Brake conversion

[Guest CFiedler]

Hey guys, new to the sight. My mother has a Reatta with a multitude of problems, one being the abs system. I can't convince her to get rid of it, so I'm stuck fixing it for her. I was thinking about converting the system to a basic vacuum booster set-up. Any ideas/info on the parts I would need? Thanx in advance

[Ronnie]

Hey guys, new to the sight. My mother has a Reatta with a multitude of problems, one being the abs system. I can't convince her to get rid of it, so I'm stuck fixing it for her. I was thinking about converting the system to a basic vacuum booster set-up. Any ideas/info on the parts I would need? Thanx in advance

Welcome to the forum!

Please explain the problem with the brake system. It is likely that you will be able to fix it much easier than trying to convert it to a vacuum system. There are lots of people here who can offer help in fixing the Teves system.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

Hey guys, new to the sight. My mother has a Reatta with a multitude of problems, one being the abs system. I can't convince her to get rid of it, so I'm stuck fixing it for her. I was thinking about converting the system to a basic vacuum booster set-up. Any ideas/info on the parts I would need? Thanx in advance

Yep, did it even updated the abs. The swap to vacuum is not too bad. The abs wiring is a little more tricky. You will need to use parts off a 91 riviera or fwd Cadillac. You have to run a new line to the rear and get the porpotionong valve for the rear line. Also need the master cylinder, booster, and pedal (or you can extend the plate on the existing pedal)

[Guest CFiedler]

I'm pretty sure the entire system is fit for scrap. What most likely started as the accumulator has become an issue with the rest. I know the implications of cost with it, so I was considering the conversion to avoid future problems. A '91, huh? That's great. I was Either going to go backwards to a non abs, or forward to a non-teves system.

[Guest CFiedler]

So, the whole rear line, or could I just splice in the valve from the Riviera?

[Barney Eaton]

If I were considering changing the system, I would want to know what each line and wire did.

Without a factory service manual for the year you own, you will be lost.

With a service manual in hand, you can further understand the Teves system and may change your mind on the conversion.

The Teves system does not just fail at random, like many other things, (except electronics) it slowly degrades and then you get a surprise. By doing basic maintanence on the system (once you have it working) you can identify problem before they occur.

Check the brake information at Reatta Owners Journal - Home and www.reatta.com and that will give you lots of information.

PS you should post the year of your Reatta so people here can better answer questions.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

So, the whole rear line, or could I just splice in the valve from the Riviera?

The 91 uses four lines. not three if you move to three you will risk throwing off the pressure going to the rear.

I do agree with many of the people here on the teeves being a good system, but I also know the maintenace required for it is much more than most people are use to. Thus causing many of the failures seen here. Also price is almost always a factor.

[NCReatta]

I would spend a couple hundred bucks and fix what you have. Unless you want to go with the 91-93 Riv set up like Daniel has.

You'll be spending a lot less time if you just fix what you've got. And if you're like me, you're gonna want to try to keep the ABS.

My neighbor rolled his truck 5 times last week because the brakes locked up. They're on there for a reason.

My opinion, fix what you've got. Worst case you get a rebuilt pump (not likely though) and those cost like $500 or something from Amazon. Probably in Ronnie's Reatta Store.

[William Rule]

I have converted two Reattas to vacume boosted brakes. I would not do it again. I like ABS brakes. Last week I put a good teves system back into my DD and now my Reatta and I are quite happy. Get your teves brake parts from Jim Finn. Fix the teves syster with his tested good parts. I think you too will be happy. I have tried, unsuccessfully. to convert my 90 convertible to vac/boost with ABS. If you really want vac/boost brakes buy a 1991 Reatta.....

[Guest GMguy]

I have similar problems. Bought a 1990 LeSabre back in April, and I'm real happy with the car other than the fact that the brake pedal feels lousy. It's hard to explain exactly. When I first bought the car the ABS was engaging constantly, so my mechanic disconnected the wheel speed

sensors. Since then, the ABS light is on, and while the car generally seems to stop well enough, the brake pedal feels strange. Best I can describe it is when applying the brakes, for a split second it will feel like there is no response, then all of a sudden it is there again. I've mentioned this to my mechanic and he doesn't seem to want to be bothered with it. He just tells me it's safe the way it is, and repairing this system would be super esxpensive if parts could even be found. Since I don't want to scrap the car (or wreck it), what are my options? Would a custom brake shop perform the conversion?

Edited July 30, 2012 by Rawja (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

Welcome to the forum!

If you took it too a mechanic and he didn't want to be bothered with it, did it ever occur to you to take it to another mechanic?

Edited July 28, 2012 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[Barney Eaton]

Read the brake test information at www.reattaowner.com and www.reatta.com

Do the test and you will probably find the problem. It sounds like you do not get immediate "boost" this could be several things but most likely a bad accumulator. I suspect that if you try a PANIC stop, you will have no boost and it will feel like you have no brakes.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

I'd also give some thought to replacing the flexible brake lines and doing a fluid flush and proper bleeding.

Aging rubber brake lines get soft like radiator hoses after awhile, and then when you step on the pedal the first rush of fluid goes towards swelling those weak lines for a bit before it starts moving the piston. Could be why you are getting that delayed feeling in your pedal.

Then we can help figure out why the ABS was always engaging.

[Guest GMguy]

Thanks for the advice guys. To answer your question, Ronnie, yes I could take it to another mechanic but since I know little about this system,

I am afraid of being ripped off by a dishonest mechanic. I will try the brake test and also probably a brake flush/bleed.

[Ronnie]

I understand you point of view but you would be better off doing some research in your area to find a good reliable mechanic that is familiar with working on the Teves brake system. Even though the current mechanic may be honest, by not knowing the Teves system, he may actually unintentionally be costing you money in the long run. You may end up having to take it to a mechanic familiar with the Teves system and he is going to charge you for undoing what your mechanic has done... like disconnecting wheel sensors etc. before he can start troubleshooting your problem. Just my opinion.

I agree with Barney that your problem is probably a bad accumulator. They are available at a good price in The Reatta Store

Edited July 29, 2012 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[Guest GMguy]

Im back, gentlemen, first of all I'd like to say thank you for your time (especially in that I am not a Reatta owner). I have some updates for you. I went out today and re-connected the wheel sensors. It was as simple as re-connecting two wires under the hood. The amber ABS light finally went off. Then I performed the tests you recommended, Barney. The tests appear to indicate that the accumulator is good. I also tried several panic stops at around 25 mph or so, and the car stopped nicely and the wheels did not lock up. The overall brake response is much better with the wheel sensors re-connected, though i still don't like the way the ABS engages for no apparent reason. My next step will be to go to a brake shop and have them flush the fluid and bleed the brakes. I will keep you posted and thank you.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

I'd a little worried about the ABS cycling for no apparent reason as well. There could be a problem with a valve in the valve block or with the EBCM itself.

Go here and learn how to pull the ABS codes:

How To Check ABS Codes

You may have to read the codes, drive the car to clear out the old codes (like sensor errors from disconnecting), and then reread codes to see any codes that reset.

[DAVES89]

If I can offer any advice regarding the Main Valve [which I had trouble with last summer] we just removed the main valve inspected it wiped it clean and reinstalled it. Then it worked fine.

I did have a problem also at the same time where the "red" brake light wouldn't go out. Swapped out the BCM [after doing all the brake tests in the Reatta repair manual] and everything pointed to the BCM so I swapped that out and all was good.

[Guest GMguy]

Hi everybody. More updates. Made a bunch of calls to shops on Monday, and to say it did not go well would be an understatement. Not one of the shops I called even knew what I was talking about when I asked if they were familiar with the Teves Mark 2 system. Granted, whoever is answering the phone is not always a master mechanic, but two shops took my number and offered to call back after conferring with their master tech. The result? No one called me back. I guess I'm back to square one. Another shop which specializes in Saabs refused to work on a Buick. I don't feel comfortable bringing it to someone who doesn't know the system, and I don't think I have the tools or know-how to repair it myself. After driving it with the ABS engaging on pretty much every stop, I decided to disable the system for now and take my chances. I am thinking more and more I'm going to have to have the system converted to conventional, but in the meantime I guess all I can do is have the system flushed and bled and keep looking around for a capable shop to repair it properly.

[Ronnie]

This is just a guess based on what little I know about the Teves. The logical thing that would cause the ABS to engage is a bad wheel sensor or a bad connection going between the sensor and the ABS control module. The ABS engages during a stop because the control unit is getting a signal (or lack there of) that a wheel has stopped turning at a speed near what the other wheels are turning. The module thinks the wheel is sliding and activates the valves in the ABS system in an effort stop the sliding. If indeed that is the case it might be hard to track down the problem but it is worth a try. You should at least go to my website, print the instructions on how to check the ABS codes. Once you have checked the ABS codes post them here and maybe we can help you fix your problem.

[Guest GMguy]

I will give it a try Ronnie. Have a few things to take care of the next few days but I will get back to you soon. And thanks again.

[padgett]

Might help to know where you are. Someone might know a good mechanic.

[Barney Eaton]

If you live in an area large enough to have specialty shops.......see if you can find an independent SAAB repair shop. SAAB owners seem to keep their cars forever and the mechanics are aware of "older" systems like the Teves and it was used by SAAB. Jaguar also used it but not may towns have independant Jaguar shops.

As a side note, I checked with the SAAB parts department a few years back to see if their accumulator was the same. They did not have one in stock but it looked the same in the manual/parts book and listed for $300 when you could get them for $120 at a GM dealer.

[Guest GMguy]

Hey guys, I'm back. I live on Long Island, basically a suburb of NYC. I did call a Saab mechanic in Brooklyn, but he immediately cut me off when I mentioned I had a Buick. Yes, I know I could have explained to him that it was a system he was probably familiar with, but I wasn't crazy about the idea of trying to talking him into working on my car. To me, having a mechanic feel like you need him too much is practically asking to get ripped off (or maybe I'm just cynical!)

[Rawja]

I just moved away from Long Island. Dunno where on the island you are, but this place can help you:

Nick's Auto Repair Centre

85 Sea Cliff Ave

Glen Cove, NY 11542

(516) 671-2140

Nick had been servicing all my cars for several years, let him know I sent you, and your car has the same braking system as a Reatta.

[Guest GMguy]

Thanks Roger. I'm out in Lindenhurst, but a trip to Glen Cove would be do-able for a competent mechanic who comes recommended

and is familiar with these systems. I'm going to call him and try to set up an appointment.

[Guest GMguy]

I'm back, guys. Wanted to update everyone. I made an appointment and went to Roger's mechanic. He gave me good news and bad news. The good news was there wasn't a lot wrong with the ABS itself. Just an ABS ring in the rear. That was causing the constant activation of the system. The bad news was the brakes themselves were in horrific shape. There was a frozen caliper in the front. The wheel cylinders in the rear were frozen. It needed brake pads all around. The total came out to about $800. Nick, the mechanic, seems knowledgable and honest. He even saved all the old parts so I could see they were bad. I did notice a lot of the symptoms these problems would cause but assumed they were due to faulty ABS. The brakes now feel awesome; it really feels like a different car. This of course brings me to an inevitable question; how did my regular mechanic not see any of this? He probably didn't even look. I've had my family in the car with a brake system that was completely unsafe. Yet he kept re-assuring me it was safe the way it was. Don't see how I can go to him anymore. Thanks very much for your advice everyone.

[William Rule]

When the Teves system is working correctly--------it's really an excellent system. Again, the problem, finding a mechanic smarter than a complex brake system.

[Guest STACY]

Any one out there that can help with a brake problem on a 47 dodge pickup. The engine has been replaced with a 350 chevy and in doing so the original master cylinder was moved to the fire wall, and a brake pedal assembly was installed to operate the master cylinder. The rear brakes lock up when you apply the brakes. If you back up and coast to a stop the brakes unlock. Any ideas?

Stacy

[1939_Buick]

Any one out there that can help with a brake problem on a 47 dodge pickup. The engine has been replaced with a 350 chevy and in doing so the original master cylinder was moved to the fire wall, and a brake pedal assembly was installed to operate the master cylinder. The rear brakes lock up when you apply the brakes. If you back up and coast to a stop the brakes unlock. Any ideas?

Stacy

Ask on THE H.A.M.B. - Powered by vBulletin

This site is all about the preservation & restoration cars. Not hot rods. Pity the Dodge did not get a fine MOPAR engine

Edited December 3, 2012 by 1939_buick
spelling (see edit history)

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Any one out there that can help with a brake problem on a 47 dodge pickup. The engine has been replaced with a 350 chevy and in doing so the original master cylinder was moved to the fire wall, and a brake pedal assembly was installed to operate the master cylinder. The rear brakes lock up when you apply the brakes. If you back up and coast to a stop the brakes unlock. Any ideas?

Stacy

Is there a proportioning valve on the rear line(s)? May need one or a new one.

I assume these are drum brakes. Check the condition of the drum surface and return springs. Also the condition of the flex lines between the cylinder and suspension. Flush some fluid out of the rears and check for rust or other contaminates. When was the last time fluid was flushed, refilled and system bled?