57 buick special starting issue

[buicknewbee]

I am having a problem with my 57 buick special starting after driving it for a while, shutting it off to do something for 20 or so minutes, and return to the car only to hear the starter not wanting to turn the motor over. If I raise the hood and return a half hour later it will crank and start with no issues. The starter and solenoid look like they have been replaced not too long ago. I am wondering if there should be a heat shield over the starter? Any ideas?

[JohnD1956]

If you need a heat shield to protect the starter, then you should replace the starter. Chances are this is just the solenoid however.  The chances are better that you have some corrosion at one or more battery terminal ends. First place I would start is the negative terminal, where it grounds to the frame or engine.  Remove and clean the end, as well as the frame mount point.  PS, this includes the braided ground straps at the back of the motor to the firewall.

 

[SpecialEducation]

I don't know about '57 specifically, but earlier years had heat shields so I'd assume you should, too.

 

Can you expand on the "starter not wanting to turn the motor over?"  Am I understanding that the starter engages just fine, but it just doesn't have the guts to rotate the engine?

 

I've got a SBC that does that from time to time.  It seems to be fairly common on Chevys, based on forum posts I've read, but I've never taken the time to really track it down.  The typical answer is heat soak, with the resistance in the starter/solenoid going up with the heat.  Some have said a simple shield or blanket has done the trick.  Others have said that a small adjustment in ignition timing has helped, but I don't think I'm sold on that one.  The third theory is carburetor related, with heat soaking the carb causing fuel to expand and dump into the non-running engine.  I know my carburetor is not healthy, but I wonder if there could really be that much fuel in the bowl to jam things up like that, and if so, how have I not blown or cracked something yet?

 

The fact that it looks like someone has been in there recently suggests that someone else chased the same problem.  While replacing old bad parts with new bad parts happens from time to time, I'd look elsewhere first.  As JohnD suggested, I'd check your grounds first.  Heat=resistance applies here, just like everywhere else.  Pull them all lose, clean 'em up, and put them back together.  You could also try temporarily adding a ground strap to bypass the frame and simplify the path.

[old-tank]

When it get into the 'no crank' condition apply 12v+ to the black 10g wire going to the solenoid.  If it starts now, then replace the starter relay.

[1957buickjim]

Newbee,

 

I have had the same problem. First, do what JohnD said about the connections. All of them, not just the ground, and see if that doesn't help the situation for start. There are the battery cables ( positive and negative, the starter motor harness (1 large cable and 2 smaller wires), the junction block connectors, the starter solenoid connectors, the engine ground straps, the battery terminals, the body connetions for the grounds) to name most of what you need to inspect and clean. Second, make sure your battery is up to snuff and is charging well. It could be that the battery doesn't have enough hot cranking amps to start the motor. Check this charging at the voltage regulator. You should be seeing 13.5-14 volts going into the battery. If not, that could be the culprit, or lending a hand to the no-start condition.

 

1957 engines did not have a heat shield over the starter, they were located low enough, it seems, that underbody airflow would keep them below thermal loading failures. 

 

More details on the what the "starter not wanting to turnover" means would be helpful too..is it the sound of like the battery is dying or close to that (clicking noise) or more like a whirrr whirrr, but then stops, like the starter is not engaging or solenoid not kicking in.

[Ttotired]

Just a little info, if you can not find a starter for your nailhead (original type), there is a stater to suit an International that is exactly the same except the flange on the nose cone is wrong.

Very simple job to just swap nose cones

Your problem with your car normally comes down to the starter, but you must check the cables ect first as others have said

 

 

[buicknewbee]

This is the reason why I thinl a heat shield would do some.good.

 

[buicknewbee]

Last night I  played around with an idea. I  started it from cold and as always no issue. Let it idel for a while and pulled it up and the rack. Shut off and tried to restart. Nope. It does like a real fast clicking thing like it wants to engage but doesn't. So I  experimented with blowing air on the solenoid and it was hot. All the heat from the exhaust just rises right to it. Blowed air on it for may e 5 minutes then crancked the starter over with no issues.

[buick5563]

I would do two things after making sure your cables are kosher as has been suggested.

Change solenoid. Wrap that pipe with heat wrap (speed section in a Pep Boys / O'Reilly type store). 

The pipe wrap looks better than any "shield" you can come up with, and it won't hurt to lower underwood temps. This is (of course) if you don't want your car judged anytime soon.

[JohnD1956]

Just change the solenoid before making any other changes.  If I read right, looks like you can get it out without removing the starter?   

[old-tank]

23 hours ago, old-tank said:

When it gets into the 'no crank' condition apply 12v+ to the black 10g wire going to the solenoid.  If it starts now, then replace the starter relay.

Did you try this?...a real fast clicking is indicative of a low voltage condition, most likely from the starter relay.  Heat is aggravating the condition.

[Ttotired]

Old Tank is right

Machine gunning is caused by a crap battery (weak or flat) or bad cable connections

 

[buick man]

…. maybe as well the windings on your starter armature are minimal or have partially grounded on the ends of the commutator and applied heat is causing expansion.  

Either that, you need to paint your starter and detail it as only then will it be happy  …. :')

[Ttotired]

Oh yes, I did forget to mention that a poorly or incorrectly painted and detailed engine, and for that matter, engine bay, would greatly adversely effect the starting capabilities of the car, in fact, I have seen this often, particularly at high bling car shows, where very shiny cars with lots of late model stuff in them (I think they call them "restomods") wont start at all and have to go too and from these shows on a trailer. The only cure for these poorly repaired cars is to totally gut them and try and find all the correct missing parts and put the car back together totally factory stock.

I dont understand how so many people fall into this trap, seems every year there are more of them

Looking at the picture of the starter above, to me, it appears to have a little more than the appropriate amount of oil film on it, but it is sadly lacking the correct amount of actual dirt so that during removal, you get 50+y/o gunk in your eye, giving you an affinity with the mechanic of the day that wiped a blob of grease on the starter that the dirt stuck too all those years ago

Good luck with your starting issues, you have a lot of stuff to correct

 

[60FlatTop]

21 hours ago, Ttotired said:

 very shiny cars with lots of late model stuff in them (I think they call them "restomods") wont start at all and have to go too and from these shows on a trailer.

 

I thought all those changes were made because they couldn't fix their cars and had to follow a formula, kind of like writing a country music song, to re-engineer them. I think sometime they get pushed on and off the trailer, too. Cars do tend to be more of an indicator of peer group than mechanical skills in a whole lot of cases.

 

OK, I'll be the first to ask. What do the headlights do if you turn them on in a no start condition?

Bernie

[buicknewbee]

I did purchase a solenoid Friday but I haven't had a chance to install it. I like the idea of wrapping the exhaust with asbestos. I would much easier than shaping a heat shield from scratch.

 

[smithbrother]

And just where will you buy the ASBESTOS?

 

Remember ASBESTOS absorbs water, wet pavement will splash water on the asbestos, and it will fall off.

 

They make exhaust wrap, non-sticky, approx. 2" wide material in a roll.  NOT cheap though, at least the good stuff.

 

You could make a DEFLECTOR, attach it to the exhaust pipe, say an inch or so from touching the pipe, that wouldn't be so hard to make, IMO.  You could pop rivet the deflector  to a couple worm clamps and attach to the pipe.

 

I wish you well,

 

Dale in Indy

Edited June 6, 2016 by smithbrother (see edit history)