JV Puleo Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) Yes...I was going to say I'll bet it isn't thermostatically controlled. Before the adoption of the thermostat calculating water flow and radiator capacity was very complicated, made more so because no matter what they did they couldn't control the ambient temperature. The usual "fix" was to make it cool adequately on a very hot day which means that on most days they ran cold. I'm not even going to try to do those calculations...I'm just going to incorporate a thermostat. After I posted the pictures of the test rig I looked around for another sheave. I finally took one off my small drill press. The motor has a 4" sheave and now the pump has an 8" sheave. It's a 1725 RPM motor so before it was probably running at close to 2000 RPMs which is probably the absolute maximum of this engine. With the 8" sheave the speed is closer to 860 - probably 30 MPH. At that speed it was a lot better. Its still moving a considerable volume of water. I don't think there is any danger in making the pump smaller. This water was coming out under a measurable (If I had a way to measure it) pressure. Edited August 14, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 13, 2019 Author Share Posted August 13, 2019 Terry... those restrictions in the water lines were calculated, at least in part, on the capacity and flow rate of the radiator. I'm guessing that unless you use a radiator with the same specifications as the original, they won't work as intended. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Below is a photo of the middle T-fitting for the lower water manifold. They bored the casting for the OD of the pipe clear through, soldered it in place than punched a hole the wall of the pipe for the outlet - so much for precision! Did your Mitchell have any fittings sized like these? Unfortunately for me the original radiator is a beast! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 I had no water lines at all - which is why I had to make all that stuff up. I will say that if there was a cheesy way to do things, that's the way the Mitchell Lewis Company did them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Was Mitchell-Lewis always like that Joe or was it a product of trying to compete? Did quality improve with the later products or did it keep sliding? I hear a lot of references to the marketing disaster of the "Drunken" Mitchell but I can't help think that there was an underlying root cause such as lack of quality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) This just a guess but, as far as I can see, the problem came with the 1910 season. The market for expensive cars was saturated for the time being. Mitchell had been selling for about $2500, putting it on the high end of inexpensive or the low end of expensive but that market had temporarily dried up. The only large, untapped market was in the $1,000 to $1,500 range so they built a car to meet that price point but, in order to keep it in line with their previous cars, it had to be a reasonably large car. It looks as if the the engine is the worst part. although there were shortcuts taken with the chassis I suspect much of that was bought out (although they didn't admit that). The company was undercapitalized so they didn't have the financial strength to survive a bad selling season - the problem that eventually killed them. This engine was only manufactured in 1910 and 1911. I suspect it was always a headache...certainly they went for a complete redesign after only two years of production. The saving grace is that the design is quite pedestrian with nothing particularly unusual and the really cheap materials like pot metal hadn't been invented yet. The savings came from the fit and finish which is very "slapdash" at best... It sold for about $1,250-$1,300 and didn't come with headlights or a top...(those were extra). Edited August 14, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) There is an excellent book titled America Adopts the Automobile that gives a good insight into the business dynamic of the first ten years of the 20th century. It isn't a "car book" in the sense it talks about the technical specifications of models but it provides insights that I've found nowhere else. I suspect it was written as a doctoral dissertation. [EDIT] Author is James J. Flink, published by the MIT Press. I looked it up on Bookfinder.com The cheapest I could find was 2.98 so there isn't much excuse for not reading it if you're at all interested in the history of the automobile in America. Edited August 14, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 When I knocked the test stand down this morning I discovered I'd forgotten to put the o-ring seal in one side of the pump. It still had only a very minor leak so I guess that part of my design is working well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 I started on the "improved" water pump today. As much as I don't like doing things over its wort noting that the second time around is always much easier. You already know what the problems are so you can avoid them. The first step was to make the smaller of the two hubs. Drilled, reamed and turned to size and then threaded. With that done, I started the plate it attaches to... bored out to 1.702 (the hole size for the 1/3/4-20 thread) and then threaded. If this design works out, I will be reducing the outside diameter by 7/8" but the diameter and height of the impeller by only 1/4". That's still bigger than the original water pump and based on the circulation I got from the first pump I am confident it will be adequate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Quote There is an excellent book titled America Adopts the Automobile that gives a good insight into the business dynamic of the first ten years of the 20th century. Hello Joe, I found an online edition: https://simson.net/ref/1970/Fink_America_Adopts_the_Automobile_Car_Registrations.pdf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 15, 2019 Author Share Posted August 15, 2019 I don't know what that is but it's only 33 pages of a 200 page book. It may also be a copyright violation since the book was published in 1970. If they put the entire text on line without the permission of the copyright holder is is clearly a violation. Off hand, I don't know if the copyright belongs to the author or the publisher, it could be either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) The front plate assembled. I then started on the water inlet hub. I used my 20TPI to thread it. 1-3/4-20 isn't a real size but these parts aren't intended to ever come apart. This is just a way of getting around making a complicated casting. I faced and bored the inlet side plate to 2.70 - the size for the thread. It was a little fussy fitting and, in the end, I had to lap it slightly to eliminate some burrs but it went together OK. The inlet side getting faced to 1/2" thick. Both plates with their hubs... The small hub was quite a bit too long. I must have remembered one of the dimensions incorrectly so I cut that one down to 1". I also discovered that the roller thrust bearings I intend to use were, in fact, available at the time but weren't used much because they were very expensive. While making one of these isn't the work of a day or two, the second one is going much faster and, so far at least, coming out better. Edited August 16, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 17, 2019 Author Share Posted August 17, 2019 (edited) I also reduced the height of the input side hub. this is still .100 long but I don't think I'll take off the extra metal until the hole for the input tube is bored. I now have to put in the slots that will position the central body of the pump. These are 3/16" thick and have to be arranged so that the inside diameter is 4/1/4". The math is simple but for some reason it took me some time to decide what the right way to figure it was. I was doing that last night and it is another good example of why I shouldn't do that sort of thing when I'm tired. The last time I got the number wrong. I was able to compensate by making the body fit the slots but this time I want to get it right. Then, I wanted to follow Spinnyhill's suggestion and recheck it another way... so I painted on a little Dychem and scratched the surface. I calculated what this measurement should be and set my dial vernier to that, then check it against the scratch marks. It was right on, or close enough so that it won't make a difference. I went out today to look at a lathe for a member of the Practical Machinist forum so it was almost 4 PM before I finished setting this up and decided to let milling the slots wait until tomorrow. Edited August 17, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 I milled the slots in the end plates. I'm trying to make these without taking them apart to insure that all the machined surfaces are true with each other. The slots are very slightly more than 1/8" deep. I got very close to the dimension I want so I now have to make the center section. for this I need to turn the OD to match the boring fixture I made and the ID to match the inside diameter of slots. I made the end plates first because I couldn't be certain I'd get that measurement perfect. I didn't so the ID of the tube is going to be about .020 larger than my drawing specified. To do this I put the big chuck on so I could hold the tube securely. The aluminum tubing isn't perfectly round and it took about .015 to get the low spots out. All that was anticipated...so I was pleased when it went ii had a nice surface and into the fixture. This time around I'm going to make this piece quite thick and mill flutes in it for the cap screws. This is all an attempt to make the pump look more like a finished and well thought out part as well as reduce the outside diameter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 Boring the center of the pump out to 4-1/4". I had to get this measurement just right because it serves as one of the surfaces that go into the slots in the end plate and if I got it even slightly too small it wouldn't go together. the piece that goes into the end plate. The slots are .135 deep and the tab is .125 allowing .010 extra space should I want to put a little bead of silicone gasket sealer in there. The actual seal for the pump are on the inside surface so the major function of this tab is positioning the center in relation to the end plates. And, it fit well. It's a little tight but I'll lap it to get the surfaces smooth. Now I have to turn it around and do the other end. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) Having fitted one end plate, I turned the piece around, indicated it and cut off the ring of tubing that had held it in the chuck while I bored the inside and turned the outside. Then turned the relief for the other end plate. The fit was just a little tight, which is what I wanted. To remove the inevitable burrs I lapped the end plates to the center section of the pump. This is what it is supposed to look like. The diameter of the center piece is identical to the first pump but the end plates are 3/4" smaller in diameter. With that done I went on to the center portion of the pump. Drilled as large as I can. Tomorrow I'll bore and ream this hole to 2", the size of the largest expanding arbor I have. Edited August 20, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Looking good Joe! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 I think I'm my severest critic but so far this job has gone very well... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 The center bored and reamed to 2" In the course of doing the previous pump I noticed that the aluminum can get quite hot and slip on the expanding arbor. Usually it isn't much and hardly effects the diameter but when facing it can cause an uneven surface. The answer is to to put a spacer behind it so it can't move back. Usually I use some spacers from one of my horizontal mill arbors but I don't have a 2" arbor so I used the only thing I could find around the shop, a piece of 2" ID aluminum tubing, reamed and the ends faced off to make them square. I don't have a saw suitable for cutting this piece down so I took the easy, albeit time consuming route of turning it down. It is now about .035 too thick but I'm leaving the final cuts for tomorrow when the piece has cooled off. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 This morning I finished off the inside piece of the pump, taking the thickness down to the number I calculated and turning the OD to match the housing. I was aiming for a press fit but came up about .001 short so I'll have to use the Locktite glue again. But, I need both end plates. The input side was in the mill set up to drill a center hole exactly in the middle ow where the slot will go. The last time I used a center cutting end mill. It worked but I think it deflected slightly so I'm thinking that if I drill a hole to the finished depth I can plunge the end mill in without the deflection. It's just a guess...but worth trying. I also put a very shallow groove in the center piece. This is for the Locktite. I'm hoping it will grip but not gravitate to the ends. With all that done I assembled the pieces with these square profile O-rings. I believe they are hydraulic seals. In any case, if the measurements are correct they should give much more sealing surface than a round O-ring. With everything assembled I put the pump in my home-made hydraulic press. The idea here is to make certain that the center of the pump is in exactly the right place so that both seals are in contact with the surfaces. The Locktite takes 72 hours to set up so I can't do anything to the center of the pump until Sunday at the earliest. In the meantime I decided to make a stop for my big drill press. This will go around the quill and allow me to set a reasonably precise depth - something I cant do at present. I made one of these for the small drill press and it has worked well. I've been putting off making one for the big press but I need to be able to drill that pilot hole for the end mill precisely. I faced it, reamed it and turned the OK and then discovered I had a problem. The hole in the center has to be 2.630. That is larger than the hole in the center of either of my chucks so I can't bore through. I decided to set a stop on the lathe and bore it 1/4" short...when I have the ID correct I'll turn the piece around and cut off the bit on the end. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 Hello Joe, You are sure doing everything in a very analytical method. Your larger water pump, hang on to it as your next project may need a larger capacity water pump and you will have one built and on the shelve. I do notice that most of your lathe tooling is of the older "rocker" style. Good for you! I have some quick change for the South Bend, but the old Lodge and Shipley 16" uses the old rocker style tooling which I like using as well as the quick change stuff. Work is nice for quick change, if your project has several processes that can be dropped in one after another to save time. Keep up the good work! Looking forward, when are you going to attach the Con rods? Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share Posted August 23, 2019 My feeling is that with this one-off stuff the quick change tool post is of marginal use - if at all. That's especially true when you realize that my lathe is too slow to make much use of carbide so I'd have to make a whole new set of HSS tooling. It simply isn't worth the effort. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luv2Wrench Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 I never could get the lantern tool post and rocker to work for me, I had to go to the QCTP. I think machine work is an interesting reflection of one's patience. The ability of Joe to get what he gets done using what he uses is, I think, a reflection of his patience... as my inability is a reflection of my lack of patience. In addition, I believe the improvements I've made over the years are a direct reflection of my ability to become more patient. Reading Joe's post and, in a sense, watching him work through problems has been very helpful for my machining growth. I sure couldn't have gotten this far without it and I think I can go a lot further as well. Can't wait to get back on the Metz!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share Posted August 23, 2019 After I finished boring I flipped the piece around to remove the end. Leaving me with a ring. Before I can finish this I needed to finish drilling the holes for the through bolts in the pump end plates since the mill was already set up for this. Just about the first thing I did was make a mistake and move the rotary table 206 degrees rather than 216 degrees. It's not a deal breaker but it is annoying, Now I'll have to think of a way to plug the hole which, thankfully, doesn't go through. Then over to the drill press to drill through with a #25 drill. I then removed the top plate... and tapped the holes in the bottom plate. The top plate was then drilled for clearance. And the moment of truth...I found some 10-24 machine screws and put the two pieces together. Aside from my early goof, it worked better than it had a right to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 9 hours ago, alsfarms said: Hello Joe, You are sure doing everything in a very analytical method. Your larger water pump, hang on to it as your next project may need a larger capacity water pump and you will have one built and on the shelve. I do notice that most of your lathe tooling is of the older "rocker" style. Good for you! I have some quick change for the South Bend, but the old Lodge and Shipley 16" uses the old rocker style tooling which I like using as well as the quick change stuff. Work is nice for quick change, if your project has several processes that can be dropped in one after another to save time. Keep up the good work! Looking forward, when are you going to attach the Con rods? Al I don't think there will be a next project, at least not one on this level. I maintain a vague desire to get a mid to late 20s sedan, preferably a Franklin or a Cadillac (because I'll never be able to afford another RR) but first there will have to be a marked improvement in my financial position and I'll have to build a garage. Combined with all the other irons I have in different fires even this project is an indulgence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 13 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said: Reading Joe's post and, in a sense, watching him work through problems has been very helpful for my machining growth. I sure couldn't have gotten this far without it and I think I can go a lot further as well. I whole heartily agree with those comments. Joe's posts have been a great help to me too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 I think anyone who even dabbles with machining is helped by Joes posts. Those who do more than the average home shop machinist really appreciate joes work and can relate to the time and the mental effort alone to do what he does. Catching one of his tricks or short cuts (of course I mean both in a positive way) and using on our own projects, learning something new is what it’s all about. Problem is with all our duly deservered praise, I heard joe needs to Purchase some larger hats for this upcoming winter!😂 (he actually made some comments to that effect) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 Cut it out guys! The whole purpose of this thread is to demonstrate that seemingly insoluble problems can be solved with patience and ingenuity. You've all demonstrated the same in your restoration threads. I just happen to like doing machine work and have been lucky enough to be able to gather the tools. Every enthusiast likely has his own talents and we've much to learn from each other. It's the practice of sharing our techniques so we can all excel at what we do that makes this a worthwhile exercise. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 This morning I worked on the center of the pump in order to give it a trial assembly. First I drilled center holes for the two brass machine screws that will lock the center in place. Then over to the drill press where I have clearance for the tap. And back on the mill to mill flutes in the ring. This is a 1/4" ball end cutter, slightly larger than the diameter of the cap screws to allow for clearance. I was very tense doing this but it worked without a hitch. The ends attached perfectly so I can now go on to finish the center section. I'm debating using the socket head screws. If I don't, I'll polish the heads and give them a slight crown so they look like the type that was available in 1910-1912. I have a couple of those from one of my machines to copy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 26, 2019 Author Share Posted August 26, 2019 Today I put the center of the pump back in the lathe and bored it out to 3". This is to minimize the amount I'll have to remove with the boring head and so that I can see the bottom end of the hole for the outlet tube while working on it. It then went into the mill to bore the hole for the outlet tube. The first step was to use a center cutting end mill to get a flat surface. Then it was center drilled... And drilled through. Even if the end mills are center cutting, they work better if they don't have to cut in the center. Then I went through the hole with progressively larger end mills and discovered I'd made error in my calculations. The center section is 1.062 thick. I had planned to put a 1" hole in here but that would leave only .031 as a wall thickness and if I was off a little on the centering - which is entirely possible - I could easily ruin the piece. I decided to make a stepped outlet tube, 1" at the top and 7/8" at the bottom. The wall thickness of the lower part of the tube will only be 1/16" but that is inconsequential since it will be permanently embedded in the center section. You can see here how little wall thickness I had left. When I took it out of the mill and measured it I found I could have gotten away with the 1" hole but I wasn't prepared to take a chance on ruining it at this stage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 This time around are you going to screw the pipe into the side of the pump body, rather than have it welded? The more I get into machining the more admiration I have for machinists. I am finding it much harder than carrying out bodywork, electrical and mechanical repairs. It certainly gets the old grey brain matter working overtime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 I considered that and may still do it but I was also going to look into a place in East Providence called "microweld". I have a friend who had them weld some very fussy - and tiny lock parts for a British shotgun. They specialize in die repair. But not that you mention it, screwing them in might be easier for me. j 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 I am no expert, but the problem I see with aluminium welding is you need a lot of heat as the aluminium conducts the heat so quickly and this I assume makes the weld bead wider than with steel. Looking at their website, Microweld have been around for over half a century, so they sound if they are worth talking to about the pump welding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 That was a good idea. I had though about screwing the tube in but couldn't see how I could start the tap and don't want the threads on the end to show, which they would on a round piece. But, you got me thinking. Since the hole is counterbored, if I make the lower piece a little smaller the threads will disappear. The lower hole is about .885 and this is within .001 of the size for a 15/16-20 thread. Until I looked, I'd no idea if such a tap was readily available but it turns out it is so I've ordered one. I even paid extra to get it sent from a US seller because I don't want to wait a month for it to come from Hong Kong. Making the tube will be more complicated but that is lathe work and I only run the risk of ruining that part - before it goes in - if I make an error. I will still have to weld in the inlet tube but that one is fairly straight forward and there is no critically tight area to worry about. jp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) After I ordered the tap I made this fixture to center the pump in the mill when I bore the offset hole. The hole in the center is 1". I will align that with a piece of 1" stock in an end mill holder, then replace the holser with the boring head. I also made a guide to align the hole in the center with the tap. It has to be straight and, since the piece is round, that isn't all that easy to do. I'll thread it in the drill press using a piece of 1/2" bar to align the hole. I started on the outlet tube as well but can't finish it until the tap arrives. Edited August 28, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 28, 2019 Author Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) This will be the outlet tube. It's fairly complicated but if it works it will be a major improvement - and save me having to worry about the welding. Turned in 3 steps... 1" where it projects from the pump, 15/16 where I will thread it and .877 for the area below the thread. I only plan to thread it about 1/2". I also did the other end. I can't thread it until the 15/16 tap arrives and I can make a threading gauge. I'm going to leave it on the mandrel until the threading is finished. Having gone as far as I could with that, I went back to the depth stop for the drill press. The slot is 1-3/8" wide but I don't have an end mill that size so I did it with a 1" end mill. Then over to the drill press to make holes for the soft-tip set screws. It came out pretty good - certainly good enough for this sort of work. I then set up the inlet end of the pump to drill. The hole is about .020 short which isn't a problem. In fact, I'd have done that on purpose if I had thought of it. Tomorrow I can mill the slot for the water inlet...then maybe the hole for the inlet tube. Edited August 28, 2019 by JV Puleo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Sorry Joe, another question. How does that mandrel work to hold the outlet tube? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 The hole is reamed so it is very accurate. The mandrel has a very slight taper. It's pressed in with an arbor press so it is friction only. This is the most accurate way to hold something for turning but it depends on very accurate surfaces to begin with. I also have "expansion mandrels: which can be used if the hole isn't perfectly sized. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 Today I milled the water inlet slot. I'm not happy with the finish. I still have a lot to learn about milling deep slots (it's 1-1/2" deep) in aluminum but thankfully it doesn't show and won't have any effect on how it works. I no sooner finished that and the 15/16-20 tap came in so I set it up in the drill press. The alignment tool I made yesterday (or the day before) worked perfectly. I was concerned about this because the hole is about .005 too small but it didn't seem to make a difference, probably because aluminum is so soft. You can't really see them here but the threads look to be perfectly centered. Then back to the inlet plate. The next operation is to make the hole for the inlet tube. It is 1-1/4" inches in diameter and must be exactly in the middle. I located the middle and then the measurement from the back of the plate. Tomorrow I'll drill and then finish bore this but it is a fussy job and there's no point of pushing the envelope. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Macartney Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 18 hours ago, JV Puleo said: The mandrel has a very slight taper. It's pressed in with an arbor press so it is friction only. That is a useful tip. Thanks Mike PS: So my bars that I have turned down on the lathe when the tailstock was not quite in line could be called mandrels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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