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Guest imported_MrEarl

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Guest imported_MrEarl

Carl, I'm still at work so access was denied to the CollectorCarTrader site so will check it out at home. I'm exited that it may be a true Buick truck. Thanks for posting !!!

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Guest imported_MrEarl

Definitely another conversion. Last Buick trucks were in the late teens I believe. I'm gonna try and call the seller tomorrow to get the story on it.

Thanks for posting.

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1923 was the last year for trucks at Buick. This 1930 probably started live as a sedan. Stories go that during WWII that a lot of conversions like this were done. Farmers would convert sedans to trucks for hauling produce and also your gas allotment was higher for a farm truck, rather tan a family sedan.. If it has a T sticker in the window, that's the rationing Tag. To date have seen an 08, 13, 15, 16 and 23. All very impressive. some day will own one.

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Lamar, here's your chance to buy an original 1908 Buick truck. It's listed in Old Cars Weekly, Jan 19th page 17. Phone # 1-815-389-9999 www.historicautoattractions.com price $40,000 Let me know when it arrives, because I would love a ride. I just checked out there web site. Take the museum tour, it's item #3. There is also one of these trucks at the National Truck Museum in Auburn IN, next to the Auburn Museum.

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Guest imported_MrEarl

1,2,3,4,5 push, 1,2,3,4,5 push........ jus' tryin to keep this thread alive

I do believe the sign refers to Buick Trucks doesn't it

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or perhaps we shoud call one of these

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Guest imported_MrEarl

This 1908 is one of the finest examples I've ever seen. and it's currently on EBAY

1908 BUICK STAKE BED TRUCK (EXTREMELY RARE!)

This Rare Truck was built by the Buick Truck Devision from 1908-1918. Sold mostly to telephone companies.

By the time the 20th Century was 10 years old, the number of telephone subscribers was increasing rapidly throughout the country. To meet the demand for phones, the Bell Telephone Company realized that horse-drawn service equipment was just to slow. So in 1908 they began experimenting with motor vehicles. The first service truck that went into action was a BUICK MODEL 2"A", EXPRESS. It carried reels of telephone wire, tools and equipment and chugged manfully over rutted roads to speed up service and repairs. Although the engine only had 2 cylinders, chain drive, the truck was capable of speeds up to 15 mph. Since the weight carried was comparatively light, the Buick Express was equipped with pneumatic tires, 32x4, front and rear. What seems strange to us today, the two sets of expanding brakes on the rear wheels were lined, of all things, with camel's hair! Buick stopped making them after 1918.

This car was purchased from the Imperial Palace Auto Collection in Las Vegas Nevada and has been on display at Historic Auto Attractions ever since. Visit our website to see it on display in our 'Turn of the Century' room. www.historicautoattractions.com.

This car is in Immaculate Museum Condition.

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Guest imported_MrEarl

Very interesting Johnny,

my son is seriously considering swapping a 3800 into his Isuzu Trooper.I currently has a stock lil S-10 V-6 in it. Says it wouldn't be very hard to do. Yea right... I guess it would then be an Ibuzzu

thanks for sharing.

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I have enjoyed reading this thread along with all the great photos. I will be picking up a friend's 1925 D45 modified "Truck" in Iowa on my way to this year's national meet. I hope to get it in shape to drive it on the Pre-War After-tour.

Mark Shaw

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My hats off to the new editor of the Bugle. I loved the story on the 1915 Buick truck. Great photos and story. I believe that this is the same truck that was for sale on the forum back in Sept. for $25000. It states that it has been sold, I wonder if the new owners are on the forum? I had looked at a 15 in Ohio, and should have purchased it then, but didn't. It was not as complete nor running. Well I hope the new owners enjoy.

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Guest imported_MrEarl

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where did you find the other truck? It appears to be a touring car turned into a truck. </div></div>

The 1908 has been on ebay a couple of times now. Looks nice, eh.

The converted touring car was in a barn along with a 54 Super that I looked at a year or so ago. Stupidly didn't buy either.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stupidly didn't buy either. </div></div>

Before you go calling yourself stupid, ask what Rita would have thought...I thought so...you're brighter than you sometimes let on <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

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Guest imported_MrEarl

I recently watched this 1913 Buick Truck go no sale on eBay.IMHO this is a beautiful example and I'm surprised to see these pieces of Buick history not bring more than they typically do.

As the time these images will be available on eBay will run out I have borrowed the follwing images and text from the auction. I would certainly love to have this baby in my barn.

Because there is a limit to 5 attachments, more photos and text will follow in the next post.

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Guest imported_MrEarl

Here is the Auction description and Q&A which I thought was very informative. More pictures follow the text

This is a significant piece of Buick history. Some people are familiar with the 1910 - 1912 chain drive, 2-cylinder, model 2 heavy duty Buick truck. But not many know that Buick manufactured the model 4 as the next generation. This is one of 461 built in 1913. Buick built another 700 in 1914. The model 4 is a 3/4 ton truck built from the ground up as a heavy duty truck. It shares very little with Buick's cars. It has a heavy frame and axles. Full eliptical rear springs and semi-eliptical on the front. Even the engine was designed exclusively for "heavy lugging in comercial duty". 20 HP 141 Cu In. 4 cylinder cast en block, L head, flat head configuration with 3 inch bore x 5 inch stroke. 3 main bearings. Thermo-syphon cooling (no water pump). Internal valves. This is the only flat head engine Buick ever made for a production vehicle. Buick is noted for separate jugs and exposed, overhead valves configuration in their cars of this era. The wheelbase is 122 inch. Overall length is 16-1/2 feet The seat is 50" off the ground. The tallest point, the steering wheel is 5-1/2 feet above ground. Cargo space behind the seat is 43 x 98 inches. It weighs 3200 lbs empty with 3/4 ton cargo ratting. This is a much larger, more impressive and substancial size vehicle than a Ford model T or similar pick up truck. Yet if you duck, you can drive the truck into a typical home garage. These trucks are not only ruggedly built, they were advanced for their time. 3 speeds forward with reverse. Enclosed tube, drive shaft. 35 x 5 pneumatic tires on demountable rims. Most small trucks were chain drive with hard rubber tires. These trucks were sold as a bare chassis or with 4 available factory bodies. The truck up for auction was delivered with the "OPEN EXPRESS BODY WITH WING BOARDS" priced at $1250.oo. Expensive for a truck. These trucks are not electrified. They are crank start on battery, run on magneto. This truck has the original and functioning Remy coil and magneto. This truck also has the correct oil side and tail lamps with Prest-O-Lite tank and gas head lamps. The body was authentically reproduced using the original as a pattern and using the same wood as the original. The lumber was hand picked for knotts and straightness and custom milled at a cost of $4000 just for the lumber and mill work. The wood used is the same as original, Hard maple (painted green) and red oak (natural/amber spar varnish). The base of the body sits on 2 x 5 inch (true deminsion) x 12 ft long hard maple sills. with 2 x 3 hard maple cross braces and thick oak pieces as well, to give you an idea why the high material expense. All solid wood was used. No spliced or glued up pieces were used except the plywood dash, just like the original body. I assembled the body with the same mortise and tennon construction. The only exception I made was to use brass wood screws instead of iron to prevent iron discoloration of the wood. The maple is painted green, one of two available body colors. The "battleship gray" chassis (different than the car gray) was computer speced and is very correct. Body, chassis, fenders, and wheels correctly stripped. The oak trim may have been painted black or gray originally. I have not been able to confirm that except to say taht it was a different color than the maple. I did not have the hart to paint red oak so I sealed and coated it with an amber shaded spar varnish to give it a rich golden hugh. No stains were used except on the maple dash to tint it similar to the original. This truck was faithfully restored about 4 years ago. It has fresh tires and leather seat with horse hair stuffing. I only had it judged twice since it was restored. It took 2nd in the brass car class behind a very well restored car. It was there that the truck was invited to participate in the 2004 Glenmoor Concour (Canton Ohio) where it took first in the commercial vehicle class. I also drove it in the National Pro Football Hall of Fame parade. It is a very impressive brass vehicle that draws attention. Copies of a truck sales brochure and operators manual are included in the sale. About the only problems with this truck is that the radiator has developed a slow, damp leak near the top of the core. The radiator was restored at a shop during the restoration but has recently developed this leak. The truck has been sitting for the last 2 years and could use some detail cleaning and it will be ready for show. The car starts and runs good. top speed is about 30 MPH, similar to touring with a 1 -2 cyl car. This is a rare opportunity to buy an unusual brass truck with soft tires and reasonable touring ability. With the price of brass cars increasing rapidly this could be a reasonably priced brass vehicle.

Answers to some questions asked:

The truck as it is is the base model as described and pictured in the sales brochure. The only option on the truck is the spare tire. A spare rim was also an available option but this truck does not have the optional rim. A windshield, and folding canvas (buggy style) top were also available options. The brochure does not mention optional electric lights, however I found another source that lists optional bulbs and wire harness. The oil side and tail lights have bulb socket bases but not the headlights. Dual oil/electric lamps were common with pre electric start cars and the bulbs were sometimes sold separately. The photos in the brochure are black & white but the description specifies battleship gray chassis and wheels with black stripping, and black fenders and hood with striping. Wheels are wood, painted gray also. The color choices for the body are either "valcanic red" (yuk) or "body green". The serial tag is riveted to the right front frame horn. The serial is 720. "M-4" is also stamped on the serial tag. It has the original Schebler carb. The original mag is a Remy RL, a copy of the proper mag manual is also included with the sale. Gas tank is under seat cushion. Buick also made a shorter, 100" wheelbase version with 33" tires and rated at 1/2 ton called model 3. I don't know if any other 1913 or 1914 model 4 trucks have survived. I do know of a few model 4C (1915) and 4D (1916). These are updated versions of this truck with round barrel hoods, OHV engine and "step boards" along the side of the bed. The 1915 has all electric lights but is hand crank only. Electric start was not available until 1916, the last year of this model truck and the last yesr Buick made a true truck. They did make a few more models off & on up into the 20's but they were actually beefed up cars or just bare car chassis sold for commercial conversion. The transmission is conventional 3 speed selective gear with cone clutch, typical to Buick cars with the backwards H pattern, meaning that R is at the bottom right. The gear shift and emergency brake leavers are side by side in the middle of the floor. All of the tailgate hardware (hinges, latches, chain) are original and heavier than Ford T. The radiator cap is the correct original cap. The brass eagle came with it when I bought the truck but is not Buick, however it is period after market. I have a 1913 accessory catalog showing this brass eagle so I left it on the car because I felt it was part of it's history. Besides, I needed something to fill the hole and it looks like it belongs there.......

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On Sep-10-07 at 20:19:02 PDT, seller added the following information:

My claim that this is the only L head, FLATHEAD Buick made was not meant to be a challenge. PLEASE NO MORE MESSAGES REGARDING THAT CLAIM. I am aware that Buick made some L and T configurations but non of those fit the commonly accepted definition of "flathead", meaning a crankcase and cylinder block cast in one mass (cast en block) containing all moving parts, with valves operating directly off the camshaft below, and a "flat" head that typically spans all cylinders (or bank of cylinders in a V design) with no moving parts in or on the head. The well known Ford & Cadillac flatheads of the 30's & 40's come to mind. I am aware that L and T refers to the location of the valves with respect to the piston and doesn't necessarily mean it's a flathead. Buick's other L & T heads have cylinder block castings (jugs) that are separate from the crankcase, at least 1 motor that I am familiar with operates the valves indirectly by push rod/ rocker action, and non of those other motor have "flat" heads. The possible exception may be the Marquette.

Having said that, I don't believe I have any factory documentation that refers to this engine as a "flathead", however it fits the common definition. Buick does describe the motor as "cast en block" with "popit valves operating directly off the cam" and refers to the head as a single piece. I do not have a way to scan my literature to add to the auction or email to bidders. IF THE WINNING BIDDER IS NOT CONVINCED BY MY FACTORY DOCUMENTATION ( PROVIDED WITH THE SALE ) I WILL REFUND THE DEPOSIT AND CANCEL THE SALE. Bid with confidence

Q: I notice that the engine picture shows a flathead and you say it's the only flathead Buick ever produced. You might want to check the Marquette, built by Buick in the 1929-1930 era, which had a flathead six. Since I spent several years documenting Buick frame and engine numbers, would you kindly furnish me those two numbers for my files? Also, could you tell me what documentation (parts book, owners manual, etc.) that you have that this is a correct engine? I've personally driven a 1915 C4 and a 1916 D4 truck, both of which were OHV engines. Please e-mail me directly at: dfcorbin@corbincom.com Thanks, Dave Corbin BCA 2756 and SouthCentral Regional Director, Society of Automotive Historians #1917 Sep-08-07

A: I did not find any numbers stamped into the frame or engine when I restored it. The truck was a western truck and the frame was not rusty when I bought it. I don't believe It ever had a frame number. The only ID numbers on the truck is the oval tag riveted to the front frame horn. I do not have a parts manual for this truck. I have not been able to obtain one. I do have an original sales brochure and a copy of the operators manual, both dated 1913, and cover "Buick model 3 & 4 Trucks". Photos & illustrations show this engine and refer to the engine as an "L head". The op manual has a large, fold out lube chart. The chart has a line drawing of the chassis & motor that obviously ID's this engine. Buick wrote several paragraphs in the sales brochure explaining their rational for developing this "L Head" motor for the model 3 & 4 truck. There is no doubt that this is the authentic motor. Although Buick began using letter prefixes with their 1914 cars, I have never found a reference to a B4. I also owned a 1915 C4 truck I sold 2 years ago. I have a parts manual, sales brochure, operators manual, & Delco manuals for the C4 & D4. You are correct that those 2 years used a Buick OHV car motor. Buick also updated the hood to the round style to match the 15 cars. I know of a few other C & D trucks but I don't know of any other 13 or 14 trucks out there. Because the 13 - 16 trucks are so rare, I have often had to document that this is a real truck and not a converted car. This same model is pictured in the brochure and matches the dimensions in the specs. I can assure you that this truck is very correct & authentic in every way.

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To all on the Buick truck thread:

The owner of the 1913 was kind enough to send me for my files copies of the documentation on this very unusual Buick. Further checking with Terry Dunham confirms that Buick Engineering Specifications for 1914 list an L-head engine of the same size as the truck engine used in 1913.

However, the frame number of 720, which is on the small riveted tag, would indicate a very early 1914 model. Practices by various states in the early years often resulted in small date errors, so this isn't unusual, and should not be construed as an error by the owner. Even Buick would mix model years and frame numbers together at the start of a model year.

I also note the comments about the Model 2A truck seen on e-bay, which is advertised as a 1908. This dating error was made when the truck was part of the Harrah collection. The engine number, which is what is used as the VIN on this vehicle, clearly establishes it as a 1911, not a 1908. I would also note that Buick's engineering and production records agree that no Model 2-A's were produced until into the 1910 model year, so the 1908 date is clearly wrong.

Regards, Dave Corbin

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: riv2x4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a 1914 Model 4 Firetruck on the cover of the Dec 85 Bugle. I don't have a scanner so I can't provide a picture. My Riv is on the back cover and the story is by the previous owner.

Larry </div></div>

Dear Larry:

I pulled my copy of the Dec. 1985 Bugle and your Riv is still on the back cover. The cover story indicates, as you noted, a 1914 Model 4 fire truck in Auburn, Ca.

HOWEVER, a check of the frame numbers mentioned in the story shows that the trucks are 1916 C4's, not 1914's as stated. The engine picture, which shows an OHV engine, confirms the model as later than 1914.

Regards, Dave Corbin

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