was an advantage because I took it off and put it back on front-to-back. This allowed me to face it much more precisely.

 

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I ended up taking about .080 off the face and I only have one small nick in the edge now. This was only possible because I was unable to mill the slot for the center to the depth I'd originally planned so that error made this fix possible. I also turned the center piece down - now that it was unattached this was much easier. Thankfully, there was enough thickness to do this. After turning it, I drilled the hole out larger to make room for a boring tool. I'm going to try to do it with the boring head.

 

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Because I faced off the outside, the hole for the tube and the groove in the back plate no longer align perfectly so I threw caution to the wind and put Locktite on the threads and screwed it back together in alignment. If all this works, I will have to have the welder put a bead around the center piece... I came up to the office for a cup of coffee and to post this - I will have to make something to align the new hole with the boring head and I may let this go until tomorrow when I'm rested.

 

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I guess no one can say I don't share my errors as well!

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Hello Joe!  Man...... aluminum can be a sticky mess to machine sometimes.  Sad to see your torment but thanks for sharing!  Looks like you have a good resolution to your dilemma.  Seems we have to do what we have to do sometimes, and that is your case.  Sleep well and attack again tomorrow.  Persistence will make you the victor.

Al

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I felt for you when I saw that photo! That may be your best lesson yet, for us who are just starting out learning machining. Thanks for showing us the photos. I personally will now be a lot more aware of the power of the milling machine and make sure I fix any work piece to the bed or the vice very securely. I hope everything works out OK in the end.

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Today I continued on with my rescue attempt on the part I nearly destroyed yesterday. first I made this little centering tool.

 

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And used it to center the hole I drilled yesterday directly under the spindle of the mill.

 

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Then I set up the boring head and started taking the hole out. It started at .820 and I have to go out to 1.250.

 

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I took very small cuts, only .025. Since the graduations on the boring head are actual diameter that was only a a .0125 cut but I wanted to put the leas possible strain on the work piece.

I was particularly concerned with the interrupted cut where it puts the groove in. The piece did vibrate a little but by the time I was down to the last two cuts I was starting to feel a tiny bit less tense.

 

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When I'd reached the finished diameter, I put a small flat on the plate. A fitting will screw on here and I thought it would be a good idea to give it a flat base to screw against.

 

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All in all, it came out pretty good although this was a nerve wracking job..

 

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I put a piece of aluminum tubing in the lathe for the inlet but aluminum tubing is not all that precise. The outside is usually a little big and the inside a little small. It isn't really round either. I made the piece up and tried it but by the time I'd made it round it was a little small. I'm going to make the tube from solid bar - that way I'll get the dimensions I want and, as luck would have it, the bar (that I ordered a few days ago) came in just before we closed up for the day.

 

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So, aside from the fact that one plate is .080 thinner than the other, it looks as if I've managed to save the part. I'll make the inlet tube and the fitting that goes on it and then take everything to the welder on Monday (I hope).

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I was going to make the water inlet tube today but I started thinking about it and decided to make the fitting that screws on to it instead.  I'll have to thread the tube and if I made the fitting first I can fit the threads that much more precisely. I started with a piece of 1-1/2 across the flats brass, faced it off and put a center hole in it using my tiny 3-jaw chuck. The hole in the chuck isn't big enough to drill through so I had to move over to the drill press.

 

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I drilled and reamed to 1". The finished size is 1-1/8 but I don't have an expanding arbor in that size and I need to turn both ends of this.

 

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Then back in the lathe to turn the ends.

 

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There are two different ODs, one for the threaded portion and the other for the copper water tube.

 

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With that done, I could indicate the round portion and bore it for the 1-1/8 reamer - not having a drill the right size.

 

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I then reamed it. 1-1/8 is the OD of 1" copper tubing.

 

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The tubing fit perfectly. My next problem was threading the other side and I was concerned that if I threaded it and soldered the tube in afterwards I ran the rist of having some of the solder get into the threads so I soldered the tube in first.

 

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Then bored it, removing all of the copper at the bottom end. Copper is miserable stuff to machine so I was relieved that this worked well. I used a sharp carbide boring bar (I rarely use carbide) and took light cuts. It bored better than I'd expected.

 

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When I had the right dimension I threaded it in the lathe.

 

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So... here's the finished fitting. Nothing went wrong with this job - a rare occurrence for me.

 

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If all goes well I'll make the matching water tube tomorrow and take the pieces to the welder on Monday.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I had - for me, a short day today. I made the water inlet tube from a bar of 1-1/2" aluminum.

 

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Drilled and reamed to 1"

 

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Then threaded for the fitting I made yesterday.

 

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This is how it goes together...

 

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It looks as if I can visit the welder tomorrow.

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I dropped the parts off with the welder this morning so now I'm at loose ends until they come back. I was able to work on another fix though.

The holes in the seal retainers don't fit my spanner perfectly. Rather than make them over, I though I'd try to take them out a bit although there is very little room to work with. The original holes were 1/8" so I bought this 4mm end mill. 1/8 is 3.17 mm so the difference is very small. Fortunately, the shank of the end mill just fit in a 1/4" collet - only because the collet has enough spring to close up tight.

 

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I actually lined this up by eye since my measurements weren't perfect the first time. I just need to open up the hole a tiny big but not hit the minor diameter of the thread.

In any case, it worked...

 

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Then I screwed one of the retainers into the plate that is still here and put it in the lathe to trim off flush with the surface.

 

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All this seems to have worked reasonably well. The holes in the retainers will have to be lapped so they are just a tiny bit bigger than 3/4" so as not to rub on the water pump shaft but I didn't want to do that until I'd fit them.

 

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While I'm waiting for the welding to come back I though I'd make a start on the impeller. I don't actually know the final dimensions so I'm making this big in all of them. Pattern making is not my strong point - if you want to see some really good patterns, look up Terry Harper's posts. First I made the hub...this is a piece of scrap oak and "'m drilling a 3/4 hole with a Forstner bit.

 

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Then turned round to 1-1/2 "

 

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Milling slots to hold the vanes in the end plate of the impeller.

 

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Then drilling the center to 1-1/2" to accept the hub.

 

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And glued together.

 

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I was going to let the glue dry overnight but, in for a penny, in for a pound...

I planed another piece of scrap for the vanes.

 

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And glued those in too.

 

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Tomorrow, when the glue is dry I'll try reducing the thickness of the end plate and truing up the outside diameter. I need to get some bondo to make the fillets at the base of the vanes and some rattle can primer to paint it with. The smoother the pattern the better it will come out of the sand and the smoother the casting.

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Looking good Joe! You are correct  - the smoother the better!  I usually seal with shellac, steel wool, prime, sand and finish coat. Also, don't forget draft and machining allowance. 

2-3 degrees works well. Durham's Water putty works well for fillets too. If you really want to get fancy freeman's Supply offers

traditional wax and leather fillets.

 

Here is a rather crappy representation of your pattern with draft.

 

 

 

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Edited by Terry Harper (see edit history)
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I got the welding back today. The bead is heavier than I'd hoped for but I'm told he had some problems with oil from the machining. It occurs to me that I have enough material to work with that I could grind the welds into a fillet. That would actually look better than a tiny bead. Does anyone here have experience using a Dremel tool on aluminum? The rule of thump in surface grinding is that you use a soft stone with hard materials and a hard stone with soft materials so I'm wondering what the best thing to get is. I can get ceramis "ball" grinding stones that look as if they do it but I thought it a good idea to ask first.

 

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I milled a slot in the fixture to accommodate the outlet tube.

 

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And then centered the piece to get the center of the fixture so I could make a register mark to line the center of the pump up with.

 

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And then set up the boring head. It was 4:30 by the time this was done so I'm leaving the boring for tomorrow.

 

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Hi

As a suggestion you can use a ball nose end mill to radius (5/16 dia?or to suit) the weld fillets Most can be done by mounting the item to a rotary table The fillet around the pipe section can be milled by using a dividing head Make sure you have the milling head on an angle to the work to see the end mill in contact with the fillet( not vertical to the work). Most ball end mill cutters are two fluted With Al the more flutes the better If you can only get two flutes take light cuts  Regards Len

 

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Joe, When I made the alloy rim sections to weld between the spokes on the 1899 Perks & Birch motor wheel tricycle, where they were missing, I had them TIG welded. Because the welder was welding new aluminium, into old cast aluminium, the welding was not perfect. I used dental drills in my Dremel type tool to carefully remove the excess weld. I had bought some stones for grinding aluminium but found that 'burr' worked better than the grinding stones.

 

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These are photos after welding, using the burrs, and before polishing.

 

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Ebay should have them.  They look like a dremel bit but have a small ball at the end that has little cutting blades.  They are not a standard diameter shaft so you would need a tool that has an expanding collet that can clamp down on it.  Used them all the time when I was a machinist for the military. 

Wave-Dental-Operative-Bur-Tungsten-Carbide-HP-Round-Straight-Taper-Fissure thumbnail 6

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These are the ones I 'scrounged' off my dentist. They fit in one of the collets that came with my Clarke 'Dremel' tool.

 

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These I bought at the same time I bought my engraver. I think they are diamond coated. I have not tried them yet. These came from Amazon.

 

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Sorry about the photo quality. In the lid of my small grinding wheel box you can see some small milling type cutters that fit into the Dremel type tools. I hope the above is of help.

 

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From memory the hardest part was holding the Dremel tool firmly so the tool did not skid off onto the good part. One thing I forgot to mention was; because of the inclusions in the welded 'old aluminium' metal I used low melting point aluminium with a brazing torch to fill in any 'dents and pits'.

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Thanks Mike. I will file that away for future reference. How did it work? I read some not very complimentary reviews on the web but I am often skeptical of those. People who don't read the directions, or attempt repairs that are unrealistic often run to the internet to complain so I always take comments with a grain of salt.

 

I've ordered some round grinding stones and, as Laughing Coyote suggested, a couple of HSS cutters. I'll probably tackle the welds while the impeller is being cast.

 

 

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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It was a few years ago that I used it last. I remember that I first bought some special aluminium filler that worked fine, (I think it was resin and aluminium powder) , apart from the colour being different to the aluminium, that I was trying to fill. I wasn't looking for strength, just to fill a few small divots for aesthetics. It was then that I found out about low temperature repair rods at a vintage motorcycle show. There was a guy doing a demo with the 'stuff' and I was impressed with what he was achieving with it, so I bought some.

 

I used my brazing hearth and was surprised how much heat was needed to get the aluminium up to temperature before the rods melted into the 'divots'. As you say - many don't RTFI (read the f***ing instructions) and practise on a bit of scrap alloy first.

 

Looking at the photos of the welding I must admit I was expecting it to look better than it does. It maybe the thickness of the material that was the problem. As I have only done a tiny bit of aluminium, gas and TIG welding, many years ago, and only on thin sheet aluminium of the same thickness, I am not qualified to criticise.

 

Below is a photo of the special aluminium filler after polishing. You can see what I mean about the colour.

 

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The welds are thicker than I'd expected too but (to put the best possible twist to this) there is now material to make a real fillet. I was resolved to live with the welding bead if it was small although it wouldn't look right. Cleaning up the weld, if it goes well, will look much better. Also, the weld now obscures a gouge from the near disaster that I couldn't get out completely so if all goes well it will be that much better a job.

 

I've tried gas welding aluminum, not very successfully so I'm not prepared to second guess the man who did it. I'd thought of making the entire pump out of bronze, in which case I could have soldered all the joints but the cost of materials - for a part I don't even know if it will work - was prohibitive. Maybe some time in the future I'll make another one but I'm going to see this one through to the end in any case. I'm learning stuff as I go here so even an error isn't wasted.

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I started boring the center of the pump yesterday morning and only finished it about 3:00 PM today. Of course, no sooner was I half done I though of a better way to do it. But, by then it was set up and working so I kept on with it. I was getting a vibration in the table of the mill I didn't like so I ended up taking small cuts which really drew the job out. Were it not that I've so much work in this one piece, I might have taken a chance and been more aggressive but I tend to come down on the side of "it's working no matter how long it takes." Here's the hole taken out to round...

 

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And after hours tending the machine, about as big as I dare make it. I completely failed to calculate the maximum size I could bore so all the time I was doing this I was worried that I'd have to improvise another boring bar to finish. In the end, that wasn't necessary but you can see how extended the boring head is.

 

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Aside from a nasty burr on the back side, it came out fine.

 

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There is enough room on this side to use an O-ring as a gasket if I want to. I'll have to test it and see what works best.

 

 

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Having decided that my wooden impeller pattern wouldn't do, I started making an aluminum one. This has the advantage of being much more precise...it's more work but I'm not really equipped for fussy woodworking and find I'm more comfortable with metal. The first step was the "base plate". In this case, the diameter is too big because that was the only piece of suitable metal available.

 

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Bored to the hole size for a 1-1/4-20 thread.

 

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And tapped. This is the tap I bought to make the water fittings so it's come in handy.

 

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Then the hub of the impeller...bored and reamed to 3/4"

 

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Then turned down to 1-1/2 with the end turned for the 1-1/4 thread.

 

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After threading, the base plate screwed on.

 

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Since it was nice and secure on the mandrel, I turned it down to 4-1/8"

 

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Then put it in the chuck to reduce the thickness.

 

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It's now about 1/2" thick. Finished size is 3/8" but now I will cut the slots for the vanes. I'll cut them on the side facing out, then unscrew the piece and turn it around.

 

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Work continued today on the impeller pattern.  I set the piece up in the mil to cut slots for the blades. Obviously they go on the other side of this piece but the idea is to use the center to hold it and to turn the piece over when it's done.

 

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With that done, I made a second slotted plate. This will serve as a clamp to hold the blades securely while I turn the OD down. The piece is something I made as a fixture - and at this point I can't even remember what it was for.

 

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Here it is screwed onto the hub the correct way. I had to turn down one end so the clamp would slip on - the projection it makes will serve to help indicate the casting.

 

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The next step is cut corresponding slots in the hub so the blades are held on 3 sides when I turn it.

The additional holes are for the 3 bolts that will clamp everything together. I'll have to fill the holes in the pattern after this is done.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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Putting slots in the hub of the impeller. These are needed because I want the blades to be perfectly straight.I haven't quite figured out how to put any draft (i.e. taper) on the blades which  you would want to do to make it easier to pull the pattern out of the sand. I'm hoping that they can mold it without the draft but that requires that the blades be perfectly straight and it will still be tricky getting it out of the sand. They have done something like this for me before so It's likely possible if finicky.

 

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They are very close but not absolutely perfect... it will require hand fitting the blades.

 

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I cut those from a piece of 3/16 x 1-1/2 aluminum flat stock and milled one edge square.

 

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And also discovered that while the stock is a nominal 3/16 it is actually a bit thicker. Not much and it would make no difference in most circumstances but fitting them into the slots requires I thin each one down. I did the first one rubbing it on a piece of 100 grit sandpaper. It worked but it's very time consuming. Tomorrow I'll get so 60 grit to see if I can't hurry it along.

 

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when I get it close I finish up with 220. Whatever scratches there are will have no effect on the casting, especially if I paint it when done. I also bought some Bondo to make the fillets. Real pattern makers use wax but I don't have any and don't feel like waiting to get some - that is if the Bondo works. If it doesn't, I'll have to go for the wax. I also got the Dremel cutters I ordered to clean up the welds but that can wait until I send this out.

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I fit the other blades today. This took a little doing because the slots don't line up exactly but, since this is a pattern rather than the finished part it wasn't a deal breaker. Then I set it up in the lathe with the clamp attached. This is to keep the blades straight, and make sure they don't come out, when turning it.

 

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four of the blades are actually a press fit. Two of them were a little loose so I glued them in.

 

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Now I have to fill the hole in the center and provide a way to pull it out of the sand. Not having a piece of 3/4 aluminum rod, I turned one down from 1"

 

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With some luck, I may actually finish this tomorrow.

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I finished the plug by putting a 3/8-16 threaded hole in one end. This is for the screw that will be used to pull the pattern out of the sand.

 

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The plug pressed in...

 

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And then the whole piece faced off again to get it flat. It's still about 1/8" thick but that is to allow for machining the casting.

 

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Next I tried to make the fillets at the base of the blades. I bought some Bondo for this - I've used it before on wooden pattern - and made a filleting tool by gluing a ball bearing to a piece of aluminum rod.

 

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It didn't work. The Bondo is too soft and hardens too fast. Lacking a better way to proceed, I decided to make the upper water connection. First I drilled and reamed a piece of hexagonal brass bar.

 

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Then turned one end down to 1-1/8".

 

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I have a 1-1/8 collet (an unusual size) that I used to hole the piece while I turned the other end to 1-3/8". then I knocked the corners off the hexagonal section...

 

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And soldered in a sort piece of copper tube.

 

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It went back in the lathe using the collet, and I bored it 1.080 for a 1-1/8-20 thread.

 

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Then threaded it with a tap.

 

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This worked fine but the threads on the water pump didn't quite match. They were too tight so I was compelled to lap the threads in. It was extra work but it fits just fine.

 

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Then, I decided to try something else with the impeller. I bought so JB Weld "Steel Stick" putty. This is the first time I've used one of their products. I have an  irrational dislike for JB Weld, probably brought on by the way it's so often used to make rubbish repairs, but I tried it in any case. It worked reasonably well...

 

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After letting it set, I sanded it. I'm not 100% thrilled with the result but when all the fillets are done I'll paint it with sanding primer and maybe even using some glazing putty on it. I realize this is a bit much for a water pump impeller that no one will ever see but this is more a matter of working out a good technique. I have a number of cast parts I intend to make and those will be visible so before I get to them I'd like to have an idea how to go about it.

 

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Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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I filled the corners of the other 5 vanes today. The filler goop does not shape all that well but I used a polished piece of 1/2" aluminum rod to press in the fillet so it would be uniform. I had to spray a little WD40 on the rod to keep it from sticking to the goop. That seemed to work reasonably well.

 

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Then I sanded them to get them reasonably smooth and sprayed a little rattle-can sanding primer on them.

 

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Tomorrow I'll try some glazing putty to see if I can eliminate the edges. The foundry likes the patterns painted as they come out of the sand better so even though it's made of aluminum, it will be black when it's done.

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I worked on the pattern this weekend... not very successfully. The glazing putty was a poor idea. It took too long to dry because it was too thick. I did sand it down but ultimately used bondo to fill the flaws. That worked reasonably well. It is, after all, a pattern. I want it as smooth as I can get it but a glass-like finish isn't needed. I finished it up today and dropped it off at the foundry. They will spray it with lacquer to keep the sand from sticking to the bondo.

 

 

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I will say that making this pattern has been useful. I have other parts I'll have cast and I need to get better at pattern making.

I then decided to tackle the welds and see if I could improve them. It wasn't easy. Its very difficult to control the Dremel tool and I still haven't been able to find a cutter with the radius I want. That said, I don't think there is any question that it looks a lot better with the welds reduced to a fillet.

 

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The only problem is that this took most of the day. I'm going to see if I can find something more effective for grinding the fillets. The HSS burr I bought worked very well but it only has a 5/16 radius and I need closer to 1/2". 1/2" grinding stones clogged up almost immediately. In the end, I did all the finish work by had with 100 grit sandpaper. Tedious but it's hard to take off too much metal.

Edited by JV Puleo (see edit history)
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