What progress did you make on your car?

[Guest 1930]

There's an ashtray on each side.

Thanks

[Dodgy6]

Quote...........But I found your fingers didn't have enough uumph to comfortably move the glass with those butterfly handles............I have had mine apart, cleaned and lubed and they are still difficult to manipulate.

Seems to be a common problem/poor design originally

Maybe, back in the day, men were men....

[Dodgy6]

I'd love to see a few more pics of this "one-of-a-kind mystery wagon" :cool:

Is there a link or other threads that have more pics? I did a little searching but havn't found anything.

Ross

Still slugging away. I'm bound and determined I'm going to finish it. At least I'll have a one only when I finish it and that should make it all worth while. But I'm still jealous of you guys with a production vehicle and the help and photos you can exchange. I have nobody to talk to except myself and I do that a lot, stand in a corner of my shop and mumble incoherently about the insanity of taking on such a project.

I finished the rear and sides before I started to take my Summer hiatus. The doors are 'mine' as the originals were garbage and good only for patterns. I did reuse the door hardware.The left side upper cove moulding was too high to allow me to start the round roof sides. (These 2 mouldings were about the only metal I didn't have to replace.) The right one was OK. The left one was about 1/4" too high and since I've restored this thing to 1/8" or better tolerances I was in trouble. They must of made concessions for the 1/4" difference back in Oct. 1935 at the custom body shop but I don't have those skills. So after taking a deep breath and a long scotch, I cut a 1/4" horizontal slice out of the moulding just above the top left door hinge. That dropped the moulding down onto the roof and solved the problem. I poured hot metal into a hard wood die I made to reproduce the 2 rear door window mouldings. The rear bumper is in the Eaton blue color that the whole truck will be in eventually. The brass plate is a repro I had made up that the truck would have had in that position when the T. Eaton Co. had it on the roads of Toronto. A second plate will sit opposite the front licence plate on the front bumper. (The licence plate is one of a restored original set for Ontario 1935 . The 'C' stands for 'commercial'.) That's all the company had for signage on their vehicles. Except for a silver 'Diamond E' logo on each side panel. Very subdued. There is no chrome on the vehicle except handles and headlight doors. No telephone number,no address was on their trucks.

I finished the left front sliding door and I'm half way through the right one. I had to move the window regulator away from the door latch to keep from skinning your knuckles when cranking the window up or down. The handles were missing and I never was able to get antique handles to fit where they had the regulator shaft. I made three new metal coverings for around the window on my brake. The 'arm rests' on the bottom of the window opening are original. The center panel around the window regulator is new but the bottom panel is original. I was able to keep the original 1935 window glass in both front doors. It is safety glass. I hope to have the fenders and front hood etc. painted this Summer.

[Dodgy6]

My latest progress is stripping everything I can off my busted-*** motor before I haul it's busted_*** out of the chassis with the tractor and drop it in the dam, (Just kidding!). Can't get the pulley, (harmonic balancer????) off. Any ideas?? Lots of rustiness going on so I don't know if it should slide off or screw off. There is a keyway in the centre but nothing in there that I can see so I'm guessing it is supposed to pull straight off. First time I've totally stripped a motor, so it's all new territory.

Here's some more rusty pics of my junk. I really thought my oil pan was going to be salvagable but alas....

[R.White]

I would think you are right about the pulley removal. Although I have not had one of these motors apart, generally speaking, I would think that if it originally had a keyway into the shaft, it should pull straight off. Suggest you look for a grub screw - there must have been something holding it on, you would think!

If you are using a 3 leg puller and the pulley is very tight, be careful not to damage it. Ideally, use a puller which fits closer to the centre. If the thing still won't budge with the puller done up tight, try a sharp tap using a brass drift; it usually flies off without resorting to heat treatment. If it has a balancer then that is quite an advanced feature for the time but from what I have seen so far of Dodge Brothers, it wouldn't surprise me!

If I am wrong, I hope someone who knows these engines better will chip in with the solution before you go further. I would hate for you to find that someone had fixed it on permanently !

Best of luck.

Ray

[Guest 1930]

Ray is right, it will slide straight off once the bolt is removed and you get it broken free, it is a balancer by the way, I thought even the 4 cyl Dodges had the balancer on the end of the crank, maybe a later 4 cyl? I will have to check this I guess.......pretty sure they do.

[Dodgy6]

I would think you are right about the pulley removal. Although I have not had one of these motors apart, generally speaking, I would think that if it originally had a keyway into the shaft, it should pull straight off. Suggest you look for a grub screw - there must have been something holding it on, you would think!

If you are using a 3 leg puller and the pulley is very tight, be careful not to damage it. Ideally, use a puller which fits closer to the centre. If the thing still won't budge with the puller done up tight, try a sharp tap using a brass drift; it usually flies off without resorting to heat treatment. If it has a balancer then that is quite an advanced feature for the time but from what I have seen so far of Dodge Brothers, it wouldn't surprise me!

If I am wrong, I hope someone who knows these engines better will chip in with the solution before you go further. I would hate for you to find that someone had fixed it on permanently !

Best of luck.

Ray

Ray is right, it will slide straight off once the bolt is removed and you get it broken free, it is a balancer by the way, I thought even the 4 cyl Dodges had the balancer on the end of the crank, maybe a later 4 cyl? I will have to check this I guess.......pretty sure they do.

Crisis over. I got it loose, and as suspected it comes straight off - no turning involved. A puller would have prob made things easier but I don't actually have one. I tend to get through these things with some agricultural inginuity....I think it comes from my plumbing background - we never use the right tools!!! I ended up screwing a 6" bolt into one of the two threaded holes that are in the balancer, (I'm still not convinced it is actually called a balancer Jason, something is tugging at my grey matter that they are a relatively "new" invention. It is my DA 6cyl I was working on and I'm sure we can have a debate...) with a large nut slid over the shaft of the bolt to give me something to aim at. That gave me 6" of swinging room with a hammer and plenty of oh so goooood smelling spray penetrating lube stuff and she finally let go. No grub screw or anything just rust and neglect holding it fast. I will have to put up a pick of the crank nut - looked pristine from the outside, but....

One day I will break something and I will go and get the right tools....today was not that day!

[Guest DodgeKCL]

This is the pile of junk I dragged home from Long Branch west of Toronto. It is one of 10 'flat faced' cowl and chassis made at Hamtramck in late 1935. Mine was 4th from the end of the 'run' in Detroit and 9th on the 'line' at the Smith Bros. Motor Truck Bodies Ltd. in Toronto where the custom sliding door body was installed. None of the other 9 have survived. The number 9 is stamped in the wooden edge of both front sliding doors on mine leading me to believe it's number 9 of the 10. There are photos of my truck in drawing form and wooden model form in the Archives of Ontario in Toronto. There are also several photos of a 'one of' that appears to be the trial for the '35 Dodges. It appears to be a 1935 1/2 ton International but it too has not survived. The model has the same frenched in headlights as the "International". I don't know what the model is supposed to represent except possibly the International. I have high gloss copies of the photos from the Archives but they are copyrighted and all state I can not publish them. I have a 3 ring binder with it's story that I have put together over the years as I restored the truck. The custom body design was done by the Chicago design house of Count Alexis De Sakhnoffsky. It states so in the T. Eaton Co. archives (Fonds F229) in the Archives of Ontario. De Sakhnoffsky was a very famous designer of the 30s and 40s and designed cars for the Hollywood stars. He also designed locomotives and toasters! He's very famous up here for designing the Labatt's Streamliner series of beer haulers. You can find pics of it on the net. The Streamliner and the original Eaton's drawings and models share the same frenched in headlights. It must of been a De Sakhoffsky trademark? The 10 Dodge trucks were used for small parcel delivery around Toronto until after WWII when they were sold off into private hands. Mine lived it's 2nd life in an apple orchard in Trafalgar Ont. just a little more west of Long Branch. A man bought it after the apple orchard guy died and meant to restore it. He kept it for 20 years inside but never touched it. I bought it in Feb. 1991 and have been working on it, off and on, since then. I'm now 68 and have been going pretty strong on it since retiring. The hobby up here knows I have the thing and keep bugging me to get it finished. They also know that it is a piece of Canadiana and if I hadn't of stepped in and taken it on, it would have been scrapped. It was sitting out in the Winter snow waiting for exactly that destiny. You see that in the pix. The 20 years storage had come to an end and he had bought a 1955 T-bird convertible and lost total interest in the Dodge KCL. In trying to obtain the original build ticket from the Dodge Main line,which I did get, I apparently was brought to the attention of the Chrysler Museum staff. The build ticket actually says the 10 cowl and chassis were painted in Eaton's Blue ON THE LINE in Hamtramck. Something I believe comes as a surprise to the Chrysler Corp. clubs today as we all thought you could only have your vehicle painted in a standard Chrysler color. Not so.

So about 2 years ago I answered the phone and the manager of the Chrysler Museum in Detroit was on the other end. He wanted know if I really had one of these rare Eaton's custom vans? You know the story but he wants photos of it when it's done and would very much like me to drive down to the museum. I'm about 300 miles east of Detroit in central Ontario above Toronto. It was he who told me there were 10 made and they were stretched out over 25 serial numbers that day,mine being 4th from the end. In other words not consecutive. He provided me with the other 9 serial numbers for the book I intend to write 'some day'. Stay tuned.

I've added a photo of the 1948 Labatt's Streamliner. You can see the similarity between the Eatons' model and the Labatt's truck. The frenched in headlights and fender skirts stand out. I've also included a photo of a 1933 Commercial Car 'flat faced cowl and chassis'. This is how my KCL started life in Hamtramck. 1933,'34 and '35 1/2 ton Dodge Commercial Cars are virtually identical.

Edited May 24, 2012 by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

[Machinist_Bill]

A rare piece of history and a great story to go with it! Thanks for sharing that with us.

Bill

[Dodgy6]

Awesome info KCL! You must have done a whole lot of research on your truck to know so much about it. Where ever did that model come from? Very cool :cool:

[Guest DodgeKCL]

Step one was the drawing from De Sakhoffsky under contract. Then the model was commisioned,I guess in Toronto, and painted in the Eaton's red,white and blue livery to give the company some idea of what they were getting into. I call this step 2. The model still exists and is on the net at the Toronto Virtual Museum. That's why I can post a photo of it. It's not copyrighted. The photos from the Archives of Ontario cost $10 each so I guess that's why they are copyrighted and I can't post them here.

Next,step3, they commisioned Smith. Bros Motor Truck Bodies to make something in wood and steel using the drawing and the model as their guides. Those are the photos in the Archives that I can't publish. It appears to be a 1935 International. But even the hood ornament has been changed to the corporate 'Diamond E' logo so it's a guess as to what the truck really started as. (BTW the Diamond E logo on the model is in the wrong place. On mine and on every other photo of a working truck,the E is on the upper side panel. But the custom body builder followed instructions to a 't' because the International has the E on the lower side skin the same as the model. This is how I know the International followed the model and used the model as a guide.)

Then,step4, they bought 10 Dodge KCL 1/2 ton 'flat faced cowl and chassis' from a Toronto Dodge dealer. But the manufacture of Dodge trucks was just being set up in Canada in 1935,in Windsor, so the 10 chassis came from Hamtramck.

Step 5 was the installation of the custom bodies back in Toronto.

And I guess step 6 was the delivery of the completed vans to Eaton's motor pool on Hayter St. in Toronto.

It has taken me a 'life time' to figure this all out. I am not aware at this time of anyone in Canada restoring a custom built van of any sort from those custom built body days. If there is I would dearly like to exchange e-mails with them.

Edited May 24, 2012 by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

[R.White]

I'm interested in hearing about other folks discoveries. How did you hear about your truck, KCL. Is there a co-incidence about it or did you answer an advert of some kind? I think there is something in the belief that these old vehicles find us, somehow.

Ray.

[Dodgy6]

I'm interested in hearing about other folks discoveries. How did you hear about your truck, KCL. Is there a co-incidence about it or did you answer an advert of some kind? I think there is something in the belief that these old vehicles find us, somehow.

Ray.

Well mine certainly found me.

I moved on to my property 8mths ago or so and there was this old rust bucket in the long grass in one of the paddocks. I didn't know what it was and had no interest in it. There was plenty of junk and stuff around the place that I wanted to get rid of to clean the place up and the old rusty ute thing was on my hit list. I had planned on selling it so I started looking and asked a few friends who are into vintage cars what it might be. Finally I nailed it down to a Dodge DA and while comparing it to other pics on the internet to make sure, well, I'm not afraid to admit that I fell a little bit in love!

I still don't know anything about the history of my particular vehicle but I have no doubt she will give up her secrets in time.

One day she will be beautiful again.

[Guest 1930]

I bought my car from a guy that was suffering very badly from arthritis of some type, so bad he was house ridden, he was a rodder and this was the next car on the chopping block, I couldnt buy it since I didnt have enough money at the time so a friend of mine bought it kinda out from under me as I was still scrambling to get the cash.

He was also a rodder.

My boss at the time knew I wanted the car badly so he bought it for me from its new owner and let me pay him back as I could.

Guy with the arthritis had a re-lapse back into health again as soon as the car was out of his hands and as far as I know he is back to chopping them up

[keiser31]

In trying to keep this post on topic.....any progress on them?

Edited May 23, 2012 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Dodgy6]

In trying to keep this post on topic.....any progress on them?

Ok, sorry threadmaster.

I just pulled the rear springs off. That is just about the last bolt-on thing attached to my chassis apart from my engine block which is almost ready to come off too.

[Guest stephen48]

Tidyed up a Klaxon horn and put it on recently acquired Marquette. Now it has the right sound for the era! Old and loud.

[Guest John1918]

OK, in response to Ray's suggestion, here are my DB cars. The orange truck is away being painted and I haven't yet finished the roadster but there have been many distractions over the last 18 months. An earthquake Sept 2010 started a chain of aftershocks (about 10,500 so far) and our city of Christchurch is all but wiped out. The liquifaction silt has produced abrasive dust which covers everything, my house will probably have to be demolished. Insurance companies are failing to pay out on the largest insurance event in claims history so my business is held up with our planned rebuild.

I am doing a "quickie" refurbishment of the 1920 truck. It was a tourer converted to a truck in the '20s and registered as such so I will keep it as a truck. A 1919 picture shows a neat DB roadster pickup so I will copy that as close as possible.

[Guest 1930]

Sent you a P.M John

[R.White]

Also sent you a P.M.

You have some really nice cars there, John. How is the wedding trade? My car, a 1926 Touring came over from Australia where it had been earning a living as a wedding car... I'm thinking about the possibilities here in Derbyshire.?

Ray.

[keiser31]

Ok, sorry threadmaster.

I just pulled the rear springs off. That is just about the last bolt-on thing attached to my chassis apart from my engine block which is almost ready to come off too.

I do not mean to come off as the "threadmaster". A different topic should be started by a new post or it will get lost in the original thread. Just a forum etiquette thing not to mention courteous. Go for it and start a new post about "Where did you find your Dodge Brothers vehicle?". I am certain there will be hundreds of replies that we would all be glad to read.

Edited May 23, 2012 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Guest FOlsen]

Stymied, Can't get the flat headed windshield screws out of my '27 sedan. Any ideas? I hesitate to drill them because I have not been able to find replacements.

[R.White]

Hi there FOlsoen. Looks like you had better start a new post as well!!

[Dodgy6]

I do not mean to come off as the "threadmaster". A different topic should be started by a new post or it will get lost in the original thread. Just a forum etiquette thing not to mention courteous. Go for it and start a new post about "Where did you find your Dodge Brothers vehicle?". I am certain there will be hundreds of replies that we would all be glad to read.

I know, I was just pulling your chain

Still, I do like a good rolling thread loosely based around something not too specific. Throw in a few good sub plots, and you have a best seller!

[Guest DodgeKCL]

The KCL was advertised in the Toronto Star as a 1933 Dodge van which of course turned out to be incorrect as it was made in Oct. 1935. No the history was not known at the time but they suspected it was an Eatons' truck. The first definite clue was when I pulled off the firewall insulation and someone had grease penciled (?) 'EATON BLUE' and a number on the firewall. Since it was "behind" the firewall insulation it also gave me a clue as to the paint being applied at Hamtramck. Which proved to be true as the build ticket stated. I of course did not even know in those days that it was not a Canadian produced vehicle. American produced vehicles up here were very rare in those days because we had our own manufacturers and there were high duties to bring anything in from outside Canada. I assume these KCLs had to have had that duty. The duties or most of them were withdrawn in 1965 with advent the North American Auto Pact. And I had no idea what a 'flat faced cowl and chassis' was. Nor did I know what body model B-1-0 stood for. Nor did anyone on the net. It's been quite an education. The knowledge was all but lost.

Back to the thread. Eatons took all the plates and the Diamond E corporate logos off their trucks when they sold them. Mine still had the 4 holes in the upper side panels for the Diamond Es. (And I didn't know what they were for at first.) Those Diamond Es are all gone period. Believe me I've looked. Sometime before the end of the company ,in 1999, they had stopped putting the Diamond E logo on the trucks. Possibly as far back as the 1950s. I'm am just now in the throes of having them reproduced by an outfit in Peterborough Ont. In fact I was on the phone today with them but they are not ready. I will post a photo of them when they arrive hopefully in the next day or so.

I've included a photo or drawing of a 1937 T. Eaton Co. furniture van. It's from the Archives of Ontario from an 'advertisement' on their site. Since it's on the open net I assume I can post it here. It being only 2 years newer than my KCL it will give a better picture of what my livery will look like. I do not know the basic make of this truck but it too appears to have a custom body. The rear cove mouldings and the slant are the same as mine just bigger. The nickle plated 'treble clef' driver assist handles on either side of the front door are also the same as mine. Thank God they were still in place and just had to be polished and plated. The front door 'loop' style handles were also missing but I found a set of those. It appears they were fairly common on very early upmarket cars like the Cadillac. I will be putting the number 9 on mine in the same place as this truck has it's number.

I hope I'm not boring all of you. I'm a history nut as well as a car/truck nut and I find this kind of discussion fascinating. Besides I assume this is the only discussion of it's kind?

It has occured to me that "The T. Eaton Co. Ltd." may have very little if any meaning to anybody outside Canada. I won't bore you with too many details as the internet is full of stories and photos from the company's history. During it's history,especially it's 1st 100 years, "Eatons was Canada" and "Canada was Eatons". The Santa Claus parade in Toronto was the "Eaton's Santa Clause Parade",also Montreal and Winnipeg, and there is virtually no one alive up here who didn't visit Santa at "Eatons'Toyland". When the floats were through being used up here they were shipped to New York to be used in the Macey's Parade. It was a family owned business and everybody had an Eaton's catalogue. BTW the Eaton Corp. that comes up on Google is an American truck and automotive parts company that has nothing to do with Eatons of Canada.

I've included a couple of photos of off brand custom trucks built in Toronto. The Ford V-8 is a custom built dry cleaner delivery van that has very much the look of my truck except it has a sliding rear door. I do not know where it was built. It has Ontario "C" commercial plates on it from the 30s. The hearse appears to be a Chev 490 from the 20s. It was built at Smith Bros. Body Builders in Toronto where my Dodge KCL had it's body installed. And you can see the loop style handle on the front door. I've included one last photo of a 1931 Ford A which seems to have been a 'windshield cowl and chassis'. It was a Toronto truck. It may have been that Toronto was a center for custom built trucks in the 30s. I know there was an Elder Body Co. and an Empire body Co. An older man now in his 90s tells me that Empire was down a lane at the back of a building that they rented. So we may have had more than our fair share of small custom body builders up here. We all know about the fancy car body builders like Le Baron in the States but we did not have many upmarket cars with custom bodys on them up here. It may of been we were in love with custom trucks though?

Edited May 25, 2012 by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

[Ian_Greenlaw]

Hi KCL,

I for one find your posts very informative and enjoy reading them. It shows just how knowledgeable some of these members are and in comparison shows how much I have to learn.

Ian

[Dodgy6]

Just about finished stripping all I can off the motor until I get it onto an engine stand. Raining here solidly so I don't want to churn up the yard with the tractor so I may have to wait a few days to lift the engine out of the chassis.

I also tore down the clutch and got everything freed up and moving again. I got a bit of a fright when the corrosion holding the clutch driving disc in finally let go. The power in the compressed clutch springs jumped the whole backing plate off the bench a couple of inches!

I found a couple of things while stripping this motor worth noting. One was the cranking nut or "crankshaft starting jaw" as it is officially termed. I'll let the pictures do the talking on that. The other thing was the timing chain - I really wasn't expecting something so beautiful amidst all the rust, gunk and carnage! A real work of art.

[R.White]

I think what you have there is an example of "American Triplex Chain". A quality item.

I expect you can get another "crankshaft starting jaw" (or "dog" as we Poms might say.) If you can't; you could try making another one if you have access to a lathe. Perhaps our friend Machinist Bill could give you some guidance if you need any.

Have you decided to repair your engine?

Ray.

[Dodgy6]

I think what you have there is an example of "American Triplex Chain". A quality item.

I expect you can get another "crankshaft starting jaw" (or "dog" as we Poms might say.) If you can't; you could try making another one if you have access to a lathe. Perhaps our friend Machinist Bill could give you some guidance if you need any.

Have you decided to repair your engine?

Ray.

At this stage my plan will be to get another engine. I'm just missing or need to replace too many parts to go chasing them individually, so the "new" one will more than likely the engine that gets this truck going - and hopefully it will have a "dog" attatched! I'll hang on to this block though. If it can be repaired it would be nice to have the original block back in the car but it all costs $$$.

[Guest 1930]

That crankshaft deelio rusting out like that is a first for me

[Ron Lawson]

Ah Jason, We have very tough industrial termites here Down Under. Nothing escapes Ford GM Mopar Japcrap And The odd English & European all succumbs to them eventualy

[Dodgy6]

That crankshaft deelio rusting out like that is a first for me

Don't you know its called a "dog" Jason.

Anyway, it has rusted from the inside out and I'm guessing where the hole is was lying at the bottom so water would just sit there and rot it. She must have been this way for a fair while without any protection from the elements - that thread would be 3mm thick. I had to put a BIG pipe wrench with plenty of leverage on the nut to get it loose. A few more years neglect and it would probably sheared right off inside the crank shaft, so I guess I got a bit lucky.

[Guest 1930]

Quote............Don't you know its called a "dog" Jason. ...........Dont know that I have heard that term used

[1936 D2]

...Dont know that I have heard that term used

Check post #68...

[Guest 1930]

Check post #68...

Yes, thanks, I read post 68 but I meant before that, that was the post my initial response was too

[GDenton]

Okay, I've made some progress on my truck....I finally got it home. After sitting 22 years in the woods, my Son and I got it home. We had to move a Chevy truck and Ranchero that were in front of it, that have been there about the same amount of time first. The pictures below show the progress. The plan is for a frame off restoration. Some of it has been modified, so that will all go back to original as close as I can get. It has a 25 inch Spitfire engine with some kind of gigantic 4 speed transmission behind it. If anyone wants it they are welcome to it. As you can see by the pictures I need lots of parts, especially cab parts. It has no window regulators, door hardware, so, if you have anything I could use email me with what you have. I have an engine and transmission acquired, need a radiator though, Thanks, Guy

[Guest Jen_]

Okay, I've made some progress on my truck....I finally got it home. After sitting 22 years in the woods, my Son and I got it home. We had to move a Chevy truck and Ranchero that were in front of it, that have been there about the same amount of time first. The pictures below show the progress. The plan is for a frame off restoration. Some of it has been modified, so that will all go back to original as close as I can get. It has a 25 inch Spitfire engine with some kind of gigantic 4 speed transmission behind it. If anyone wants it they are welcome to it. As you can see by the pictures I need lots of parts, especially cab parts. It has no window regulators, door hardware, so, if you have anything I could use email me with what you have. I have an engine and transmission acquired, need a radiator though, Thanks, Guy

wish i was closer i would take the spitfire from you to help replace a bad block i have here . mine is a desoto and it has way to many cracks in due to bad repair

am glad you got the truck out of the woods and safely home. i just purchased a frame for this truck although its missing a little bit from the front of the frame not sure how much is missing yet. this was due to a person trying to do wrong things in a bad way , giggles

Edited May 27, 2012 by Jen_ (see edit history)

[GDenton]

Hi Jen, look for some previous posts from me and you can see a picture of the Spitfire engine in my truck. I don't think it is a very good fit for this truck as there is no room for a radiator. You can have it though if you want. It is the long one, which means the block is 25 inches. Just measure the head, and you can tell, It will either be 23 or 25 inches long.

[Guest Jen_]

Hi Jen, look for some previous posts from me and you can see a picture of the Spitfire engine in my truck. I don't think it is a very good fit for this truck as there is no room for a radiator. You can have it though if you want. It is the long one, which means the block is 25 inches. Just measure the head, and you can tell, It will either be 23 or 25 inches long.

its just to far for me to get engine , and i do understand it wont fit this truck as its to long.

i do need to find someone with frame open to take measurements for me to find out how much is missing and possibly make me some kind of template out of craft paper so i can duplicate the shape out of new metal.

Jen

[MikeC5]

Do you mean Triumph Spitfire?