nailhead9 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I have a problem with my brakes, lately when I first start driving I experience no problem, but after using the brakes the car starts pulling the right when I apply the brakes. The last time the right front wheel locked up when I needed to apply hard brakes. I have replaced both flexible front brake lines, all the steel rear brake lines (I have the front steel brake lines, but the garage said they could not replace them without taking out the engine), all the wheel cylinders and have adjusted all the brakes. Should I think about replacing the master cylinder and power booster? How difficult of a job would this be? I remember when my dad bought his 1956 Pontiac (the first car we had with power brakes) if you hit the brakes hard it would send you towards the windshield, my Buick has never shown this much power. Thank you for your help, Warren https://www.youtube.com/edit?video_id=0h46TqPuJjQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 You have either grease or brake fluid, or both, on the bands. When your Dad bought his "first car with power brakes" he was used to non power, so probably until he became used to them he was hitting them too hard. You, on the other hand, are probably going the other way. Today's brakes take way less foot pressure than power brakes of the '50s. Ben 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Also check the wheel alignment. If it is toed out all kinds of squirrelly things happen when braking hard. When replacing the shoes have them relined at a brake/clutch rebuilder and specify lining material that will stop 2+tons of Buick with the least effort (most off-the-shelf linings are too hard a require increased effort to stop). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Also, in my opinion, you have a problem with your garage if they cannot replace those lines without removing the engine. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nailhead9 Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 Thanks to all for your help. First Born, there was no grease or brake fluid on the bands. I was the one having adjustment problems with my dad's new Pontiac, I think a lot of people were having trouble getting use to power brakes "back in the day". old-tank, I had the wheel alignment done, your advice is very much appreciated (most off-the-shelf linings are too hard a require increased effort to stop), I will check into that. JohnD1956, I agree with your " opinion, you have a problem with your garage", that is why I stopped going there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nailhead9 Posted August 29, 2016 Author Share Posted August 29, 2016 I am interested to hear about the problems replacing 60-year-old master cylinder and power brake booster. I have also heard that brake drums that are out of round could cause this to happen. Any thoughts or comments will be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beemon Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 6 hours ago, nailhead9 said: I am interested to hear about the problems replacing 60-year-old master cylinder and power brake booster. Short answer is the system was engineered for your car. The long answer is comparing the bore of the master cylinder to the bore of a modern unit (vacuum booster is irrelevant) and then using Bernoulli's principle to find the correct pressure differential across all four wheel cylinders to achieve a similar or better braking scenario. Not to mention your pedal ratio needs to be at least 4:1 in terms of where it's hung on the firewall. Then there's the matter of running new lines to the front and back. You also need to have adequate space since today's vacuum boosters are larger and the master cylinders are dual stage, single circuit units that are almost twice the length. Custom bracketry will be needed and holes will most likely need to be drilled. More trouble than it's worth and the suppliers won't know any of this. They sell generic cookie cutter kits that have all the same equipment for all cars, so it may work better on a different car than yours and vice versa. You're lucky that 1957 went to the master cylinder on the firewall, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Check your front brake adjustment, as with all these comments, just guessing as I cant see the car, but if your car is pulling to the right after some driving, I would assume the LEFT front brake is slightly dragging causing brake fade, making the right front do all the work. Get a laser heat gun and go for a drive until you experience the problem, then jump out and check the temperature of the front drums. Hard part is, you need to stop as quick as you can, but not use the front brakes so the braking to stop and test does not pollute the reading, so do this somewhere out of the way as your going to have to use your e brake to stop and they are generally not that good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick man Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 (edited) …. we thinks someone cranked down on the outer wheel bearing too hard as this will always cause hard braking turn out. Jack the front end up, and pop the grease caps off too. Make a chalk mark at 12:00 on each wheel, grab the top of the tire at the 12:00 position and pull the tire back to the rear to spin the tire. Do this just hard enough to spin the tire while you can count the spins. Spin it again, then again. Write down the counts you get. Then repeat this procedure on the other front tire assembly. The results will tell you many things. If not similar, then adjusting of the brake band is in order. If you eventually find that you cannot equalize the 2 tires, then proceed to ether loosen/tighten the outer wheel bearing after removing the cotter key and hex cap. Then repeat the spin tests. A properly adjusted outer wheel bearing and brake shoe band adjustment will allow you to hear an intermittent metal shhh sound in rapped succession as you spin the wheel/tire assembly. You should be able to spin about 8 - 10 rotations per spin cycle before the assembly binds to a halt. Edited August 31, 2016 by buick man (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nailhead9 Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 Thanks again for all your help. Beemon, I am talking about getting a rebuilt master cylinder from Kanter Auto. Item #: 01270E Master Cylinder 1957 - 1960 Buick Full Size, not a newer style unit Ttotired, i will check out the front brake drums with my laser heat gun. buick man, I will check that out, however I just had the front wheel bearings replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancemb Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 32 minutes ago, nailhead9 said: Beemon, I am talking about getting a rebuilt master cylinder from Kanter Auto. Item #: 01270E Master Cylinder 1957 - 1960 Buick Full Size, not a newer style unit This unit is for non-power brakes only. You won't find the power master cylinder except as a complete master/booster assembly, and it won't be cheap. Also, regardless of the condition of yours, this will not cause pulling to one side as it is not a split system, but single path only. I'd double check the adjustment at the wheels. If the left side is slightly out of round or you did adjustment while shoes were a little cocked it may be adjusted more loosely than you thought relative to the right. Also, you still have the possibility of debris or a kink in the front brake line which could be causing this. It's true - these lines in front, while not fun to do, can be replaced with everything else in place. I've done it several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nailhead9 Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 lamcemb, thank you for your help, I will try to find someone who can replace the front brake lines for me. Ttotired, i just got back from my test drive and checked out the front brake drums with my laser heat gun, the passenger side was about 20 degrees warmer, but the backing plate was as much as 40 degrees warmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Which could mean that the left side isn't working at all. Kinda the opposite problem of "fade". Adjust em again, and definitely check the alignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Poor brake adjustment or a restricted brake line If its a brake line restriction, you will normally get (if its the left front) car pulling to the right under braking, but can pull to the left once the brakes are released for a bit (the fluid is slow to move in and out of the cylinder) Badly adjusted brakes (if left one is to tight or right one to loose) MAY pull to the left at first While driving, the be ok, but will pull to the left when braking at first, then loose effectiveness and MAY start to pull the other way under braking Normally, to tight on the brake where it will fade also comes with the lovely burning brake smell Hotter on one side than the other indicates friction on the hotter side, meaning that side is doing all the work (if the reading was taken after a brake application) or something is dragging (or, as said a too tight bearing) if the readings were done without a brake application Have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Worn front end components could also contribute to a pull in one direction or the other during braking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupekid Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 (edited) hello again fellow members !! ...Warren,, I had a similar problem recently with my 57`Buick ... ended up being that the inner wheel cylinder rubber cups had swelled up ...basically when i pressed & released the brake pedal ..the wheel cylinder rubber cups would not retract & this left the shoes applied against the brake wheel drum & if your other side works properly this is why you get pull in that one direction & why you have the extra heat to the culprit side.....i say dont change the expensive master cylinder...check them cheap $2 wheel cylinder cups. anyways ... something else freaky happened recently aswell ... I had this Buick engine with rough idle ...for the likes of me i changed everything from spark plug leads, plugs to dizzy cap etc etc ..even removed intake manifold & resealed that down too .. b`cos it felt & sounded like a vacuum leak idle problem... after weeks of scratching my head & going insane ... I eventually found that the carby base throttle shaft housing ends were slightly worn & letting air in ... .... i mean ,, C`mon who would have picked that as the culprit ...? its not even found anywhere in GooGle as a rough idle fault possibility..!! Edited September 1, 2016 by coupekid like Bowie said ..."che che che changes " (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 5 hours ago, coupekid said: hello again fellow members !! ...Warren,, I had a similar problem recently with my 57`Buick ... ended up being that the inner wheel cylinder rubber cups had swelled up ...basically when i pressed & released the brake pedal ..the wheel cylinder rubber cups would not retract & this left the shoes applied against the brake wheel drum & if your other side works properly this is why you get pull in that one direction & why you have the extra heat to the culprit side.....i say dont change the expensive master cylinder...check them cheap $2 wheel cylinder cups. anyways ... something else freaky happened recently aswell ... I had this Buick engine with rough idle ...for the likes of me i changed everything from spark plug leads, plugs to dizzy cap etc etc ..even removed intake manifold & resealed that down too .. b`cos it felt & sounded like a vacuum leak idle problem... after weeks of scratching my head & going insane ... I eventually found that the carby base throttle shaft housing ends were slightly worn & letting air in ... .... i mean ,, C`mon who would have picked that as the culprit ...? its not even found anywhere in GooGle as a rough idle fault possibility..!! Sorry but worn throttle shafts are a well known cause of vacuum leaks, glad you found it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick man Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 12 hours ago, coupekid said: hello again fellow members !! ...Warren,, I had a similar problem recently with my 57`Buick ... ended up being that the inner wheel cylinder rubber cups had swelled up ...basically when i pressed & released the brake pedal ..the wheel cylinder rubber cups would not retract & this left the shoes applied against the brake wheel drum & if your other side works properly this is why you get pull in that one direction & why you have the extra heat to the culprit side.....i say dont change the expensive master cylinder...check them cheap $2 wheel cylinder cups. anyways ... something else freaky happened recently aswell ... I had this Buick engine with rough idle ...for the likes of me i changed everything from spark plug leads, plugs to dizzy cap etc etc ..even removed intake manifold & resealed that down too .. b`cos it felt & sounded like a vacuum leak idle problem... after weeks of scratching my head & going insane ... I eventually found that the carby base throttle shaft housing ends were slightly worn & letting air in ... .... i mean ,, C`mon who would have picked that as the culprit ...? its not even found anywhere in GooGle as a rough idle fault possibility..!! … Ah then grasshopper, you must never of owned a honorable british sports car with multiple SU Carbs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupekid Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 lol ... oh No master ..i would rather power drive my fists into the hot cauldron & walk the earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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