1930 Buick series 40 Wood

[tomsupon1]

Hello all fellow Buick fans. Has anyone found a manufacturer of wood kits for the cab?  I see a gentleman at Autowood Restoration makes complete kits. Mostly for Chevy.  

Can anyone tell me if there is a difference in the framing used between Chevy and Buick. Both cabs are made by Fisher and I would think there is not much difference if any. I can't think that that Fisher was big enough back then to make different cabs for all the models and manufactures they supported. One would think that wood pieces were made in one building or shop and transported to another for assembly.  I could be wrong though. 

Any info would be greatly appreciated 

[27donb]

With Buick not sharing any parts between Standard and Master Series models of the same year, and I mean literally not any, I would be surprised if another MAKE of car shared similar wood body parts as the Buick make.

 

I think if there were kits compatible with Buick, people would be using them.

Edited October 15, 2016 by 27donb (see edit history)

[Hubert_25-25]

Tom,

Fisher made the bodies for the closed cars, and Buick made the bodies for the open cars in the mid 20's.  From what I have seen of the Chevy kits at Autowood Restorations, they look close in design to what Buick would have been using, but it would not match.  I get the impression that if you sent them the wood that you have, they could replicate it in new Ash.  Perhaps you can have them copy what you have, and then during assembly, you can remake the final parts.  I have full size patterns for the wood in a 1925 Buick 4 door touring that I made to share, but there are only a handful of us with this car.   Hugh

[tomsupon1]

Hello and thanks Don and Hugh for your responses. 

Hugh do you know what the differences between you 1925 and my 1930 would be?  The rear aft floor beam and some of the aft upper rear window supports are very badly rotten that I cannot piece it together. I guess I will need to find someone who has templates that I can use. Any suggestions?  

[Hubert_25-25]

Tom,

   I will get you some drawings that will help you understand what you will need for your lower frame area, but since these are for a touring, you may need help from others for anything above the top of the doors.   Hugh

[tomsupon1]

Thanks Hugh. I sent you an email with my contact info. 

[Leif Holmberg]

Why not visit e-bay and buy a Fischer book like this on.Original or copy!

Leif in Sweden.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Buick-Body-Repair-Manual-1926-1927-1928-1929-1930-1931-1932-Shop-Service-Book-/401118346385?hash=item5d64843c91:g:1tcAAOxyzHxRI6w-&vxp=mtr

[tomsupon1]

Leif I have one of these. Unfortunately it does not have measurements for what I would need.  But thank you for the suggestion. 

[Leif Holmberg]

Tom.If you think you will be helped of other years of Buick for your wood restoring,just look at those  2 scanned pages from my Master Parts List of Closed Body Parts. This book is for 1926-1934 all models closed cars.

Leif in Sweden.

[tomsupon1]

Hello Lief. What manual are these pages out of?  It looks like I will need one of these manuals as well. 

[tomsupon1]

Sorry for the miss spelling of your name Leif.  My apologies. 

[Leif Holmberg]

No problem with my name,I`m use to it especially from some US people.

Here are all the pictures  in the 167 page book + and some pages in the beginning of the book..

Leif in Sweden.

 

[tomsupon1]

XLeif is the link you provided to the same book you are referencing?

[Leif Holmberg]

No it`s not,the book  I ref.to was the same book as you already had.

Leif in Sweden.

[Leif Holmberg]

Here is a site with Fischer books,but not the same as the last pictures I sent.

Leif in Sweden.

 

 

http://www.v8buick.com/archive/index.php/t-295368.html?s=6954c657233fae41b884305eae54b64b

[dibarlaw]

These references are great for identifying the component parts and how they relate to each other. I have the "Fisher Body Service manual" from 1931. Unfortunately, I have found no dimensional information an any wood component. There was a thread on "Our Restoration Projects" or "Me and my Buick" that had someone with literally hundreds of photos of how he has re-wooded his Buick of similar vintage. Most importantly what is the series and body style of your 1930 Buick? I had not seen this mentioned in any of your previous posts. That information will help narrow things down a bit.

[tomsupon1]

Hello dibarlaw. It's a series 40. 

 

[Leif Holmberg]

And how about some photos of your car.We love photos of unrestored cars as well as restored cars or cars in pices!

Leif in Sweden

[tomsupon1]

Here are some pics Leif. 

[tomsupon1]

Here are a couple of pics of the instrument panel that I had someone paint the lettering for me. 

[Leif Holmberg]

Thanks "tomsupon1" ,always a pleasure to see other owners cars,and I`m sure a lot of Buick people in US are interrested too.(as well as "down there" AUS-NZ)

Leif in Sweden.

[Bob Engle]

There are two different functions for the wood in the bodies.  Structural and for trim for upholstery and molding attachment.  Structural wood needs to be more precise in its shape and dimensions.   When replacing structural components, you usually will have to change the fastening methods as at the factory, the wood frame was built first and fasteners were put in form the outside and then the sheet metal parts were put over the wood. The trim wood can be fashioned by fitting to the moldings.  Structural wood was typically hardwoods, ash and oak were common.  The trim wood is frequently poplar as it is much easier to tack and attach finish screws.   

 

I replaced about 2/3 of the wood in my 32 -58.  I did it  one piece at a time. Remove one piece, shape it trace a pattern for the opposite side, install the new piece. I would be glad to share some photos but the dimensions won't  match your car.  pm me if you want more photos.

 

[pplaut]

If you need additional wood products.. Classic Wood in Greensboro, NC

 

[bmg1959]

On 10/24/2016 at 10:28 AM, pplaut said:

If you need additional wood products.. Classic Wood in Greensboro, NC

 

Classic Wood has no Buick wood products, only Ford Model A & T and V8 and Chevrolet.

[tomsupon1]

Hello all. I thought I would give you some pictures of my progress. All the metal is removed from the coach with the exception of the two door center posts and some of the wire track covers. Does anyone know what I have to do to remove the metal from the door posts?  Looks as if I have to bend the flanges, but do not want to do that until I am sure that's the only way.  I also ordered a master parts book.  

The next phase will be disassembly and starting on remanufacture of the parts. 

Have a great day. 

[JoelsBuicks]

Tom,

Regarding the center post wood, think "shoehorn."  Using stiff putty knives or margin trowels you pry the metal apart enough to remove the wood.  You won't have to bend anything; there's enough spring in the metal to free the wood.  Two people operating four "shoehorns" will make this task relatively easy.  Just reverse the process to insert the new wood.  I have some pics in my projects thread for my 1931 8-67.  Good luck!

-Joel

[tomsupon1]

Thank you for your insight on center post removal. I will try it out soon. 

[tomsupon1]

One other question. When making new wood pieces do I use green or dried Ash. 

[JoelsBuicks]

Use the dried Ash.  It's not my wood of choice but many people here have used it successfully.  It's strong and machines well and holds screws.  My only issue with it is that the powder post beetle finds it irresistible.  

[tomsupon1]

Hi Joel's. If you don't like Ash what would do you use?

[JoelsBuicks]

I use a mix of White Oak and Cypress; mostly Cypress.  Both of these woods are rot resistant and fairly stable when dried.  They are also very different from each other and I favor the Cypress when possible because it's easier to work with.  White Oak is very hard and has a tendency to split but structurally speaking, it's more than you'll ever need.  To me, the Cypress very well mimics most of the original wood which looks to me to be either Poplar or Cottonwood.  I've seen both Red Oak and White Oak used from the factory but have never been able to positively identify Ash, although many people report seeing it.

 

I'm probably not giving the Ash a fair shake but I have a reason.  Another hobby I have is operating a sawmill & kiln.  Along with many other species, I've sawed ash and kiln dried it.  I've stacked it in a barn and in a year there appeared many miniature piles of very fine dust within the stack.  The next year it was a total loss.  Another example was a table saw fence (jig) that I built out of Ash.  I finished it with polyurethane and it is now a total loss.  I've had the same experience with Pecan and even with the sapwood of black walnut.  My stash of Cypress and White Oak is untouched.  I know that I'm missing some sort of preservation method but the whole experience has me jaded on Ash.  But, I have no doubt that it is being widely used and will probably last for many years.

 

Here are a couple pics.  The header above the windshield is White Oak and the rest is Cypress.  The center posts are Cypress.  I would never want to drive upholstery nails into White Oak which is yet another thing to consider.

 

Joel

 

       

[tomsupon1]

Joel what year is your car?  If it's a 1930 series 40 model 47 do you have DR awnings for your wood pieces?

[pplaut]

You can check with Classic Wood in Greensboro, NC. It is where I got my wood made.

[JoelsBuicks]

No drawings at all.  I used the old rotted wood and where it didn't exist I made patterns according to the metal profiles and in some cases I just gave it my best guess.

[tomsupon1]

Joel do you know what process you may have missed in using the ash?  I will also look into Cyprus as well. 

[JoelsBuicks]

Tom, it has a lot to do with not being able to control drying and storing conditions very well.  Like I mentioned before, I have a sawmill that I use to saw my own lumber.  My kiln is solar with forced draft and will only heat to about 150F during daylight - probably not hot enough to kill larvae.  The storage (after kiln drying) is not temperature or humidity controlled and so it's still subject to infestation.  If I really had to preserve the Ash, I'd probably spray the boards with a borate solution.  My fear is that I'd invest a great deal of my time and labor rewooding a car and be using Ash already infested. 

 

But there's more.  To me, the rot resistant properties of White Oak and Cypress are attractive as long as everything else is about equal.  Ash may offer a great balance of strength, flexibility, and workability but it offers no resistance to fungal decay or infestation.  This may not be a fair comparison but if I were to cut 4x4 fence posts out of Ash, Cypress, and White Oak, and then bury one end of each in the ground, the Ash would be gone in a year and the others would be there for 20+ years.  That example may be a stretch from the hinge side post in the rear door of a '31 Buick but is it really?  Occasionally, the moisture will be there.  Once you've pulled the rotted wood out of one of these cars, the culprit is obvious.  Everywhere that water can be, the wood is gone.

 

There's no question that a nicely restored and rewooded car will not see the conditions that it once did, including road conditions.  Hopefully, it will be cared for and kept dry and its wood will remain structurally sound for well over a century, regardless of the species.  For me, it's just a matter of "overdoing" something just because I can and at the same time, avoiding having to worry about the potential decay.

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

   

[tomsupon1]

Hi Joel. Thank you very much for your insight. If I go with the ash I will also look at the borate solution or maybe even white vinager. I used the vinager on an antique cabinet to bet rid of the wood worms it had. Either way I will also look into cypress wood use. It will all depend on the prices I find. Thanks again!

[Larry Schramm]

IMO, ash can not be better for strength, flexibility, and performance in an automobile environment. 

 

As far as I know it is the wood of choice for wheels and baseball bats.

[Guest]

I thought Hickory was the choice for wheels and baseball bats.  In over 60 years in the old car hobby I have never read about Ash being original for artillery wheels. By the way pound for pound hickory it is stronger than steel.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Guest (see edit history)

[Dwight Romberger]

Tom,

For which pieces do you need patterns?

Dwight