gilletman Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Hello to all old car enthousiast. I would like to get in touch with owners of Belgian made cars/motorcycles in the states, global wide. recently discovered remains of probely onley survivor of a Frenay car in Finland, and a catalog of this car in Belgium. Also an Elgé was found. all storry's and pictures on my blog www.bloggen.be/pre1930rally. storry's and pictures wil not be publisched if not wanted. We would like to find out wat cars are stil around worldwide. Minerva, excelcior, FN, metalurgique, Delin, vivinus, germain, nagant ........ over 300 brands have been produced. Hoping on lots of responce. gillet.man@live.be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilletman Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 Thanks for visiting the blog. around 250 americans did it, but no responces. Are there no Belgian Vehicles in the states? Surely thre are.Let us know it. Thanks again. Gillet.man@live.be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV Puleo Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) Are there no Belgian Vehicles in the states? Surely thre are.Not many. I'm not certain when it changed, but certainly through the 30s the tariff on imported cars was extremely high (it may have been 100%) making them nearly impossible to sell. Some of the most expensive cars (Minerva, Panhard, Hotchkiss, Mercedes etc) came in to satisfy wealthy Americans and some almost certainly came back from Europe as the personal property of wealthy Americans, but as a percentage of the cars on the road here, they were statistically insignificant. In order to avoid the tariff problem many expensive European cars were built here under license ... Berliet (by Alco), the American Mercedes and the American Napier, Fiat (only the biggest models)...Rolls-Royce of America etc. The Hotchkiss was licensed to the Winchester Repeating Arms Company but never actually built. Before WWI, newspapers and fiction writers almost never mentioned the make of a car in a story. With so many different makes on the road, it was otherwise almost impossible to avoid offending another car maker and potential advertiser. So, heros and villains alike were nearly always described as driving a "Panhard", partly because the name was known and understood but also because there were so few of them (and their customer base so exclusive) that there was practically no one to offend.There were effectively (i.e. statistically) no middle price or cheaper European cars sold here. Add in the low survival rate of pre-WWII cars and the fact that many older collectors don't use the internet and I'd be surprised if you found more than a handful of the cars you're looking for. Edited August 6, 2013 by JV Puleo typo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilletman Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 Not many. I'm not certain when it changed, but certainly through the 30s the tariff on imported cars was extremely high (it may have been 100%) making them nearly impossible to sell. Some of the most expensive cars (Minerva, Panhard, Hotchkiss, Mercedes etc) came in to satisfy wealthy Americans and some almost certainly came back from Europe as the personal property of wealthy Americans, but as a percentage of the cars on the road here, they were statistically insignificant. In order to avoid the tariff problem many expensive European cars were built here under license ... Berliet (by Also), the American Mercedes and the American Napier, Fiat (only the biggest models)...Rolls-Royce of America etc. The Hotchkiss was licensed to the Winchester Repeating Arms Company but never actually built. Before WWI, newspapers and fiction writers almost never mentioned the make of a car in a story. With so many different makes on the road, it was otherwise almost impossible to avoid offending another car maker and potential advertiser. So, heros and villains alike were nearly always described as driving a "Panhard", partly because the name was known and understood but also because there were so few of them (and their customer base so exclusive) that there was practically no one to offend.There were effectively (i.e. statistically) no middle price or cheaper European cars sold here. Add in the low survival rate of pre-WWII cars and the fact that many older collectors don't use the internet and I'd be surprised if you found more than a handful of the cars you're looking for.WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY WITH A HANDFUL LEADS !! maybe there are som cars in musea, colections ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAU Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) Quite a few of the European cars were sold through Britain to the Commonwealth countries, ie. Australia, New Zealand etc and some of these have survived as money and cars were in short supply in those days and they did not manufacture any cars of their own. Consequently, as the weather in most of these areas is reasonable (no snow) what they had was kept in good condition and used for many years and then stored whereas in the US there were plenty of cars at a reasonable price and the old ones were discarded regularly. Unfortunately a lot of these survivor cars have been exported back to Britain in recent years because of their value. Edited August 4, 2013 by DavidAU (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I'm often amazed at the rare and unusual cars that turn up in Australia. One English expert suggested the car companies shipped all their odd, unsaleable and one - off models down under so they could dodge embarrassing requests for spare parts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilletman Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 I'm often amazed at the rare and unusual cars that turn up in Australia. One English expert suggested the car companies shipped all their odd, unsaleable and one - off models down under so they could dodge embarrassing requests for spare parts!He could br write, some metalurgiques, lonts of minerva and fn cars found a way to australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 There a few examples of Minerva, Metallurgique and FN in New Zealand. I suggest you email your request to Beaded Wheels magazine which is the national magazine of the Vintage car Club of New Zealand - beadedwheels@vcc.co.nzMost owners will be members of the club and will be most likely to see your request there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilletman Posted August 5, 2013 Author Share Posted August 5, 2013 goog idea , wil do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 You might check the Roster of the Classic Car Club of America to see how many Minervas (and any other Full Classic Belgian cars?) are registered in the US. I can't seem to locate my Roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidAU Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 This is my Metallurgique. Four cylinder, overhead camshaft, four speed gearbox, four wheel brakes. Factory guaranteed 70 mph over a measured half mile.The first photo was taken about 18 months ago and since then it has been going through a full chassis off restoration including total a rebuild on the engine and gearbox. Hopefully it will be painted in the next few weeks and be back on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5219 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 There was a drop dead gorgeous Minerva sedan on display at the AACA annual meeting a few years ago. It was dark green and was used, when new, in a film with Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire. At the time, it belonged to Drew Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john2dameron Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 There was a green 1927 Sport Sedan and a 1928 Minerva Town Sedan at Hershey October 13, 2007. I would describe the 1928 car as a medium blue-gray with wide whitewalls and a removeable cover over the driver's seat. It had landau irons on the top but I seriously doubt it was a folding top. The 1927 car had a Pennsylvania license on it and the 1928 car had a New Jersey license on it. They were both very elegant automobiles. Tell me what some other Belgian makes were and I will look for photos in my files.There was a very fancy 1929 4-door 7-passenger sedan in the Crawford Museum in Cleveland Ohio in 2005. It was a very heavy car and had dual rear wheels on it. The curator of the museum told me it weighed about 8,000 pounds and that was the reason for the dual wheels. It was a two-tone blue car with fittings such as the door handles made of German Silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5219 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I would be willing to bet that the green 1927 car was the one I saw at the AACA meeting. The owner was a PA resident. The car was very elegant and restrained with blackwall tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilletman Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 This is my Metallurgique. Four cylinder, overhead camshaft, four speed gearbox, four wheel brakes. Factory guaranteed 70 mph over a measured half mile.The first photo was taken about 18 months ago and since then it has been going through a full chassis off restoration including total a rebuild on the engine and gearbox. Hopefully it will be painted in the next few weeks and be back on the road.We had contact before about metalurgique cars. I can inform you that Mr Slaats did found a rear axel for his restauration project, so that now he can start his project. I did send you some pictures and prospects about metalurgique. The yelow metalurgique was sold an i dont know where it went. Regards from Belgium www.bloggen.be/pre1930rally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilletman Posted August 8, 2013 Author Share Posted August 8, 2013 There was a green 1927 Sport Sedan and a 1928 Minerva Town Sedan at Hershey October 13, 2007. I would describe the 1928 car as a medium blue-gray with wide whitewalls and a removeable cover over the driver's seat. It had landau irons on the top but I seriously doubt it was a folding top. The 1927 car had a Pennsylvania license on it and the 1928 car had a New Jersey license on it. They were both very elegant automobiles. Tell me what some other Belgian makes were and I will look for photos in my files.There was a very fancy 1929 4-door 7-passenger sedan in the Crawford Museum in Cleveland Ohio in 2005. It was a very heavy car and had dual rear wheels on it. The curator of the museum told me it weighed about 8,000 pounds and that was the reason for the dual wheels. It was a two-tone blue car with fittings such as the door handles made of German Silver.Other Belgian Brands; Metalurgique, FN, Minerva, Germain, Delin, exelcior, Imperia, Frenay, Elgé, d'aoust, Antoine, Belga, Bastin, Bovy, Compagnie liegeoise 'd'automobile, Dasse, Duryea,DANNEELSD'AOUSTDASSEDECHAMPSDE COSMODE COSTERDE LAMINNE-DUCHENEDELECROIX DELINDEMASSEZDEMATIDEMISSINEDENONVILLEDENSDESIGN BENOIT COINTREAUDE VOGHEL DE WANDREDE WOLFD'HEYNE & BOVYD'IETERENDIETZ CharlesDimma DesignDirectDS DUBRAYDUCHATELETDUNAMISDUREYADANNEELSD'AOUSTDASSEDECHAMPSDE COSMODE COSTERDE LAMINNE-DUCHENEDELECROIX DELINDEMASSEZDEMATIDEMISSINEDENONVILLEDENSDESIGN BENOIT COINTREAUDE VOGHEL DE WANDREDE WOLFD'HEYNE & BOVYD'IETERENDIETZ CharlesDimma DesignDirectDS DUBRAYDUCHATELETDUNAMISDUREYADYLE & BACALANDYLE & BACALANEAGLEEBS ECLIPSEEDRAN CARS societé ELECTRIQUE-MECANIQUE AUTOMOBILEELGE EMMELESCOL L'ETOILEEXCELSIOR F.A.B.F.DFEYENS FrançoisFEYENS T.F.F.F.I.F.FLAIDFLANDRIAF.N. FOIDART & ROSENTHALFONDUFORD FORD MOTOR CYFRANCO BELGEFRENAY F.A.B.F.DFEYENS FrançoisHERMES HERMES (MATHYS-HERMES) HEYMANS HOFLACK HOFKENS HOUGET and much more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilletman Posted August 15, 2013 Author Share Posted August 15, 2013 Other Belgian Brands; Metalurgique, FN, Minerva, Germain, Delin, exelcior, Imperia, Frenay, Elgé, d'aoust, Antoine, Belga, Bastin, Bovy, Compagnie liegeoise 'd'automobile, Dasse, Duryea,DANNEELSD'AOUSTDASSEDECHAMPSDE COSMODE COSTERDE LAMINNE-DUCHENEDELECROIX DELINDEMASSEZDEMATIDEMISSINEDENONVILLEDENSDESIGN BENOIT COINTREAUDE VOGHEL DE WANDREDE WOLFD'HEYNE & BOVYD'IETERENDIETZ CharlesDimma DesignDirectDS DUBRAYDUCHATELETDUNAMISDUREYADANNEELSD'AOUSTDASSEDECHAMPSDE COSMODE COSTERDE LAMINNE-DUCHENEDELECROIX DELINDEMASSEZDEMATIDEMISSINEDENONVILLEDENSDESIGN BENOIT COINTREAUDE VOGHEL DE WANDREDE WOLFD'HEYNE & BOVYD'IETERENDIETZ CharlesDimma DesignDirectDS DUBRAYDUCHATELETDUNAMISDUREYADYLE & BACALANDYLE & BACALANEAGLEEBS ECLIPSEEDRAN CARS societé ELECTRIQUE-MECANIQUE AUTOMOBILEELGE EMMELESCOL L'ETOILEEXCELSIOR F.A.B.F.DFEYENS FrançoisFEYENS T.F.F.F.I.F.FLAIDFLANDRIAF.N. FOIDART & ROSENTHALFONDUFORD FORD MOTOR CYFRANCO BELGEFRENAY F.A.B.F.DFEYENS FrançoisHERMES HERMES (MATHYS-HERMES) HEYMANS HOFLACK HOFKENS HOUGET and much more Those are onley the firs 8 letters of the alfabet ............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilletman Posted August 24, 2013 Author Share Posted August 24, 2013 An Imperia 1936 Sportscar extremely rare is discovered. This car has a 6 cyl knigt engine under the bonnet. And its for sale................. How to put a picture here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillSides Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Hello to all old car enthousiast. I would like to get in touch with owners of Belgian made cars/motorcycles in the states or world wide. recently discovered remains of probely onley survivor of a Frenay car in Finland, and a catalog of this car in Belgium. Also an Elgé was found. all storry's and pictures on my blog www.bloggen.be/pre1930rally. storry's and pictures wil not be publisched if not wanted. We would like to find out wat cars are stil around worldwide. Minerva, excelcior, FN, metalurgique, Delin, vivinus, germain, nagant ........ over 300 brands have been produced. Hoping on lots of responce. gillet.man@live.beHi I am in Australia and have 13 Minervas plus a couple more as bits only. I have Minerva cars ranging from 1904 to 1932 and a 1903 motorbike. Minervas were great cars and sold well in Australia and survived in large numbers despite out harsh conditions but many have been sold off abroad in recent years. Many under estimate the Minerva and get scared of its remarkable sleeve valve engine but they should not as they last almost indefinitely and even tired ones will go well and if used as they were meant to be which means hard. They then don't smoke or give trouble. I do a great many miles in mine trouble free, most models are reasonably fast and able to mix with modern traffic having superb brakes and even the large ones are quite economical in addition. I welcome any correspondence about these fine cars.Bill Sides Melbourne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilletman Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Hi I am in Australia and have 13 Minervas plus a couple more as bits only. I have Minerva cars ranging from 1904 to 1932 and a 1903 motorbike. Minervas were great cars and sold well in Australia and survived in large numbers despite out harsh conditions but many have been sold off abroad in recent years. Many under estimate the Minerva and get scared of its remarkable sleeve valve engine but they should not as they last almost indefinitely and even tired ones will go well and if used as they were meant to be which means hard. They then don't smoke or give trouble. I do a great many miles in mine trouble free, most models are reasonably fast and able to mix with modern traffic having superb brakes and even the large ones are quite economical in addition. I welcome any correspondence about these fine cars.Bill Sides MelbourneHello,Thanks verry much for your reply. Could you contact me on gillet.man@live.be to correspond direct.rgds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 About 40 years ago I knew a pre-1914 Meisse. This had been in one family for many decades, and they were determined not to part with it. It was a small 4 cylinder car, and it looked as if there had been care and craftsmanship in its creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LI_BENTLEY Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 There were two Minerva cars at Greenwich this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gillingham Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 About 40 years ago I knew a pre-1914 Meisse. This had been in one family for many decades, and they were determined not to part with it. It was a small 4 cylinder car, and it looked as if there had been care and craftsmanship in its creation.Ivan, there was a feature on a veteran Meisse in Restored Cars a few years ago, and I think that one had been in the same family since new. I think it came from somewhere North of Melbourne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilletman Posted June 10, 2014 Author Share Posted June 10, 2014 Ivan, there was a feature on a veteran Meisse in Restored Cars a few years ago, and I think that one had been in the same family since new. I think it came from somewhere North of Melbourne.Ivan, Craig, Miesse cars are verry rare, even in Belgium. Onley a handful survived. If you had more info about this car, would be most welcome.PS on july 13 there is the anual MINERVA day at Antwerp Belgium. I wil post some pictures after the event. If anyone is interested to join, you could apply entil june 19. Verry nice day with great food, cars and storry's. All pre war cars and motorcycles welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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