55 Buick A.C. question

[Kosage Chavis]

Mr. Lamar, Mr. Willie or anyone who has any knowledge of this question in general...

 

Here is a picture of the factory A.C. compressor for a 55 Buick.And here is the measurement  of the gap at the top of this flat.  It measures a 3/8" gap.Now, here is a picture of the A.C. generator I just purchased.  I was told this part was pulled from a 56 buick.Now, note that the gap is close to a full 1/16" closer together.Here is my question...is this small disparity normal between pulleys or is this something to worry about?  I know I can be very anal about small details and maybe that is just the case here.  However, I know enough that if the alignment of your belts are off enough, that can shorten the life of any belt and hinder the operation of any thing that runs from it.  Thanks for any info.

[old-tank]

I can't tell on mine with the belts installed, but 1/16" difference is nothing to fret over.  Next question:

There are no measurements, but reference pictures of the pulleys on my website.

Willie

[Kosage Chavis]

Will do.  Thank you Mr. Willie.

[Kosage Chavis]

Okay, next question...where exactly is the mounting location for the A.C. resistor shown in this picture on the right?  Can anyone provide a picture of the location?

[old-tank]

Right side of the vent air box.  Attached with standoffs.  (hope you have a better resistor).

[Kosage Chavis]

My resistor is broken through 4 different  places.  Does it have a chance?  Thanks for the picture.  That helps a lot.

[old-tank]

Try hi-temp epoxy after checking.

[Beemon]

1 hour ago, old-tank said:

Try hi-temp epoxy after checking.

Not to derail thread, but would this effectively work on the backside of the original ballast and blower resistor if the ceramic is gone?

[JohnD1956]

9 hours ago, Beemon said:

Not to derail thread, but would this effectively work on the backside of the original ballast and blower resistor if the ceramic is gone?

Without any benefit of education or experience in electrical engineering, I ask, Isn't the point of the resistor to blow off heat?  If one was to put epoxy on the backside of the resistor, where the coils are exposed, I would think it would trap the heat. 

[old-tank]

Heat is a byproduct of using a resistor.  Some of those resistors had a white coating, now turned to powder...purpose unknown (fire or burn protection?).  An adhesive like epoxy probably would not be appropriate.

Willie

[JamesBulldogMiller55Buick]

Are you adding A/C to non-A/C car? 

Seems I remember the A/C car's Power Steering pulley has a different belt to center-line offset than the non A/C car

[Kosage Chavis]

14 hours ago, JamesBulldogMiller55Buick said:

Are you adding A/C to non-A/C car? 

Seems I remember the A/C car's Power Steering pulley has a different belt to center-line offset than the non A/C car

Yes.  I am adding A.C. to a non A.C. car.  And you are right about the power steering pump.  Thank God there are people like Mr. Lamar who has gotten me set up for the most part.  Here's a picture of the A.C. power steering pump he sold me a few weeks ago.All I need now is the correct scoops, air duct tubes, 3 groove water pump and crank pulleys and my search will be done.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Kosage Chavis
Grammar (see edit history)

[Beemon]

I believe the air duct tubes were the same for Cadillac, too? Could be wrong.

 

I wish I could do this conversion on my 56, but I think the 55 and 56 system are two completely different animals in terms of duct work and what not.

 

The crank pulleys will be your hardest challenge I think. Good luck!

[Ttotired]

Not really sure resin on a resistor would work, they get very hot, The white "stuff" is a ceramic, so it handles the heat, but is fragile.

The ceramic is used to hold the resistor wire in place as it only takes a few back and forth bends to break it

 

 

[Kosage Chavis]

4 hours ago, Beemon said:

I believe the air duct tubes were the same for Cadillac, too? Could be wrong.

 

I wish I could do this conversion on my 56, but I think the 55 and 56 system are two completely different animals in terms of duct work and what not.

 

The crank pulleys will be your hardest challenge I think. Good luck!

I do have a pair of air duct tubes, but they fit on the Super/Roadmaster.  I need the ones that fit the Century/Special.  I do like the 56 A.C. systems better than the 55 because that system seemed to be more simplified and was moved to the front.  However, the 55 system is very unique and adds character to the car in my opinion.  I believe sooner or later, I will find those pulleys.  Just got to be patient.  Thank you.

[Paul Falabella]

14 hours ago, Beemon said:

I believe the air duct tubes were the same for Cadillac, too? Could be wrong.

 

I wish I could do this conversion on my 56, but I think the 55 and 56 system are two completely different animals in terms of duct work and what not.

 

The crank pulleys will be your hardest challenge I think. Good luck!

56 A/C used the more modern, cowl mounted evaporator. Adding factory A/C to a 55 would, in my opinion, be a much more ambitious project. Between accurately mounting components, long lengths of plumbing,numerous gas tight unions,not a project to be taken lightly. That said, good luck, keep us posted.

 

Edited August 17, 2016 by Paul Falabella
Photos (see edit history)

[Kosage Chavis]

Thank you Mr. Paul.  I will definitely keep anyone who is interested posted on any progress I make, whether it is the A.C. system or the whole car restoration in it's entirety.  Got more pictures I need to post soon.  Also, would you mind posting or sending more pictures of the various parts of your A.C. system?  Thanks so much.

[Paul Falabella]

12 hours ago, Kosage Chavis said:

Thank you Mr. Paul.  I will definitely keep anyone who is interested posted on any progress I make, whether it is the A.C. system or the whole car restoration in it's entirety.  Got more pictures I need to post soon.  Also, would you mind posting or sending more pictures of the various parts of your A.C. system?  Thanks so much.

If you have the body and chassis parts books, there are some good views of the complete system. If I'm not mistaken the 54 set up is only different in the reciever location and the side ceiling vents. The receiver is under the front bumper on 55's. see pic, mine has been cut and the desiccant replaced, rewelded and painted.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Paul Falabella (see edit history)

[Kosage Chavis]

I don't have a body and chassis parts book right now.  All i have is the shop manual which at least illustrates where each major A.C. component is at on the car.  What would be helpful to me is to have pictures of the more detailed things that the shop manual  does not show.  If I may...

Views of crank pulley

Views of water pump pulley

Views of radiator fan

Views of braided hose clamp locations 

Views of copper line penetrations (front)

A.C. resistor 

I think that would do for now.  I do appreciate any help you provide.

[Paul Falabella]

I'll get those other shots for you. In the mean time this may come in handy. A/C wiring diagram in living color!

[Paul Falabella]

Fan is 5 blade. Posting here in case anyone else needs to see.

[Paul Falabella]

Resister is black due to overspray(not me!)

Hope these help.

[Kosage Chavis]

So I have a couple of questions...

What color wires hook up to the resistor.  In the diagram, it only shows the black and Orange hooked to it.

Also, how many brackets hold up each A.C. line.  I can clearly see one from one of the braided lines.  Thanks again for all the pictures.

[Paul Falabella]

Re: The resistor. There are 3 wires, Orange, Yellow, Black on mine. Either it is an error on the schematic or the fan was two speed in some applications,mine is 3 speed(maybe 54 was 2?)but there is black and two taps. 

 What brackets do you mean? There are quite a few A/C lines, some through grommets,some tied, probably 25 feet or more of lines.

[Kosage Chavis]

Okay so, I know that there are 3 connections on the resistor.  Does it matter which colored wire goes to which connection?

 

As far as the A.C. line brackets, I was just talking about the A.C. lines just forward of the firewall.  I can tell that with your condenser- to- compressor braided line, you have one penetration and one bracket.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  How about the other braided line?  And the smaller A.C. lines?

Edited August 19, 2016 by Kosage Chavis
Spelling (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

So, if I want to run R-134 in my 55 Roadmaster is it possible to rebuild the pump to use such ?  

 

And, if so who actually is doing this type of pump rebuild today (in August 2016).

 

I am guessing I will also need a new condenser

 

And, new hoses

 

And, dryer will need rebuilt as well

 

 

[Paul Falabella]

Re the resistor:I think the position of the wires would affect the fan speed control. Wire as per picture. 

Re A/C lines: The lower braided hose goes aft to the hot gas bypass and evaporator. Can't get a pic unless I jack the car up but you should have a routing diagram in the shop manual. Other pics are inside evaporator and close up of expansion valve. 

[Paul Falabella]

7 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

So, if I want to run R-134 in my 55 Roadmaster is it possible to rebuild the pump to use such ?  

 

And, if so who actually is doing this type of pump rebuild today (in August 2016).

 

I am guessing I will also need a new condenser

 

And, new hoses

 

And, dryer will need rebuilt as well

 

 

I would contact Classic Auto Air regarding 134 conversion. I have dealt with them(R12 stuff) and they are great to deal with.

[Kosage Chavis]

Well is there any bracket that holds that braided line that goes aft?

 

I am also curious about the smaller copper line with the sight glass.  I thought I saw one of the brackets right next to the sight glass.  Are there any more on this specific copper line?

 

 

[Paul Falabella]

Braided line is supported under chassis and at compressor. Noticed my sight glass line is missing grommet. 

[old-tank]

What exactly are you missing?  Or if it is easier to answer:  what exactly do you have?

It is certainly admirable to use old technology and get it working.  I have 2 Centurys that I drive all over the country with factory air, but these cars came with factory air.  And one needed a parts car (and junk yard purchases) with factory air to get it all routed right and working.  Along with all that I had a complete car to refer to.  I also helped a (very misguided friend  ) install factory air in his car.  He had  a fairly complete pile of parts but we still needed some from my parts car and one of my working units to refer to.  Even with all that we made some "modifications" due to missing parts.

Those braided lines (they are called vibration eliminators) are available but not in original lengths which means that when you replace the length and clocking has to be perfect which is near impossible if you don't have one to begin with.

If you car never had factory air you will need a parts car or template to locate where to drill holes in the trunk (I cab get that for you after the snakes and wasps go away in 3 months).  That's just part of the fun:  you will need to control a hole saw attached to a drill with a 90* attachment.  The trunk lid will need to be removed along with the torsion bars (good luck getting those back in place) to install the evaporator box.

What exactly are you missing?  Or if it is easier to answer:  what exactly do you have?

Willie

[old-tank]

13 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

So, if I want to run R-134 in my 55 Roadmaster is it possible to rebuild the pump to use such ?  

 

And, if so who actually is doing this type of pump rebuild today (in August 2016).

 

I am guessing I will also need a new condenser

 

And, new hoses

 

And, dryer will need rebuilt as well

 

 

To use a refrigerant other than R-12 you will need to change the oil in the compressor from mineral oil to ester oil.  I you have a completely clean and new installation PAG oil can be used.  But ester oil will mix with residual mineral oil and can be used with R-12 or any other refrigerant.

R-134 will work but will not cool well (it would cool better if you had larger and more efficient condenser) and the pressures are much higher.  I use R-152a, which gives lower pressures than even R-12 and cools as well or better and is much cheaper.  If you have a working compressor see my website for tips on how to replace seals and O-rings.  If it needs 'hard' parts like valves or bearings, then Classic Air might be able to help.  If it is locked then it is useless.

Your condenser should be ok unless full of rust from being exposed to moist air.

Old refrigerant lines can be reused unless leaking (if leaking it is usually the the high pressure discharge 'vibration eliminator').

I leave the receiver/drier alone and install a filter-drier in the liquid line at the fitting just in front of the rear wheel.

Willie

[Kosage Chavis]

Mr. Paul.  Those were really good pictures that you just took.  Thanks so much.  So it looks like the compressor-to-aft braided line has just one bracket right beneath the firewall which looks like it is mounted to the car frame.  And it looks like the smaller copper line with sight glass only has one bracket, which is mounted to the passenger side wall of the engine compartment.

[Paul Falabella]

1 hour ago, Kosage Chavis said:

Mr. Paul.  Those were really good pictures that you just took.  Thanks so much.  So it looks like the compressor-to-aft braided line has just one bracket right beneath the firewall which looks like it is mounted to the car frame.  And it looks like the smaller copper line with sight glass only has one bracket, which is mounted to the passenger side wall of the engine compartment.

That's what's visible under the hood. There is another universe of copper tubing,soldered and coupled under the vehicle and back to the evaporator.What parts do you have on hand?

Read Old-Tanks comments,pretty much everything I know he told me. If anybody knows the ins and outs and doability of mid 50's A/C projects, it's him. 

[Kosage Chavis]

49 minutes ago, Paul Falabella said:

That's what's visible under the hood. There is another universe of copper tubing,soldered and coupled under the vehicle and back to the evaporator.What parts do you have on hand?

Read Old-Tanks comments,pretty much everything I know he told me. If anybody knows the ins and outs and doability of mid 50's A/C projects, it's him. 

I have all the parts right now, with exception to the water pump & crank pulleys, scoops and air ducts.  I actually had the pleasure of speaking with Mr. Willie over the phone.  Between him and Mr. Lamar, they have taught me a good amount so far.  But I know there is more to learn.  I have read over Mr. Willie's website.  It won't be last and I have it bookmarked on my phone.  Right now, I am just trying to get a visual of some of the smaller details of the A.C. system.  

[Kosage Chavis]

Okay, so now I have yet another question.  As it stands, I still need the 3 groove pulleys for my 55 Century (water pump and crank).  Can either of these pulleys used on a 55 be the same on any other year of Buick?  What about other GM makes (Chevy, Pontiac, Olds or Cadillac)?  Thank you.

[old-tank]

54-55-56 Buick only.  When contemplating installing a/c in my 51 F-1 with the 264 nailhead, I was going to use an original A-5 compressor...weeks of research:  54-55-56 Buick only.  In addition the 3 groove pulley for the 264 is even more rare.  54-55-56 Buick only!

[Kosage Chavis]

3 minutes ago, old-tank said:

54-55-56 Buick only.  When contemplating installing a/c in my 51 F-1 with the 264 nailhead, I was going to use an original A-5 compressor...weeks of research:  54-55-56 Buick only.  In addition the 3 groove pulley for the 264 is even more rare.  54-55-56 Buick only!

Hey Mr. Willie.  It's funny that you mentioned that those 3 groove pulleys are so rare.  The very first A.C. items I got for my Century came off a man's 55 Special with those very rare pulleys you speak of.  I will have to post some pictures.

[Kosage Chavis]

Here it is...55 Buick Special with AC.Here are those rare 264 3-groove pulleys.  Notice the crank pulley is one solid pulley versus the 2 groove and 1 groove mated together with spacer.  Also, the water pump pulley is just three 1 groove pulleys mated together with spacers versus the 2 groove and 1 groove pulleys mated together with spacer.This is just for those who might want to know.

[NC-car-guy]

1 hour ago, Kosage Chavis said:

Here it is...55 Buick Special with AC.Here are those rare 264 3-groove pulleys.  Notice the crank pulley is one solid pulley versus the 2 groove and 1 groove mated together with spacer.  Also, the water pump pulley is just three 1 groove pulleys mated together with spacers versus the 2 groove and 1 groove pulleys mated together with spacer.This is just for those who might want to know.

Right because the 264 did not use a harmonic balancer