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Auburn Meet

Guest rwmerz

By Guest rwmerz
in AACA - Shows and Tours

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ericmac 10,000+ Points

ericmac

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Posted

I attended the meet and was one of the no-shows. My Model T came for the ride but my '56 Lincoln chose not to participate for HPOF. The weather was very cold and windy, seemingly getting worse as the day progressed. I was wishing for a parka by the end of the day. Despite this, the meet was very worthwhile. Highlights included a '29 Gardner I had never seen before, a Locomobile and a White in the brass era cars and a trio of spectacular brass era Ford Model T's. I was very impressed with a '39 Lincoln (or was it a '38?) Zephyr Coupe in HPOF. The owner was clearly tickled pink with the car and justifiably so. Another highlight was the chance to meet the AACA President who came across as enthusiastic and personable. The club is in good hands with him. My only disappointment? A young member of the club (11 years old) just finished a Model T Speedster with an Ames body. It is a very authentic car in every way but he was told he would automatically lose 40 points for having the wrong body on the chassis. I am confused. Why is it okay to show a Hudson (albeit a very nice one) in this condition, a Duesenberg with a re-created body but not a Ford? Oh, wait. You can show a Model T with a Depot Hack body or a tow truck, or even a fire truck but not a speedster. Something is not right here and it was a turn off to a member who is young, has a car and very much wanted to participate. That rant stated, the show itself was very good. I understand this may be an annual event and I am excited about the prospect. My hat is off to the organizers.

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Steve Moskowitz 25,000+ Points

Steve Moskowitz

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I will try to answer this. The predominant basis for our judging system is how the vehicle came from the factory unless it is a race car or in class 39. You could not get an Ames body from Ford or a Schuco body from the original manufacturer.

You can show speedsters in AACA but you will lose 40 points for a non-authentic body. Remember, you could buy a truck chassis from most manufacturers and put whatever body you wanted on the rear. Thusly, tow trucks, stake beds and the like are acceptable. As far a re-created bodies, they are re-created in a version that was available back in the day. The restoration as such saves a facsimle of history.

Speedsters are fun and most people that build them do so to drive and to enjoy. They are not disqualified on our show fields, they just lose points. I hope someone can tell the young member that enjoying cars is more than just about trophies (the car could very well have still won a trophy of some kind). I also hope he learns that in national shows following the judging rules are important.

The show was terrific! The weather? Could have been a lot better but somehow our order for 70 and sunny got misplaced!

Edited by Steve Moskowitz (see edit history)
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ericmac 10,000+ Points

ericmac

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Steve,

I appreciate your promt response. The meet was very good overall and I fully understand there is little that could be done to control the weather. I was pleased that there were as many cars as we had and truly feel badly that one of my cars did not make it to the show field. Am I correct that this event may become an annual show?

As for the speedster issue, I see a flaw in the logic here. Keeping in mind that Duesenbergs are my dream car and I do not mean to criticize them, with the exception of some short runs of cars like the Murphy Roadsters and the JN cars, they could only be purchased in chassis form. One could go out and add any body from any manufacturer one wished to use. Thus a Murphy, Rubay or Locke bodied Duesenberg would emerge in a variety of body styles. They are period correct and suffer no deductions in judging according to AACA. These are NOT factory bodied cars as created by the manufacturer. They have a factory chassis and are bodied as the owner saw fit (as has been horribly exemplified by the Father Devine car). Today, I could go out and have Fran Roxas, Brian Joseph, R&M or several other restorers recreate a body to the exact specifications Locke, Murhpy or Rubay used to clothe a Duesenberg chassis and show the car at an AACA show with no point deduction.

Here is the problem I have. I could have also gone out and purchased a bare chassis from Ford in 1916. I could then take the chassis to Ames and have a speedster body installed on that chassis. I could then allow that configuration to deteriorate for 95 years and then recreate the body exactly today....and suffer a 40 point loss on an AACA show field. Understand, I am not being argumentative. I am just trying to get my head wrapped around the issue.

The 11 year old in question seems well aware that there is more to the hobby than trophies. Beleive me, the trophy for him is the car. I just felt bad that here we have someone who is VERY invested in the hobby, who also very much wanted his car to be able to compete without a significant point loss, who seemed to feel he was not welcome.

Personally I recall taking my car to a show (not AACA) when I was 16. Granted, it was not a good car at all but I was encouraged to place it on the show field next between a well restored Packard and a '41 Cadillac. My car looked BAD in comparison! Despite this, one person after another approached me with encouragement and welcomed me to the hobby. 30 years later I am still here and know how to restore a car well. My biggest concern is the aging of the hobby. I want to continue to attend car shows and tours. If we fail to cultivate the next generation none of us will be involved because the hobby will be dead. I want to do everything I can to prevent that from happening. If that means we allow speedsters owned by an 11 year old to have an equal playing field I am okay with that.

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motoringicons 25,000+ Points

motoringicons

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Eric- I could not agree more with your thoughts about the Model T speedster situation. It is no different than buying a "chassis only" new from Ford and fitting it with a depot hack body, truck body, etc.

Same goes for the big Full Classics. For example, at the auction this weekend, there was an Auburn boat tail speedster. The car was touted and emblemed as an AACA Senior winner, yet had a reproduction body made out of aluminum. We all know that no production Auburn speedsters were skinned in aluminum and there was no proof that this chassis ever had a speedster body on it to begin with (do you think it could have been a four door sedan, just maybe, just maybe !?!?!?!?!?!?!). Same goes for a significantly high number of Full Classics and other rarer cars with non-authentic bodies that have garnered Junior and Senior awards without any proof of what bodies were originally fitted to the particular chassis. I know this happens at other non-AACA shows and concours as well.

Granted, I am biased as I am a big Model T speedster fan but the logic here just does not make any sense at all. I would rather see an accurate Model T speedster at an AACA show rather than a 1987 Generic four door sedan with its hood up displaying all of its "original" components.....

A Model T speedster is a great way for a young person to affordably learn and experience a true and real old car. My first car,and, literally the first car I ever drove, was an assembled 1914 Model T speedster that I began working on when I was 13 and had it running months before my sixteenth birthday. I actually drove this car-sans driver's license, title or registration-on a Horseless Carriage Club tour before I was a "legal" !!!!!! No one seemed to mind and I was repeatedly told what a great car it was even though it had more than its fair share of faults!

Edited by motoringicons (see edit history)
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Steve Moskowitz 25,000+ Points

Steve Moskowitz

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I have to respectfully disagree with you Bob and Eric. Ames bodies according to ads of the day were meant to be put on "your old chassis" and not new from the factory. Their intent was not to purchase a new chassis and then add a Ames body I don't think. At least from the research I have seen. Of course, I do understand that you could buy a chassis and then do whatever you wished. I was not around in 1916 though!

Eric you made my point though about the classics. Yes, Fran Roxas can you give you a body of a car that was originally built in 1932 but as you stated it could be to the "exact specifications of the original design" and that is what we are looking for. Yes, I also realize that in some cases many classic cars were rebodied several times.

Naturally this should not only be about an 11 year old boy as there are many AACA members who have these speedsters. This part of our judging guidelines has been in the system for decades and is not a new ruling. I sympathize with the youngster but the fact remains we treat his family the same as all other members and he could show the car and have the fun of having his car at our meets. Nothing stopped him and he could have won some type of trophy.

We all know that in the world of brass and classic cars that many cars have had new bodies made. AACA does not decode VIN's and if you think it is remotely possible for our 1,000 plus judges to know everything about every car that is just not realistic. So some cars slip through our system in a variety of ways. Some have awards that are completely legitimate but do not fit the belief system of other clubs or individuals.

All I can say is that if there is a rule we have and you disagree, make your case with the Vice-President of Class Judging. In the meantime, we do have rules that we go by and they are published and available to all. There are no surprises.

I understand what both of you are saying and respect your opinions. I have probably not stated the clubs case very eloquently but have little time for the forum today. Thanks for your thoughts.

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real61ss 2,500+ Points

real61ss

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Probably tomorrow if the staff is not in the hospital with exhaustion and yes, we hope to be back at Auburn next year but it is not final.

Well....it's a great place to have a meet. The plus's are: Trailer parking on site, nice paved lot for the show, all of the hotels were fairly priced and the one we stayed at was really glad to have us there. 79 bucks a night with breakfast and dinner included. Easy trip from back east, straight out the interstate, just gotta pay the tolls. We didn't stay for the BBQ but the Judges breakfast was really good. I can't really think of any minus's. It was an all around great show

BTW...Steve, in one of your posts you made mention of wanting to show off the AACA trailer. The trailer looked great!!! I'd be interested to know what all was done to the trailer and who did it. Was it a wrap or was it completely reskinned.

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real61ss 2,500+ Points

real61ss

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Don't forget abut the new hub caps!!! It's got new hub caps, unless the external weights caused them to fall off on the trip home... or, unless someone at the office caused them to fall off.:rolleyes:

They were fresh off the Bonneville salt flats:D

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paul455 1,000+ Points

paul455

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West DON"T POKE THE BEAR!!! When I pulled into the parking lot on Monday all 4 were gone! When the boss came in I made SOME SORT OF COMMENT ABOUT MISSING HUBCAPS, he said he took 2 of them off. I informed him the other 2 were missing! He was NOT HAPPY!! I hid in the trophy room the rest of the day with a smile on my face.

If anyone driving the Ohio turnpike finds something that looks like a UFO call Steve.

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