Different headlight question

[2seater]

I have toyed with the idea of stationary headlights for the Reatta, off an on, for a few years. A basic question is, will the headlights operate normally without the tilt motors being connected? I believe there is some feedback mechanism to keep them from closing if a light burns out, but not sure if the reverse may be true? I probably could have answered this basic question by trying it myself prior to putting the car away for the winter, but I didn't. Any input appreciated. This is a 1990.

[Barney Eaton]

I believe the answer is.........if you raise the headlight and unplug the motors, the headlight bulb will function normally.

You might go further and try unplugging the headlight module and see if the headlights turn on with the dash switch, I am guessing they will.

Edited December 5, 2012 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)

[handmedownreatta]

I have toyed with the idea of stationary headlights for the Reatta, off an on, for a few years. A basic question is, will the headlights operate normally without the tilt motors being connected? I believe there is some feedback mechanism to keep them from closing if a light burns out, but not sure if the reverse may be true? I probably could have answered this basic question by trying it myself prior to putting the car away for the winter, but I didn't. Any input appreciated. This is a 1990.

i have to ask why....

[Barney Eaton]

The headlight bulb will function normally...... unplugging the motors does not affect the function of the bulbs.

[padgett]

AFAIR the reason for the pop-ups was that NHTSA requires the centerline of a headlamp to be at least 22" off the ground. The expensive pop-up route was taken so that low cars (Fiero, Firebird, Reatta, Corvette) could meet the reg. Once projector (small diameter) headlights came out, the issue went away.

Believe it or don't.

[KDirk]

What Padgett said. Also, I'd point out that fabricating fixed headlamp assemblies with a decent lens that will not look like some rigged up garbage will difficult and expensive, much more so than repairing any and everything that may be wrong with the pop-ups. Even if you need new motors and crank arms on both sides, it is still less effort and money to do that than embark on a engineering and fabrication project of this scale.

Of course, if doing fixed lamps just for looks, have at it. I cannot envision a decent looking way of making this change without other major front end work (hood and upper bumper filler mods) but perhaps others are more creative than I am in finding a way to do this.

Finally, this may run afoul on a safety inspection. Custom lamp housings would lake the required DOT markings and most likely would not be street legal. If adapting something from another vehicle, this may not be an issue.

KDirk

[DAVES89]

Are you considering the Olds Cutlass type narrow headlight to go in the line that the Reatta's cornering lamps are on? That is what I once thought of doing especially when I had a little front end damage on the Black about 2 years ago.

[2seater]

Thanks to all for the input. I believe what Padgett suggested about headlight height to be true, as well as a styling item. I do know what the headlight requirements are and it also includes the requirement that they be as far toward the outside as practical, so inboard of the turn signal modules would be somewhat sketchy as to the legality. Originally I thought about some sort of projector lights in place of the existing assembly but cost prohibitive for an experiment. The low profile 4351 & 4352 rectangular lights from the aforementioned Cutlass/Camaro et al... of the mid-90's would seem to be a possible candidate, although the light output is said to be less than stellar. I did find that there are conversion housings available for these lights to allow removeable bulbs and HID kits available as well. I do not care about that at this time, but just the feasibility of the physical installation. The height of these bulbs is just a little over 2" so my first impression would be to install them above the front marker light bar and install a modified top cover for the existing pop-up housing with the down angle portion at the front removed so the lights are exposed with the cover forming a sort of eyebrow, sort of like the Camaro. A smoother look would be a replacement for the existing cover made from clear polycarbonate (Lexan?) with the upper portion painted to match and just the front left clear. The existing mechanism would be mostly in place so the door could be opened manually for bulb replacement or adjustment. Just an idea at this time.

As to why. My lights work just fine and the only issues I have had are the headlight switch which was just replaced thanks to Jim Finn and the bellcranks were done about 10 years ago. I just find they are butt ugly (IMHO) when in operation. I probably drive using the fog lights at times I shouldn't, to avoid flipping the lights up. I don't imply it is practical or even logical.

[Ronnie]

I just find they are butt ugly (IMHO) when in operation. I probably drive using the fog lights at times I shouldn't, to avoid flipping the lights up. I don't imply it is practical or even logical.

I totally agree. I avoid turning them on as long as possible.

[Doug Harness]

Here's a 2006 post from Alex Houston about his "Riviatta": http://forums.aaca.org/f116/riviera-front-clip-reatta-216105.html

[2seater]

Yes I remember that Riveatta. I thought it was a great job but probably a bit more involved than I am speculating about. Maybe there are others that will bolt up too. Trofeo? I did take a walk through the pick & pull this morning and did not find a Cutlass version. I did find a couple of Camaro's, and I see the light mounting is plastic and extends across the entire front end, and supports part of the nose. That could be removed but the actual light mounts are offset front to rear by quite a bit on each end, due to the rather severe peak to the nose and the far outboard location. Not a good candidate. May come to naught?

[DAVES89]

Hey 2seater, sorry I missed you. We finished that nightmare at about 1:00 pm. Did you see the Troferos out there? They are intermixed with the Reattas and Rivs over the top of the hill. It is the area they are still grading off. Regarding the Camaros if you are looking for a headlight control module they are located on the firewall, drivers side, easy removal, kind of like taking apples off a tree.

[2seater]

Nope, I guess I didn't get far enough up the hill. Must be behind the foreign stuff. Nuts. Just grabbed a couple of MAF's for the L27 model MAF I am running now plus a second spare 3" separate mount MAF, also a possible experiment to extend the flow range.

[DAVES89]

Yup, past the foreign stuff, just me and my '80s-90s Rivs and Reattas...

[2seater]

Well, I will have to take another look soon. I see it is snowing steadily right now, so I will have to see what the week ahead looks like. Very small window ahead since Xmas is coming and have kids coming home for the holidays. I don't know if we will have a non-winter like last year but I keep waiting for that other shoe to drop, like most around here.

[2seater]

I did find the correct area at the pick-n-pull friday. Sort of close to a derelict Reatta were cars with the appropriate headlights and the most flexible of these being a '94 Pontiac Gran Prix. The lights are individually mounted in discrete steel frames, so all four lights are separate, which makes them very flexible for installation. The frames are self-contained and include all retention and aiming functions within a single package. They do just fit inside the confines of the Reatta headlight opening although I doubt they will clear the stock tilt mechanism? A fixed cover to mimic the headlight door may be necessary. Interesting that each light has a built in sideways angle meter as well as an up/down bubble level. These are not important, and may actually be in the way, but a nice feature in any case. May still come to naught, but for $20, I can afford to experiment. Hmm, just thought of something else. I may be able to re-route my intercooler piping for less elbows by using room now taken by the headlights.

Regarding a different question I had posted: I never found a single 1988 3800 engine, or car for that matter. I can't say that they aren't there, but not obvious.

[DAVES89]

2 Seater you must have got there early. I had to go there to get a headlight harness [story to follow]. Too bad you didn't walk around a bit more as a '90 Riv just came in. I just scored the IPC...

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

How does the height of your new lights compare to the height of the front edge of the headlight cover? I'd be tempted to get a spare set of covers and the headlight frames from a junker and see if the front edge of the cover could be cut off and a piece of plexiglass (smoked maybe) be mounted in its place and the lights mounted behind it. Remove unneeded parts of the frame so that things fit. Would then only need to raise the covers to replace a bulb.

[2seater]

I don't have the dimensions right at hand but the bulbs themselves are only 2.16" high. The actual headlight bucket is 3.125" total height, and probably be the bare minimum the carrier frame could be modified to. The headlight frame would probably have to be right down to the top of the clearance lights. I forgot a camera to take a pic of the raw lights sitting in place. What you mentioned is pretty much what I have in mind and it will be close.

As an aside, I did find there are HID conversion lights available for the low beams for <$150, but the other interesting possibility is the "sealed beam" lights can actually be taken apart. The bulb carrier is just siliconed in place an can be removed, taking the halogen capsule with it. The recommended replacement bulb is the 9005 and 9006 Silverstar, which I just happend to have a complete set of. The replacement bulds insert correctly into the rear of the actual light housing and the location of the filaments is in the same plane as the original, so the beam distribution should be correct. The replacement capsule does need to be siliconed in place similar to the original, although I have seen reference to light housings that have a factory style bulb retainer at the rear. The last thing is the replacement bulbs have exactly the same connector as the original, so get the pigtail for the original lights if possible. My plan would be to add a relay to keep the low beam operational when the high beam is engaged. Not the usual practice in the GM tradition but it is allowed per FMVSS rules (if done from the factory), and my wifes PT Cruiser does actually use all four bulbs on high beam.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

If I remember correctly yours is an 89, so I would definitely recommend that you add relays on both the high and low beam lamps to keep the amps down going thru the headlight switch, and allow some high wattage bulbs to make up for the small reflectors and a smoked lens cover if used. Since you have to rewire for the new lamps anyway, it's not that much more effort.

Keep us posted on your developments. Might be worth considering if one does alot of night driving from an increase in mpg with lights down position.

[2seater]

No, mine is a '90, but I am not certain if it has the headlight relay. In any case, I agree that relays would be a good idea and were in my plans due to my headlight switch going bad. I don't think it failed due to overload, but something broke inside because it wouldn't latch in the on position. They worked fine if the button was pushed and held.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Suppose you might have to pull the console side cover and look for the relay if no one can supply the VIN # for the cut in.

[wws944]

Suppose you might have to pull the console side cover and look for the relay if no one can supply the VIN # for the cut in.

If your '90 has the headlight relay, it will be in the console behind the drivers side fuse box cover. It is zip tied to the left side of the fuse panel. (Clearly a 'quick hack'.)

It would be nice to know about when the relay started being installed. I know that a January car I looked at did not have it. My car was built in July and does have it.

[2seater]

I honestly don't know if mine does or not and it is storage now, 15 miles away, so won't know soon. I have had all of that area apart for other reasons and do not remember anything like that. I believe mine is an early '90 car, like Aug or Sep. '89. It probably doesn't matter at this point, because it will be getting something even if I don't make the change. I have been running 80/100 bulbs in my Hella's for a long time, and could kick myself for forgetting about making that modification.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Wow, guess you like living on the edge. That's a lot of amps to routinely put thru the headlight switch and wires if you don't have that relay. May have added some extra heat inside your switch that helped cause the latching mechanism to fail. Guess you'll figure it out in the spring, but I'd design your modification to include an isolation relay as it would be easier to leave it out if you find it's unnecessary rather than adding it in later.