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Dodge Dee 2

1936 Dodge starting or firing problem

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Thsi is my first winter with my 36 Dodge which started perfectly in the summer months but now our temerature in UK is down to around 40 F (5 C) I am having starting / firing problems - Battery is good ,cranking over , points seem good,spark plugs are fairly new and sparking . When I do clean them they very qickly turn black with carbon after running for 15 - 20 mins . Electrics are converted to 12V and there is fuel pump which is working . After about 10 times trying to start with breaks inbetween to let the fuel settle it will fire very slowly ,sounds like one cylinder then two then the rest .Once all firing and it runs very well - any ideas what I should be looking for ?

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I had a '36 D2 back in the 70's but can't remember what kind of choke it had. Is your choke manual, automatic or electric?

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If the car is original, it has an electric choke. The fault may well lie there. It certainly sounds like your Dodge is running rich, when it is running, and probably flooding when attempting to start it cold. Others with more time will chime in on how to inspect the choke.

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I had a '36 D2 back in the 70's but can't remember what kind of choke it had. Is your choke manual, automatic or electric?

I need to check - I assume its manual as its original and a cable runs from the dashboard choke knob to the carb

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If the car is original, it has an electric choke. The fault may well lie there. It certainly sounds like your Dodge is running rich, when it is running, and probably flooding when attempting to start it cold. Others with more time will chime in on how to inspect the choke.

As with previous reply I need to check what type of choke I have -thanks for the direction

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The '36 Dodge came with a Sisson automatic choke. Unless the car has been modified the knob you see going to the carburetor is probably a throttle, as no dash knob went to the automatic choke. .

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It was pretty common for Dodges and Plymouths to develop starting problems in cold damp weather. The cure, applied by the factory, was a set of galoshes for the spark plugs. I am not kidding. It is called an Everdry kit and can be bought from Andy Bernbaum Chrysler parts in Massachusetts.

As I don't know what you did to convert it to 12 volts I can't say if that is part of the problem. But it obviously isn't helping. Could be something messed up there.

Have you done a compression test? On these engines, they get hard to start when they are worn out. Normal compression 100 - 110 PSI. They will start and run with 90PSI as long as all cylinders are more or less the same.

These engines are foolers, and will continue to start and run in an advanced state of wear without any alarming knocks rattles or bangs. In fact they make less fuss when worn out, than certain inferior makes when they are in good fettle.

As others have pointed out could also be a choke mechanism worn or out of adjustment. New Sisson chokes turn up on Ebay from time to time. I don't think they are available through normal channels anymore.

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I will check out these galoshes from Bernbaums - and the compression test .Thanks for directions

Farrol

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Are you using an electric fuel pump? If so, check the flow rate and pressure. Sometimes the electric pumps put out more pressure than the original pump and can flood the carb with fuel faster than the engine can use it. Just a thought.

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When converting to 12 volt you need to add a ballast resister inline to the coil. Other wise you will burn up the points quickly. This could cause the symptoms that you describe. Might not really be the weather.

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If the car is original, it has an electric choke. The fault may well lie there. It certainly sounds like your Dodge is running rich, when it is running, and probably flooding when attempting to start it cold. Others with more time will chime in on how to inspect the choke.

When I posted this yesterday, I didn't think about the possibility (perhaps likelihood) of your car being an export model. It could have come with a manual choke, after all. The answer to that is a simple one,...does your car have a knob on the dash that needs to be pulled out in order for the engine to fire when cold? Such a knob would have a big letter "C" on it. It's important in other ways for you to know whether your car was a factory built export model, or a conventional model built for our domestic market that was imported to your country at some point in the past. I seem to recall that models built for export came with the smaller Plymouth engine, thus it likely had a Carter Ball and Ball carburetor and a manual choke. I think the export Dodges had a distinctive model number, perhaps something like D2X. I hope someone with a better memory than mine will chime in on some of these points that I'm making. A conventional domestic model D2, on the other hand, came with a somewhat larger engine than the export models (201 cid, if I recall correctly) and a Stromberg EXV -2 carburetor with the electric choke. The Stromberg model number "EXV-2" is fairly visible on the side of the carburetor's base. I suggest that you will want to check the title or registration paperwork for your car to see what model is indicated thereon. This is also a good time to check the model number of you engine. It's stamped on a flat surface high on the side of your engine block near the front, above the generator. I almost said that it was on the driver's side of the engine, but I realized that we haven't even talked about which side is the driver's side. Please share that little detail with us, as well.

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When I posted this yesterday, I didn't think about the possibility (perhaps likelihood) of your car being an export model. It could have come with a manual choke, after all. The answer to that is a simple one,...does your car have a knob on the dash that needs to be pulled out in order for the engine to fire when cold? Such a knob would have a big letter "C" on it. It's important in other ways for you to know whether your car was a factory built export model, or a conventional model built for our domestic market that was imported to your country at some point in the past. I seem to recall that models built for export came with the smaller Plymouth engine, thus it likely had a Carter Ball and Ball carburetor and a manual choke. I think the export Dodges had a distinctive model number, perhaps something like D2X. I hope someone with a better memory than mine will chime in on some of these points that I'm making. A conventional domestic model D2, on the other hand, came with a somewhat larger engine than the export models (201 cid, if I recall correctly) and a Stromberg EXV -2 carburetor with the electric choke. The Stromberg model number "EXV-2" is fairly visible on the side of the carburetor's base. I suggest that you will want to check the title or registration paperwork for your car to see what model is indicated thereon. This is also a good time to check the model number of you engine. It's stamped on a flat surface high on the side of your engine block near the front, above the generator. I almost said that it was on the driver's side of the engine, but I realized that we haven't even talked about which side is the driver's side. Please share that little detail with us, as well.

yes it does have a knob on dash you pull out . This car was exported to Australia as a rolling chassis and the body pressed and assembled in Aus .Its now been in UK for the last 10 years Not sure if Stromberg or Carter , I have attached some photos of Carb and model number - maybe you can help ID and offer further advice -Thanks Farrol

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post-100096-14314292573_thumb.jpg

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What is the small tube running from the base of the carburetor over to the other side of the engine hooked to over there ?

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1) That is a hand choke all right. I don't recognize the carb, it is not the B&B usually seen on American and Canadian models.

2) Air filter is wrong, originally it was an oil bath, that one is modified or a replacement, and appears bent. Too bad the good oil bath was replaced with a cheap paper filter, but at least you can make sure it is functioning properly;

3) The fuel pump could hardly be in a worse place. It should be mounted at the back, next to the gas tank, low down on the frame. A pump should always push the fuel not pull it. Where it is, it is asking for vapor lock.

4) Check the fuel pressure and if it is over 4 PSI get a pressure regulator, put it on the carb, and adjust to 2PSI. After you relocate the pump. Located where it is, chances are it is over pressuring the carb.

5)The copper pipe on the bottom of the carb is ported vacuum for the distributor spark advance.

6) Plug wires have NO protection, not even the rubber boots or caps usually seen. No wonder they misfire in the wet. Notice that the bonnet seam is right over them, where water can drip down on the plugs and wires.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

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That line goes to the vacuum advance on the distributor. I see only a choke cable and no hand throttle cable so this car must not have an auto choke. Also , that fuel pump looks a little large for the carb, could be wrong though.

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You have a Stromberg carburetor with a manual choke. I don't wish to talk down to you here, but it's important to know that the choke enriches the fuel/air mixture in order to get the engine to fire up initially, but needs to be moved to the fully open position relatively soon afterwards. In fact, as soon as the engine will continue to run without it being on. To leave it closed or even somewhat closed will cause the engine to run too rich and thus foul up spark plugs with carbon. I don't care for the electric fuel pump placement, either. It should be near the fuel tank as Rusty stated, but it probably isn't the immediate issue with your engine running rich.

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Hudsy is right, too much gas(Black plugs). Sounds like its too rich, even before cold weather, so could be a problem other than the choke. Leaking needle and seat, may have a little trash in it and it won`t stop the flow of fuel in to the carb or float level set too high.

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After seeing your pictures we now know a burnt out or improperly adjusted automatic choke isn't the problem. I'm not wild about seeing that big electric fuel pump so close to the carburetor and wonder if excessive fuel pressure might not be the major problem here?

Howard Dennis

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Dodge Dee 2, someone must have had vapor lock problems with your car in the past as they have installed a formidable looking heat shield in front of the carburetor. That's not a bad idea so I'm not suggesting that you do away with it. I, myself, haven't had a great deal of experience with electric fuel pumps. I don't know if they eliminate vapor locking problems entirely or if they play much of a role there at all. The one thing I do know about vapor lock issues with old cars is that it's important that the point where the fuel line enters the carburetor should be the highest point in the whole run from the tank to the fuel pump to the carb. I imagine that in time you will mount the fuel pump in the rear and the rise of the fuel line prior to the carb will be corrected. I'm speaking for many others when I tell you we want to see more pictures of your car. I'm curious to see the details of the body design!

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Dodge Dee 2, someone must have had vapor lock problems with your car in the past as they have installed a formidable looking heat shield in front of the carburetor. That's not a bad idea so I'm not suggesting that you do away with it. I, myself, haven't had a great deal of experience with electric fuel pumps. I don't know if they eliminate vapor locking problems entirely or if they play much of a role there at all. The one thing I do know about vapor lock issues with old cars is that it's important that the point where the fuel line enters the carburetor should be the highest point in the whole run from the tank to the fuel pump to the carb. I imagine that in time you will mount the fuel pump in the rear and the rise of the fuel line prior to the carb will be corrected. I'm speaking for many others when I tell you we want to see more pictures of your car. I'm curious to see the details of the body design!

Plenty of good guidance from Hudsy and others for me to look at so I will tackle this carb as it seems the rich mixture is the cause my problem -Thanks all

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