News from England

[R.White]

I suppose this should be posted on the general discussion forum but I thought you guys should have priority. As from November owners of pre 1960 vehicles will be exempted from a mandatory M.O.T. (Ministry of Transport) test. The Government believes that owners of older cars tend to maintain them well and as the test becomes more inappropriate for older cars, they should be exempted.:confused:

As you can imagine, there has been some lively debate on the old car forums here in the U.K. There has been Govt. consultation with historic vehicle clubs and their association found 60% in favour. As it will be voluntary, many owners, me included, will continue to have our cars tested anually for peace of mind, while others forsee a financial advantage in terms of insurance and resale values. At £50 per anum, it represents good value to most people.

We in the U.K. are fortunate in having no restrictions in old car usage and pre 1973 cars are tax exempt. There are concerns, however, that the more we stand alone, the easier a target it makes us for those wishing to curtail our activities.

I should soon be taking my '26 special tourer for it's first M.O.T. test in a number of years - that should be interesting; a fairly heavy car with two wheel brakes! :eek:

What is the way ahead for other countries I wonder?

Ray.

[1936 D2]

So you are willing to pay £50 (or about $75) to have a safety inspection done on your old car every year when none is actually required by law. But you feel the inspection will increase the value of your car (both in the eyes of potential buyers and insurance companies) so if you sell you get a better price or when applying for insurance you get a better "stated value" return after a full loss.

So, I would question, is it necessary to have this inspection, for YOUR purposes, every year? I would hazard a guess that you do not put on anywhere near as many miles as the average owner of a modern car does that is required to have the annual inspection. Why not just do one every 5 years or so? Or maybe right before you intend to sell or change insurance coverage? That may more reflect the inspection rate that is imposed on the "regular" cars.

Consider this; If you plan to keep your car for a while, you will be paying £50 each year but will you see that value returned either at the sale of the car in say in 10 years or if you change insurance companies in say 4 years? Seems like a lot of monies spent for little return. It is nice to have someone else inspect your car to confirm that you have it done up right and it is "safe" but - every year? I don't know about that.

What you are describing is not required over here in all States. You may want to do your comparison with California. They seem to have the most restrictive attitude toward cars in general of all the States. (But their big push for inspections is for air quality. Safety is a secondary thing I think.)

Edited June 12, 2012 by 1936 D2 (see edit history)

[Guest DodgeKCL]

Wanna hava good cry? In Ontario Canada there is no yearly mandatory inspection of vehicles. Only a bi-annual 'smog' inspection on cars made in 1987 or later. Antiques have no annual inspection of any kind and historic plates are $18 on your birthday each year. Insurance for $2Mil PL and PD and assested value is around $100 a year. That's it. The whole ball of wax.

[1936 D2]

Cool!

[R.White]

What you have highlighted is something which has been at the heart of the debate. It is possible that insurance companies could take the opportunity to hike up the anual premiums for cars which take advantage of the new law but clubs may still be able to negotiate advantageous terms for inspected vehicles, i.e. maintain the status quo. but we don't know anything for certain yet. Probably what will happen is that the market will decide whether people stick with the M.O.T. 'ritual' or not and 'modernisation' will eventually snuff it out any way.

I agree with you entirely about the unnecessary nature of an inspection every few miles and I have often wondered why our Government did not introduce a mileage based system or as you suggest a few years in between tests if they had to make a change - that was untill I heared about the latest 'automatic' testing machines which require one man operation and would be inappropriate for very old vehicles. Full, computerised automation may be one reason why they want us out of the way, although some people fear a more sinister motive; but they are generally regarded as scaremongers.

From my point of view, with more of the onus for safety being placed on the car owner, I suspect the police will take more of an interest than they have done hitherto and an M.O.T. certificate,while still available, although not a guarantee of any sort, might at least show willing.

Then again, perhaps I will slip into a more relaxed frame of mind and trust to luck that I haven't missed anything serious; after all, I have never had an M.O.T. failure with a vintage car yet.

Thanks for your interest.

Ray.

[R.White]

Wanna hava good cry? In Ontario Canada there is no yearly mandatory inspection of vehicles. Only a bi-annual 'smog' inspection on cars made in 1987 or later. Antiques have no annual inspection of any kind and historic plates are $18 on your birthday each year. Insurance for $2Mil PL and PD and assested value is around $100 a year. That's it. The whole ball of wax.

I'm just filling out my visa application form............

Edited June 12, 2012 by R.White (see edit history)

[Dodgy6]

Come to Australia.

Once your vehicle is registered to go on the road, which will require your vehicle to undergo a safety inspection and possibly an engineering certificate especially if your vehicle has been modified, you are good to go - no annual inspections ever.

Of coarse the police or the Dept of Transport can pull you and go over your car and give you a defect notice if they feel it is warranted that you will then have to rectify and present.

The only other time you will need to have an inspection is if you want to sell a registered vehicle which will require a current safety certificate.

[Phil 32DL6]

Once your vehicle is registered to go on the road, which will require your vehicle to undergo a safety inspection and possibly an engineering certificate especially if your vehicle has been modified, you are good to go - no annual inspections ever.

Believe it or not, Connecticut doesn't even require a safety inspection when you register any car over 25 years old.

And, no annual inspections or emissions tests...ever!

[jpage]

Pennsylvania does not require inspections on "antique" vehicles and registration is a one time charge,I believe now it's $ 75.00. No emissions test required either! Classic and other registrations are different! 1936D2..how did you type that "pound"symbol, my keyboard doesn't have one!

[R.White]

Thanks for the invite, Dodgy 6.

Can't say I haven't been tempted to leave this class ridden country for lovely warm OZ. Just ask Dodge KLC about his experience over here!! Canada also sounds great and I have family there but it's just too cold for me. Then again, Australia has fires, floods and poisonous spiders, snakes, sharks and jelly fish. But you all seem to survive O.k.

Guess I will stay here in G.B. and reach out accross the sea via the internet. Keeps me happy.

Ray

[Dodgy6]

Thanks for the invite, Dodgy 6.

Can't say I haven't been tempted to leave this class ridden country for lovely warm OZ. Just ask Dodge KLC about his experience over here!! Canada also sounds great and I have family there but it's just too cold for me. Then again, Australia has fires, floods and poisonous spiders, snakes, sharks and jelly fish. But you all seem to survive O.k.

Guess I will stay here in G.B. and reach out accross the sea via the internet. Keeps me happy.

Ray

Ray, I lived in the UK for a number of years. As an Ozzie I always found the class thing pretty funny although in Wales where I was for the majority of the time it was not so prevalent. I suppose as a outsider it is a bit eaier to laugh at stuck up people with inflated ideas of their own importance!

I loved summer time over there with the long daylight hours - nothing better than a few evening pints in a good pub beergarden, but winter was always very tough for me.

Ross

[R.White]

Ross, you have just the right approach. Toffs hate not being taken seriously.

The silly thing is that the class system can be made to work well for all concerned. For example, the Duke and Duchess of Devonshire who own Chatsworth House, a Stately Home not far from me here in Derbyshire are genuinely good people and provide employment for many workers (apart from the House and farm shop, there are some 60 farms on the estate). The whole thing is run as a business and their graces are much loved.

Like much of Wales, the countryside here is idylic and ideal for a warm summer's evening trip out in a vintage car. Stop off at one of the village pubs and interested folk will soon be drawn to the car.

I am looking forward to taking the Dodge out - very few people will have seen one before!

If I get pulled up by the 'Old Bill' it will probably be because they have never seen one either!

Ray.

[Guest john69]

Believe it or not, Connecticut doesn't even require a safety inspection when you register any car over 25 years old.

And, no annual inspections or emissions tests...ever!

Ditto California; no safety inspections, ever for vintage cars, and also exempt from smog requirements, othrwise, same as for any other vehicle; if you have a tail light out, you get a fixit ticket, just like any other vehicle on the road. Think of this; who, in the employ of the jurisdiction, whould be COMPTETENT to do a safety inspection of an antique car?

[Phil 32DL6]

Think of this; who, in the employ of the jurisdiction, whould be COMPTETENT to do a safety inspection of an antique car?

Well, it wasn't always that way. When I registered my first 32DL6 in CT in 1967, they DID require a safety check. They tested the brakes, hand brake, the horn, all of the lights, and the tires. All pretty simple, standard fare.

I'm just surprised they aren't still checking stuff like that, since I had to bring my latest DL6 to the inspection station anyway for them to verify the serial number.

[Guest Killerbunny]

Wanna hava good cry? In Ontario Canada there is no yearly mandatory inspection of vehicles. Only a bi-annual 'smog' inspection on cars made in 1987 or later. Antiques have no annual inspection of any kind and historic plates are $18 on your birthday each year. Insurance for $2Mil PL and PD and assested value is around $100 a year. That's it. The whole ball of wax.

Canada is not bad at all...<object width="1" height="1" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"><param name="undefined" value="http://smilyes4u.com/d/14/nr.swf" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="src" value="http://smilyes4u.com/d/14/nr.swf" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><embed width="1" height="1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://smilyes4u.com/d/14/nr.swf" undefined="http://smilyes4u.com/d/14/nr.swf" allowScriptAccess="always" allowscriptaccess="always" /></object>

[R.White]

I must say how grateful I am that you guys have been responding to this subject in such a positive way; but then that is what I have learned to expect from this forum. There has been so much negativity over here towards the removal of an M.O.T. requirement, that eventually one becomes drawn into it.

I will admit to having had safety concerns, but from what has been said, those fears have been largely ameliorated. Interestingly, although our M.O.T. inspectors are trained to a high standard and the test itself is rigorous, probably too rigorous, there have been reports of younger testers not having an understanding of older cars and the owner having had to explain things to them.

Personally, I have never met an inexperienced M.O.T tester but that is because I have always gone to an old car friendly testing station where older cars are a common sight. Not that standards are lower, but the guy tries to pass the car rather than find some reason to fail it.

From your responses, I am concluding that there should be little to fear with the removal of the test requirement. Things will probably soon settle down to the new situation.

Ray

[Guest stephen48]

In NZ we have a ridiculous requirement to get a full inspection done every 6 months regardless of how few miles you have covered.

Then as well as that the Cops set up roadblocks to make sure you have a current Warrent of Fitness as the inspection is called. If expired a $200 instant fine is issued. Really the whole thing is just revenue collecting !

[1936 D2]

In NZ we have a ridiculous requirement to get a full inspection done every 6 months regardless of how few miles you have covered. ... Then as well as that the Cops set up roadblocks to make sure you have a current Warrent of Fitness as the inspection is called. If expired a $200 instant fine is issued. Really the whole thing is just revenue collecting !

That would be pretty ridiculous if there was a requirement to pay for the inspection every six months. Then, without some kind of "total mileage between inspections" provision, you could be storing an old car and drive it to a couple shows - maybe 400 miles /year total - and need a pay-for inspection! That's a tax - due every 6 months!

Do you pay for registration yearly? Some consider that a "road tax" as well. If all this seems bad, you need to get your national car clubs to petition their lawmakers and fix all that!

[Guest 1930]

Here in Fl it depends on what county you live in as to wether you get your car inspected in various ways, easy enough to get around that of course if need be

[Guest stephen48]

Yes if the car is going to be used on the road it has to have a current Warrent of Fitness that only lasts 6 months from the date of inspection and is not linked to distance in any way.

We also have to pay an annual road tax / injury cover fee that is about half price for cars over 40 years.Still not cheap though!

As you say some times you go 6 months and barely use the vehicle especially if you have more than one yet still have to go through the full inspection process again.

Whenever a review of this ridiculous draconian law has been requested the Motor Trade people squawk and predict all sorts of dire consequences on our roads if the law were to be relaxed. But of course they are the ones who pocket the testing fee ! Most of their testing people do not have a clue when it comes to older vehicles anyhow.

[Ron Lawson]

In Western Australia we as members of a car club have 2 options Full registration if one wants to use their car as a daily driver @ about $500 pa licience and 3rd party insurance The car is examined only once by D.O.T. and does not require any more as long as the registration is not let to laps. Opt 2 is to register your car through a Club for concessional registration ( $50) per annum. The car has to be checked annualy by Club examiners and can only be used on club events. This seems to work ok as we have at least 1 outing a month sometimes more that we can attend We have a 1927 Chev (my wifes car) on consessional and a 1962 S Series Chrysler Valiant with the latter being on full registration Happy Motoring Ron

[R.White]

The conflict of interest issue has long been a bone of contention. That a garage which carries out the testing proceedure should also benefit from effecting repairs to a vehicle which they have failed is a charter for corruption in my view. Some testing stations will trick women, for example,and falsify urgently needed repairs. It is a risk they take at their peril because the consequences can be severe.

My father in law lost his job as a mechanic and M.O.T. tester when a colleague was found to have been selling M.O.T. certificates - the garage was struck off as a testing station; it's now a building site.

Ray

[R.White]

Here in Fl it depends on what county you live in as to wether you get your car inspected in various ways, easy enough to get around that of course if need be

Say Jason, am I right in assuming that there are various "concessions" for old cars in Florida or do people just take a more relaxed approach to these things and not get hung up on rules and regulations?

[MikeC5]

That kind of thing happens over here all too frequently Ray. Some years ago my wife actually had her car sabotaged when she took it into a tire place to get wheels balanced. They slit the CV boots, mis-balanced the wheels so they knew she would return and then put her car on the lift and showed here all the grease splattered everywhere from the 'bad' CV joints. She knew enough that she smelled a rat. Once cleaned up it was obvious the boots had been slit with a razor and nothing was wrong with the rubber. Of course they denied it....

[Guest 1930]

That kind of thing happens over here all too frequently Ray. Some years ago my wife actually had her car sabotaged when she took it into a tire place to get wheels balanced. They slit the CV boots, mis-balanced the wheels so they knew she would return and then put her car on the lift and showed here all the grease splattered everywhere from the 'bad' CV joints. She knew enough that she smelled a rat. Once cleaned up it was obvious the boots had been slit with a razor and nothing was wrong with the rubber. Of course they denied it....

NO, SAY IT ISNT SO !!!

[R.White]

That kind of thing happens over here all too frequently Ray. Some years ago my wife actually had her car sabotaged when she took it into a tire place to get wheels balanced. They slit the CV boots, mis-balanced the wheels so they knew she would return and then put her car on the lift and showed here all the grease splattered everywhere from the 'bad' CV joints. She knew enough that she smelled a rat. Once cleaned up it was obvious the boots had been slit with a razor and nothing was wrong with the rubber. Of course they denied it....

That's real bad, Mike. Sometimes these idiots don't know who they are dealing with.

[Guest 1930]

Say Jason, am I right in assuming that there are various "concessions" for old cars in Florida or do people just take a more relaxed approach to these things and not get hung up on rules and regulations?

I have lived here in FL since the late 80s and have found these Southern states to be much more relaxed in not trying to squeeze every single stinkin last wooden nickel out of its residents such as the tactics played by legislature governing such states like CT. MA. RI ect ect.

Our public officials though have been adoment, hard at work toward that these past few years though to correct all of that but I still would not live any other place.

[R.White]

Easy livin, blue skies, no worries, think I'm movin over there

[Machinist_Bill]

Easy livin, blue skies, no worries, think I'm movin over there

Hurricanes, Alligators, Cockroaches the size of mice, Palmettos, Humidity so bad that NOTHING can be built with wood, hanging shads..........

[R.White]

Trust you Bill! Gone and spoilt the illusion now!

[Guest john69]

Even though all too many people are all too hard on California, so far as government regulation and interference, some perhaps rightfully so, the area of antique car regulation is not one of them; I had to get a serial number inspection to license my '25 Dodge, which was unlicensed since '75 at least and had a change of ownership that was never transferred; I had to pay in excess of $100 for all the paperwork, a one time charge, but my renewals are quite cheap and there are no mechanical inspections whatever, and my insurance is quite reasonable, being much less than half of my other modern vehicles, having been obtained from a specialty insurance carrier, which caters to classic and antique vehicle; bottom line, no complaints. California does have about the highest requirements in the states for smog emissions, but there is a very good reason for that; air quality ---

[Phil 32DL6]

Hurricanes, Alligators, Cockroaches the size of mice, Palmettos, Humidity so bad that NOTHING can be built with wood, hanging shads..........

CT has hanging shad...FL has hanging chads.

[R.White]

hanging shads, hanging chads, ??????? No idea at all. Sorry.

Ray

[Guest 1930]

Hurricanes, Alligators, Cockroaches the size of mice, Palmettos, Humidity so bad that NOTHING can be built with wood, hanging shads..........

Oh sure, forget to mention Mickey Mouse

[R.White]

Donald Duck!

[1936 D2]

hanging shads, hanging chads, ??????? No idea at all. Sorry. ... Ray

Shad is a fish like a herring. Hence the cute girl holding (hanging) a fish.

A chad is the punchout on a card. A hanging chad is an incomplete punchout. Hence the photo of the guy looking closely at the "hanging chad". The Florida connection concerns a new kind of voting machine there that punched holes in computer read cards. There was a very close national election some years ago. Florida was the "swing State" who's votes were delayed being tallied because of the machines causing poor or incomplete punchouts on the cards. All the poorly punched cards had to be visually inspected to be able to finish counting the votes. Needless to say it was a very close election and Florida became famous (a joke actually) for their "hanging chads".

[Dodgy6]

In NZ we have a ridiculous requirement to get a full inspection done every 6 months regardless of how few miles you have covered.

Then as well as that the Cops set up roadblocks to make sure you have a current Warrent of Fitness as the inspection is called. If expired a $200 instant fine is issued. Really the whole thing is just revenue collecting !

Ahhhh right.......now I understand why all the Kiwis are coming over here....

[R.White]

Thanks for that, D2. Absulutely fascinating.

It's such fun getting an insight into the different aspects of life around the world. I particularly like the 'in' jokes between states. Here, we have stereotype jokes about the Scottish being mean, the Irish; a bit thick and the Welsh being sheep shaggers. It's all nonsense of course but they have jokes about the English, so we can all just have a good laugh. Probably not very 'politically correct' these days though.

I just think if you can't laugh at yourself then you probably shouldn't laugh at others and if you cant take what comes, you shouldn't dish it out.

Ray

[keiser31]

CT has hanging shad...FL has hanging chads.

We need a larger photo of the shad........

[Machinist_Bill]

Shad is a fish like a herring. Hence the cute girl holding (hanging) a fish.

A chad is the punchout on a card. A hanging chad is an incomplete punchout. Hence the photo of the guy looking closely at the "hanging chad". The Florida connection concerns a new kind of voting machine there that punched holes in computer read cards. There was a very close national election some years ago. Florida was the "swing State" who's votes were delayed being tallied because of the machines causing poor or incomplete punchouts on the cards. All the poorly punched cards had to be visually inspected to be able to finish counting the votes. Needless to say it was a very close election and Florida became famous (a joke actually) for their "hanging chads".

I stand corrected! My speeling is not alwaays corect at 4am......