disc brake conversion

[padgett]

The important thing about disks is that they recover from driving through a puddle much more quickly. I remember riding drums for about a block after a puddle to dry them out.

 

Have had both through the years and as long as you understand puddles and do not go over 70, a really good set of drums can be great. Late 50's/early 60's saw aluminum finned drums and even drums with screens and little fans on production cars.

 

Do remember some interesting times with a 61 Caddy 'vert when the brakes became thoroughly Ex trying to stop from a "Reasonable and Proper" speed but the 67 GP 'vert with 8-lugs was never an issue.

[JACK M]

20 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Does not make them drive like a new car. They drive like a old car with new brakes,suspensions and engines. A lot of the original characteristics the car had, in regards to design and driving feel, never leave no matter what you change.

 

I don't know about that.

I have built many cars with upgraded suspensions, (kits and repurposing)

They all drive much better than when they had original suspensions. (however most of my projects were to far hacked to drive on the original stuff). But its fun to drive an old car that handles well.

As for the drum vs disc debate. If I am building a fresh suspension I will usually go with discs, Nothing wrong with drums if set up correctly, but the discs have fewer parts to go wrong and resist fading better than drums. (if you have ever watched a NASCAR race on a short track the discs will be red with heat and still race). And discs are easier to service.

 

I have heard some stories of discs warping prematurely. I am afraid that some manufactures don't do their homework on brakes.

My daughters are always complaining of warped discs and for the life of me I cannot get it through to them to quit racing up to the stop lights.

Especially hard on brakes with a heavy rig and that kind of aggressive driving.

[Xander Wildeisen]

You are right JACK M. The up grades do make a difference. Any time you replace a old design with a new one you get the modern benefits. But some things do not change or go a way, with out major changes. Weight distribution and aerodynamics are the big ones. Top heavy bodies out of the thirties, square bodies out of the twenties all have a tough time in the weight distribution and aerodynamics. I love hearing people say if I put a Corvette engine and suspension in my 40 Ford coupe. It will drive like a Corvette. No it will not, put it on a track with a Corvette. And you will find that it drives like a 40 Ford coupe with a Corvette engine and suspension. The Corvette will drive like a Corvette.

[padgett]

Depends on what you want. I have always preferred cars that can go around corners well. All of the current herd (in the .sig) have front and rear sway bars including the tow car, Judge is the only one with even rear drums. That said my 63 B/P  'vette was the one that had humongus front drums with fans (J56 ?) and I have had a number of Corvairs with drums all the way around including a Corsa/140 that was an autocross champion. Had to be careful setting them up but never had a brake-related problem.

 

Further I suspect that if you take a 40 Ford coupe that has been chopped and channeled a bit and set it on a complete late Corvette chassis you would be surprised. C/D would be the major difference. I'd add a roll cage (chassis stiffener) though. Perhaps a 100 gallon auxiliary fuel tank ? Aerodynamics should not come into play below the ton (belly pan and a chin spoiler maybe ?). 

 

But my opinion is given a choice, I'll take big vented disks all the way around. Lot less trouble. However is nothing wrong with a good set of drums if they are set up right. Few know how any more.

[JACK M]

HMMM

[Larry Schramm]

Any properly set up car with well maintained and properly adjusted brakes will work as good as any conversion under normal circumstances.

 

Why put a bunch of odd ball parts on a car and create a frankencar?  Easier to fix it right and be able to go to a standard catalogue to get the original parts, especially if you are tourning.

[joe_padavano]

15 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

Any properly set up car with well maintained and properly adjusted brakes will work as good as any conversion under normal circumstances.

 

Why put a bunch of odd ball parts on a car and create a frankencar?  Easier to fix it right and be able to go to a standard catalogue to get the original parts, especially if you are tourning.

 

Seriously?  You're telling me that the 9.5" drum brakes that came standard on my 370 HP Olds 442 will stop as well as upgraded disk brakes?  Issac Newton would beg to differ.

In any case, it isn't "normal circumstances" that I'm worried about, it's the once-in-a-lifetime emergency situation that I want to be able to survive.

[countrytravler]

Never had a problem stopping with my 12 sec 1/4 mile 65 Impala SS convertible with 409 400 4 speed. All drum brakes. I was 16 and you know darn well that I did not drive it easy with numerous speeding and drag racing tickets. MAN!  I had to be crazy. Sold that car and and bought a 67 427 Vette.  4 piston disk brakes on all 4 corners and WOW! I could out maneuver and outrun the cops and never got caught. If disk are so superior,  why have the big trucks been mandated to use rhem? Airplanes have been using disk since the 40s?

Edited September 18, 2016 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

Drums vs disks.  6V vs 12V.  Dangers of adding seatbelts to an older car.  These topics are like discussing religion or politics on this site.  Do what you want.  At some point it's just evolution in action.

[Matt Harwood]

This conversation has gotten WAY off track. If you want discs on your car, put discs on your car--who cares? But if you think it will magically stop like a modern car with wide, sticky tires and ABS, you're going to be badly disappointed. If you think it's an afternoon "bolt on" job that doesn't require you to get creative with your engineering or require you to spend more money on parts you didn't think you'd need, you're wrong. If you have money to burn and feel that this is important to your peace of mind, go ahead and do it. There's no shortage of full-sized Buick sedans running around, who cares if this one has discs on it? It doesn't affect value in any notable way.

 

Disc brakes ARE better in most ways. They work better. They shed heat and water better. They're easier to maintain. Parts are plentiful. I don't think anyone is making the argument that drums are superior in design. But one thing disc brakes won't do on a 1964 Buick sedan is make it stop shorter in normal use. If you're driving the car hard enough to find the limits of the stock brakes, then maybe it's a good idea and you'll feel better (I might also suggest an adjustment of your driving style, but that's between you and your insurance company). But if the car stops fine on drums, the common sense thing is to keep the drums instead of spending money (and then more money) on an upgrade that won't offer any tangible benefits on a car that gets driven sparingly and gently.

 

I think what most folks were objecting to was the widely-held misconception that no old car can possibly be safe without disc brakes, because that's a VERY common mindset. We think that somehow we're smarter than the factory engineers because we have the benefit of hindsight and decades of technical knowledge. I get at least one visitor a week who says that he'd be "afraid to drive a car that old" when talking about my 1941 Cadillac, which I drive to work every day at 60 MPH on manual drum brakes. My '41 Buick limousine has gigantic 16-inch drums. Do you think some puny GM 11-inch rotor and single piston caliper is going to have the kind of stopping power this massive car needs? Hell no. THAT would be scary.

 

Put 4-wheel discs on it. Put a 350 Chevy in it. Convert it to 12 volts. Paint it purple. Nobody cares. But when you go to the doctor and tell him you want to cut your arm off and install a robot arm, don't get all indignant when he recommends against it.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

You can have the best of both worlds some times. Here is a clip of how you can up grade to power windows, and not change a thing. There is common ground between restorations and customs. (Throwing in some humor to bust up the disk/drum battle)

  

[joe_padavano]

And after a week and three pages of posts, the O.P. hasn't been back.

 

Another newbie lost.

[countrytravler]

Maybe he works 2 jobs to pay for this hobby and has little time to be on here. Happens often.

[CarlLaFong]

1 hour ago, joe_padavano said:

And after a week and three pages of posts, the O.P. hasn't been back.

 

Another newbie lost.

And, automatically, it is the fault of those who questioned his desire to convert his car. There are plenty of "one and done" posters here. Not everyone is run off by negative comments. Frankly, if they are that thin skinned, perhaps a stamp collection might be a better option for them. He was given advice on where to find the kit, or kits, that he was looking for and was also given arguments for and against the idea. None were smarmy or condescending, at least the ones directed towards him and not members arguing with each other. In all, I think his question was more than answered

[60FlatTop]

Elmer's Model T Ford don't need no stinkin' disk brakes!