GaryP65 Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 So I'm having trouble starting the beast. It used to run OK but now I can't get it to start at all. I went thru everything and after a little gas directly into the cylinders, it light up for a second so it looks like fuel is not making its way to the engine. The reason for the post title is that I think (although not 100% sure) the pin is sticking in the metering valve. Is it suppose to be attached to the rack? The valve moves freely and yes the vacuum tank has been serviced so I know its not that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) I MIGHT be able to find photos........checking now. Edited July 12, 2016 by cahartley (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted July 12, 2016 Author Share Posted July 12, 2016 How did I know you were gonna be the first to answer?! And the best part..... you're gonna have the right answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 LOL........well........I can't help a LOT of folks.........but I try when I can. Yes, the rack setting is critical. The "choke" lever must be pulled all the way up on the spring side. That spring MAY need to be fairly strong to return the "choke" to its normal position. It's not really a choke.......it's a flooding device for starting.......so if the spring doesn't pull the lever back ALL the way back the engine will run rich.......maybe extremely rich. The knurled adjusting screw is a controlled "choke" for idling. Once that is set the vacuum operated mushroom shaped "metering valve" takes care of the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 On the top of the round rack is a screwdriver slot that allows you to separate the rack and the hollow nut , below this is a brass washer that is soldered to the bottom of the pin ,when reassembled the pin and washer are held in place by the hollow nut and allows the pin to move freely in the rack . The reason for this is so it does not rub or get caught in the air valve and stays in the rack . The pin must be free in the rack. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22touring Posted July 12, 2016 Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) Excuuuuse me, Gary, if I am totally wrong, but hasn't your metering pin become separated from the rack? I thought it was supposed to be swaged to it, more or less permanently. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks. If I remember correctly, I had the same problem with my car, and I had to silver solder the metering pin back onto the rack. But that was about 25 years ago, and I also had to fix a lot of other things on the car at the time, so I am having a little trouble remembering all the details about that particular repair. Edited July 12, 2016 by 22touring (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 Wow Bob. In looking at the rack I would have never known that the top screws off. I admit I thought it wierd there was a slot but who knew! So I took it apart and sure enough there was the washer. I promptly solder the pin to the washer and will install it tonight. Thanks for all the help guys. I'll let you know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 (edited) Some pics for anyone who has not seen the needle and rack apart. note the face on the washer with the step goes to the pin side. Bob Edited July 13, 2016 by robert b (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted July 13, 2016 Share Posted July 13, 2016 Thanks cahartley . Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 ^ It takes a village to keep these things going!........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) OK so all together and starts right up but for only 5-10 seconds. Of course that's with the choke all the way in. When I pull out the choke, it wouldn't start at all. I understand the position of the pin is important so can someone tell me if there is as measurement the the pin protrudes from the gear housing? I'd rather know that than do a trial and error thing. Edited July 17, 2016 by GaryP65 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Is black smoke coming out the exhaust? This is where the "bell crank stop screw " comes into play. Think of it as the idle mixture screw except it functions backward. The more you screw it IN the richer the mixture becomes so think backward if this is the issue. Don't ask me how I know....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22touring Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 "starts right up but for only 5-10 seconds" If the metering pin becomes detached from the rack, it will get stuck in the air valve and do that. It will either run for a few seconds or it will run until you come to a stop, when it will die and not re-start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 Taken care of already. Soldered it the the washer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 OK.......I'm on pins and needles........what happened? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 LOL! I understand the concept behind it but just can't get it to go more than 10 seconds.I know the valve is moving freely so its got to be the pin. I've moved it up, down. I even faced west and nothing better than 10 seconds. I even said a Novena (I'm a Sicilian from Brooklyn), nothing! I thought the washer may have come off the pin so I took it apart. It was good so I readjusted the height..... same. I'm going back to flying my remote control planes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Gary latter tonight I will copy the needle adjustment instructions to set the needle height ,very easy but better to read it from the Stewart book than me describe it to you , also you could try taking off the vaccum line on the vaccum tank an block it and try a start, the reason being that the vaccum could be holding back the fuel flow to the float bowel ,if it runs for a longer time than before it is possible the flap valve in bottom of the inner tank may not be sealing and when vaccum is applied .It is possible that the switch vent valve in the top of the vaccum tank could also be not letting the inner chamber to vent and hold back fuel flow , or the vent tube be blocked by a insect nest ,just things to check . more latter Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 That would be great Bob, thank you! I took care of the tank some time ago with help from the experts here so I'm confident it is in good working order but I just may try that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Dang it.......now I have to go out to the shed again to see if the Dodge Brothers Bible has anything to say about how to engage the metering pin with the rack....... ........stay tuned. No soap........the book is silent on that. Until Bob comes back have you removed the float cover off the carburetor immediately after it quits? Maybe it is running out of gas....... Edited July 18, 2016 by cahartley (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 No but once it dies, it starts right up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Curiouser and curiouser....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Had trouble uploading pages not in order but pages 10 and 11 and pic will give you the information on the metering pin setting , if more help needed ask bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Awesome. Thank you Bob. Looks like page 11 is the key. Hopefully I'll get to try it tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 So, got home early............ Checked out my first attempt at pin placement as compared to the manual, looks like I was right there. After minor adjustments, put all back together AND....... SAME! So, blocked the vacuum line and SOB, it kept running!! Looks like I didn't do so good on the tank. Gonna take it apart now. Stay tuned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryP65 Posted July 19, 2016 Author Share Posted July 19, 2016 Ok. I'm stumped. Took the tank apart and it's still clean and working good but sprayed carb cleaner on it anyway. Put it back on and this possessed vehicle decided that it wants to run fine now. It has to be a woman. Whatever, I'm gonna chalk this one up and move on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I have a hunch the flapper valve might have been the cause. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Glad to see it is working now , yes you are right they do some times have a mind of there own , women ? it is some times best not to comet on such subjects if one wishes to live a full free life. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwollam Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Make sure the vent on the vacuum tank is open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy510 Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Just to add personal experience to this post in case it helps someone in the future: My 1929 Standard 6 had stymied family members for years. Always ran rich as hell, belching smoke and dripping fuel from the exhaust pipe. Once I was in a position to take a look, I took a systematic approach. First, vacuum fuel pump. I discovered pin holes in the inner tank, and a broken flapper. Fixed that with a new flapper and fuel tank liner to seal the holes. Second, sticking air valve in carb caused by varnish on shaft. Sticking a finger in the air inlet throat one should be able to raise the air valve up smoothly. If not, take it apart and clean it. Make sure it is not stuck due to a bent metering pin. Third, the metering pin rack was totally mis-adjusted. There is a procedure for setting the rack location relative to the drive pinion that must be followed if the rack has been disassembled, or if there is any doubt as to its correctness. Mine was off, so the metering pin was allowing in too much fuel. Fourth and most important: the metering pin has a small washer/cylinder swaged to the bottom of the pin. This pin/washer assembly fits tightly into the TOP OF THE METERING RACK. It just so happens that the underside of the metering rack, where the spring goes, is the same diameter as the top portion. My metering pin had been assembled from the bottom of the rack up. It fits that way, and it is captured in the rack which seems to make sense because it would prevent the possibility of pin from being separated from the rack and getting sucked up into the valve. Problem is that in this position it cant go up high enough to properly meter the fuel. So, be sure the pin is connected to the TOP of the rack, not up through the underside. Franky, its a bad design...the pin should be captured, but..... Once I got these corrected and adjusted the throttle pedal to allow full range of throttle, she ran better than she probably had in the last 25 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stakeside Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Great carb once they run correctly. Had mine rebuilt and it runs great. A little pricey but very happy with performance. Engine starts right up. Figured for the investment in my truck a good preforming engine is important. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutdown Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 My car has not been run for over 50 years so after a full restoration of all running gear and reconditioning the engine, its time to get the bugger going. First up, my mag wasn't up to it so has gone away for rebuilding. Have fitted a temporary coil ignition system but finding the carb is a problem. I read somewhere a comment about the steel balls in the dashpot. I found one of mine had jammed up with some corrosive whitish looking substance, which I managed to clear. I presume the balls are supposed to act as a one way valve, and mine are definitely corroded . What is the function of these "valves". I have cleaned the carb components where I could, and made up new gaskets where needed. My needle and seat in the float bowl appear to be working well. I can suck on the inlet and the vacuum holds as well as when the carb bowl is full of fuel, it doesn't leak out when disconnecting the inlet pipe but It does leak out once I have lifted the needle and then let it go. My vacuum fuel pump is working well. I had read up about how to set this carb up, but the comment above about setting the metering valve down by 1/16 inch was not mentioned. After reading this thread, I reset the needle down the 1/16th and cured the over fueling problem I had . There was so much fuel coming through it fouled the plugs. All I could get was the occasional bang through he exhaust. Spark plugs, HT leads, coil and distributor are new. Compressions are good. Plugs are firing and the timing is set to TDC. [ I have marked TDC on the fan pulley and remote drive housing] . My starter is not up to turning the engine over with the plugs in although it turns it over when the plugs are out. We have been towing the car around a paddock to attempt to get it going. It would be nice if we could get it started and running to some degree [ before it's 100th birthday on 17th May ], in order to diagnose any faults that need correcting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Page 11 of the instruction book speeks of the 1/16 down setting . bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 "I read somewhere a comment about the steel balls in the dashpot. I found one of mine had jammed up with some corrosive whitish looking substance, which I managed to clear. I presume the balls are supposed to act as a one way valve, and mine are definitely corroded . What is the function of these "valves". Cutdown I Think the balls serve as an accelerator pump. The idea being that when the throttle is open, (low vacuum), the increase in air flow causes the dashpot/metering needle to raise until an equilibrium is reached. I've got a carb on the bench and will refresh my memory when I next have a chance to look at it. Lapping compound is often too coarse for seating valves such as these or carburetor needles. Better is slurry of water and abrasive cleaner such as Ajax or Comet, (USA products). An 1/8"/3mm wire silver soldered to a steel ball of the correct diameter will provide a good handle to spin the ball and lap the seats. The function of these carburetors, (are less refined but), operate on the same principals as SU and Mikuni. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) The dashpot is a piston with fuel on both sides of it. When the throttle is opened the rising metering valve lifts the dashpot/piston and, (since the check balls are closed), fuel on the upper side of the dashpot is pumped up the aspiratating tube as an accelerator pump. Without the check balls, fuel below the dashpot would prevent it and the metering valve from going back down. Edited February 3, 2023 by nat error in details (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutdown Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 ok. Tested again today. Ignition working ok. Jumping direct from my Landcruiser to the starter as well as igniting the starter from the cars own battery, we were able to turn the engine over continuously. Could not get it to fire so went through the procedure of tow starting again,. We actually got it to start and run briefly then conked out. [ after checking, we found the fuel tap turned off. ]This suggests that the carb was still over-fueling but as the fuel level lowered it was able to run until the fuel level got too low. [ that's the theory ]. Carb was definitely throwing fuel everywhere out the intake and into the engine. Removed the carb [ and saw the evidence of overfueling as above ] and found that I had set it up correctly but had since wound the main jet [ metering valve ] up till it was just about touching the "Dashpot". Ok. either the main jet is worn too large [ the needle looks fine ] or the fue level in the float bowl is too high. Can anyone out there who knows these carbs, tell me what the correct fuel height should be in the bowl? Can someone also tell me how to remove the dashpot assy in order to inspect it. MIne appears to be stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 It sounds like it's sucking fuel through the vacuum line which it can do with the fuel shut off. If the dashpot moves freely it should run, (however well or poorly), even if the metering pin isn't up to snuff. Fill the vacuum tank, disconnect the vacuum line and see what happens. With what you've described, your plugs may be fouled from all the fuel. The metering valve head, (M), screws onto the metering valve stem, (N), for removing the dashpot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Gregush Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) Could be the check valve ball(s) are stuck open or missing in the dashpot piston, allowing too much fuel in. They are in passage "I" in the above diagram. Or could be needle on the metering pin "W" is broken or too short. Could be the float has a hole in it and is sinking or the float needle valve is bad and not sealing. Or could be a combination of many things. Hard to put a finger on it with you there and us here and no eyes from us on the situation. Edited February 7, 2023 by Mark Gregush (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutdown Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) Those check balls are corroded to hell. Sounds like I need to get that apart somehow and make new parts. Float is ok. I think the vac tank is working ok, but I can check that out as well. Many thanks. Thrown some light on the problem. Does anyone know what the height of the fuel should be in the float bowl. Also, what is the size of the main jet orifice. The main jet needle looks good, but have not got the dimensions for that either in order to measure it. Edited February 7, 2023 by cutdown (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nat Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 The dashpot and it's check balls only serve to "lift" some fuel as the metering valve head rises. If the balls were removed the carburetor would function in all respects other than bogging, (for lack of fuel), upon acceleration. With the fuel shut off between the vacuum tank and carb, the only way fuel could flood the engine, (as you described), is through the vacuum line between the engine and vacuum tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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