Dual Carb set up

[bobj49f2]

I just got a dual carb set up for my '37 Special. It's out of a '40 but that doesn't matter, my engine is out of a '40.

Does anyone have pictures of a dual car set up in a car. The exhaust manifolds outlets point to the front and back and I'm just wondering how the exhaust is arranged.

Second, any idea if this set up is rare or not? What do you think the value of it is? Just curious, this is going into the '37, I'm not selling.

[Mark Shaw]

Bob,

I just bought the same thing at the Portland Swap. You will need to fabricate a wye pipe to bring the exhaust together for the original single exhaust set up (your photo shows the manifolds backwards). Or, you can fabricate dual exhaust (if you can find a way to route the second pipe to the rear of the car).

The "progressive carb set up" was standard for 1941 and is much sought after by those who want more power when they put their foot into it, but still get good fuel mileage while just cruising. I know of just one exhaust manifold being advertised on Ebay for big $$.

1941-42 Buick Exhaust Manifold for Dual Setup; 40-50;FT | eBay

Edited May 3, 2012 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[bobj49f2]

I know of just one exhaust manifold being advertised on Ebay for big $$.

1941-42 Buick Exhaust Manifold for Dual Setup; 40-50;FT | eBay

Yes, but looks who's selling it. NB usually is 3-4 times a realistic price. Even though it looks like an expensive piece.

I do have an exhuast Y pipe with the set up and now that you informed me that the exhaust manifolds go the other way I see how it works. I looks like the Y pipe might have been a custom job. It attaches to the two manifold outlets into on pipe, goes about 9" and slits out again. Could this have been made to make a easy dual exhaust?

I'd really like to see the set up mounted in a car. Does any one happen to know how different the '37 engine to frame is compared to a '40?

[Grandpa]

Bob,

Please see the attached pictures from Matt Harwood's 1941 Buick restoration web site -

Matt's '41 Buick

Grandpa

[Grandpa]

Bob,

There is another picture of the 1941 Buick manifolds.

Grandpa

[Dynaflash8]

For the sake of interest, history and authenticity, the dual carb setup was ONLY available on 1941 and 1942 models. It wasn't carried over into 1946 on a single car, and it wasn't introduced early on a single car. That said, you could put one on a '40, '37, '49 whatever you wanted but you couldn't buy it from the factory in any of those years.

[41specialman]

I have dual exhaust on my 41 special coupe it was kinda trick to install but it can be done. Both are seperate from manifold back Also I have 2 brand new y pipes for single exhaust if anyone is looking have fun

[Guest mclbuick2002]

1/ Can you use the 41 dual carb manifold on a 36 233 engine? The 233 and 248 have same bore.The 41 manifold bolts onto the 233 head.

2/ Has anyone used different than stock carbs ,such as , stromberg EE1s or 97s?

Stan

[eric_b_1937]

Buy a 41 Buick Manual and it describes this complicated system in great detail. The photo's appear that the damper valves are missing. If so then you might need to modify to prevent the carburetor heat from being on all the time.

You will need to make or modify you accelerator pedal firewall linkage since the 41 link is different.

The threaded rods that hold up the air cleaner appear to be missing. Make sure you have all the parts before you move to install.

The Buick-Y job has the dual intake so I see this as a used car period modification and perfectly acceptable for your custom car.

I owned a 1935 engine sr-40 that had a dual carburetor on it so it should work on a 1936 too.

[carbking]

As mentioned above, the dual carb units were factory available only in 1941~42; but Buick was experimenting with duals as early as (memory) 1935. Stromberg made some custom 1-barrel carbs for Buick in this time period.

For the factory units done in the 1941-42 years; two different sizes were used (for the two different engines).

Both Carter and Stromberg carbs were used on both engines (obviously, different carbs were used for the different engines).

The Buick set is unique in that it is the only (at least the only one of which I am aware) dual carb set where the front carb is the primary and the rear carb is the secondary. The front carb is a complete carb, where the secondary is only a dumper carb.

And in the FWIW category, while we have done several factory sets; we have done a few sets where we use different carbs AND RUN BOTH CARBS ALL OF THE TIME! (idle on both, run on both). The customers for which we have custom made these sets loved them a lot more than the original primary/secondary arrangement. This setup gives better fuel distribution at all RPM; thus increasing torque, horsepower AND fuel economy.

Jon.

[bobj49f2]

There is a manifold set up on eBay now. The seller posted some very nice close up pictures of it.

[bobj49f2]

Buy a 41 Buick Manual and it describes this complicated system in great detail.

Would anyone be kind enough to scan this information for me? I have the '37 shop manual but I don't want to buy the '41 manual just for a page or two of information.

The photo's appear that the damper valves are missing. If so then you might need to modify to prevent the carburetor heat from being on all the time.

I see what your saying by comparing the pictures from the eBay ad.

As mentioned above, the dual carb units were factory available only in 1941~42; but Buick was experimenting with duals as early as (memory) 1935. Stromberg made some custom 1-barrel carbs for Buick in this time period.

For the factory units done in the 1941-42 years; two different sizes were used (for the two different engines).

Both Carter and Stromberg carbs were used on both engines (obviously, different carbs were used for the different engines).

The Buick set is unique in that it is the only (at least the only one of which I am aware) dual carb set where the front carb is the primary and the rear carb is the secondary. The front carb is a complete carb, where the secondary is only a dumper carb.

And in the FWIW category, while we have done several factory sets; we have done a few sets where we use different carbs AND RUN BOTH CARBS ALL OF THE TIME! (idle on both, run on both). The customers for which we have custom made these sets loved them a lot more than the original primary/secondary arrangement. This setup gives better fuel distribution at all RPM; thus increasing torque, horsepower AND fuel economy.

Jon.

Thanks Jon for the information. I might go this way. I am more concern about the best performance of originality.

[FLYER15015]

Just an idle question.

For those who choose to run dual exhaust from the above setup, did you put a "balance" pipe between the two ? I'm told by the local hot rodders that this is nessary for bottom end torque, and that is what the old Fireball 8 is noted for.

Mike in Colorado

Member #1 '40 Buick Team

[bobj49f2]

This is the exhaust pipe that came with the dual carb set up I got. I did a dry fit and it fits in nicely in between the engine and frame of my '37.

[1939_Buick]

Bob

Page 91-A from the 1928-52 Master Parts Book

Have also sent you an email with other pdf's from the book

1928-52 Master Parts Book pg 91-A.pdf

[Dynaflash8]

Personally, I don't believe in putting any VISIBLE changes on any car. Insert rods and rod bearings is one thing, a 263 engine on a '39 or dual carbs is something I don't go for. To each his own as the old lady kissed the cow is what my grandmother used to say. Just expressing my own personal opinion here. Want dual carbs, buy a '41 or '42 is how I feel. Not looking for a lot of hate mail here now, okay?

[bobj49f2]

When I first posted on this board, right after I bought my '37, I mentioned my intentions with the car and got a lot of heat, even some somewhat nasty emails. At the time I explained this car was a total rot bucket, a decent parts car at best. I dragged this car out of a guy's back yard. It probably should have been savaged for the parts it had and the rest shipped to China. I stated I was going to use parts from a '40 Buick and was told I'd devalue the car. You can't devalue a $550 car. I think it will a lot more valuable as a safe, comfortable car than the rusty hulk I originally bought. I basically bought a parts car first. I replaced the chassis and body, only keeping the front fenders, grill surround and hood.

I appreciate the work some of you guys have put into your cars to make them by the numbers show cars. I started out with literally a piece of junk and am trying to put it back on the road. Along the way I am modifying it for financial,safety and convenience reasons. I would think there would be some appreciation for trying to keep another old car on the road. You may not like some of the modifications but the car will be on the road some day instead of being crushed into a cube and sent off to China or a rusty dust collector sitting in the corner of a garage. I've many old car guys who have a car just sitting waiting for that one NOS nut that holds the running boards on, meanwhile the car sits and the owner gets older without ever enjoying the car other than looking at it. Since this car is not going to be a by the numbers concourse winner I will build it the best way my finances allow and will add modifications to make the car more pleasant to drive. This car, like my old trucks, were, and are, being built to drive. I want my wife and kids to drive them. The wheels will be driven off of them and then put back on. I hope to see my future grandchildren driving them.

Some of the modifications I've done so far that might set some of you off:

Installed two reservoir master cylinder, moved to outside of X frame and extended push rod

Rebuilt motor mounts myself, sides and front, using polyester urethane.

Built rear parking brake cables using parts found at the local hardware store.

Swapped in front and rear breaks from a '40 Buick

Installed '40 engine, some exterior differences from the block of rust '37 that came in the car.

Future mods and installs:

Home made stainless steel grill.

Recover running boards with polyester urethane .

'41-42 dual carbs, intake and exhaust manifolds.

12 volt electrical system for brighter lights and sound system.

Many more I'm thinking of.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Hang in there, Bob. Just keep a thick skin!!

Ben

[Mark Shaw]

Bob,

I applaud you for resurecting a parts car and putting a Buick Straight 8 motor back in it. If you have followed my posts, you should know that I am all about driving my cars and helping others get their prewar Buicks back on the road. None of my cars are show cars and I have no intention of ever entering them in judged shows. However, I do enter them in Buick meets and other shows as non-judged entries so others can see them and enjoy them as I do.

I do try to restore my cars with correct parts, although I sometimes have to fabricate the parts from pieces of other cars or just make them from whatever I can find. It seems you are doing much the same thing with your car and I do really appreciate what you are doing...

Keep up the good work and ignore the negative comments from purists, especially the ones who just hire someone else to restore their cars...

[Guest Grant Magrath]

I think it's cool using period parts to hot up a car myself. But I can also see where Earl is coming from. As long as you're enjoying your car, whether looking for hard to find parts, wrenching on it, driving it, or staring at it in the garage. Not a fan of "chequebook restorations" myself, but envious as hell of the ability to do one! Or buying a restored one!

Cheers

Grant

[bobj49f2]

Don't worry, I have a thick hide. I also like seeing the reactions of some members when I post some of my ideas. I'll be posting more as I progress on the car. Hopefully some time soon it'll be moving under it's own power.

[Guest longhornlarry]

Bob,

I just bought the same thing at the Portland Swap. You will need to fabricate a wye pipe to bring the exhaust together for the original single exhaust set up (your photo shows the manifolds backwards). Or, you can fabricate dual exhaust (if you can find a way to route the second pipe to the rear of the car).

The "progressive carb set up" was standard for 1941 and is much sought after by those who want more power when they put their foot into it, but still get good fuel mileage while just cruising. I know of just one exhaust manifold being advertised on Ebay for big $$.

1941-42 Buick Exhaust Manifold for Dual Setup; 40-50;FT | eBay

I have a 41 Buick Special, how can I determine if it has a 248 cubic inch engine or a 320??

I am going to put a 41 dual carb setup on it. Was there two different intake and exhaust manifolds, carbs for the 248 vs 320 or is the setup interchangeable with either engine.

Thanks

Longhornlarry

[bobj49f2]

The Specials came with only the 248, which is noticably shorter than the larger 320. The exhaust and intake manifolds will not interchange between the two different sizes.

If no one else chimes in do a search of this site. I know there are a few older posts dealing with the 248 vs. 320. I found a few when I first got my Special.

[Guest longhornlarry]

There is a manifold set up on eBay now. The seller posted some very nice close up pictures of it.

On this intake and exhaust manifolds on ebay, can you determine if they are for 248 cubic inch engine or the 320 Cu inch engine???

Thanks

Longhornlarry

[1939_Buick]

On this intake and exhaust manifolds on ebay, can you determine if they are for 248 cubic inch engine or the 320 Cu inch engine???

Thanks

Longhornlarry

Advertised as series 40 -50 : that is 248 ci

Ann Bell has had these advertised for some time. A spray with silver paint does not make then restored

The Specials came with only the 248, which is noticably shorter than the larger 320. The exhaust and intake manifolds will not interchange between the two different sizes.

If no one else chimes in do a search of this site. I know there are a few older posts dealing with the 248 vs. 320. I found a few when I first got my Special.

http://forums.aaca.org/f165/248-v-320-manifold-dimensions-323586.html

The overall length of the assembled intake & exhaust manifolds for the 320 engine is about 34½ inches.

From an other post

What is the length of the engine head ?

A 320 ci is about 35 inches long. A 248 ci is just under 32 inches long.

If the engine number starts with a 4 its a 40 series Special 248 ci

If the engine number starts with a 6 its a 60 series Century 320 ci

Edited May 14, 2012 by 1939_buick (see edit history)

[bobj49f2]

Allan,

The manifold set I cited isn't a Nuttybuick item, it's another person and is measures the same as the set I have for my 248. I think he started his bidding around $150, if it was NB she'd have started it at $1000 even without paint. Maybe she'll end up buying it for cheap and reposting it two weeks from for the $1000 price, I wouldn't doubt it.

[1939_Buick]

..The manifold set I cited isn't a Nuttybuick item...

I just clicked the link in Mark's post

Assume Larry was looking at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item20c54b175b&item=140748986203&nma=true&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&rt=nc&si=pgTtGc5fw3h9LnmX97fImd6kcnA%253D&vxp=mtr&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc Seem others sell for about this $

From the site Overall length of the entire manifold assembly is slightly over 31 1/2in so a 248 ci is my guess

Edited May 14, 2012 by 1939_buick (see edit history)

[Guest longhornlarry]

There is a manifold set up on eBay now. The seller posted some very nice close up pictures of it.

Can you tell from these pictures if this is for the 248 Cu Inch or 320 Cu Inch motor?? Dimensions and part numbers given in ad does not help me ID which engine they are off of.

Thanks

Longhornlarry

[Guest longhornlarry]

Bob,

The ebay items which include both exhaust and the intake are shown in a picture above. Can you tell with photos , one measurement and part #'s if they are for the 248 engine or 320?

Thanks

Longhornlarry

[bobj49f2]

When I first found the eBay post I checked his measurement again the parts I have and they matched so I am assuming it for the smaller 248, like the one I have. As stated above there is quite different in size between the two engine. These parts will not fit the larger engine.

It doesn't matter now, it sold for $355.

[1939_Buick]

from a link in The Old Car Manual Project

may be of interest

COMPOUND CARBURETION

This type of carburetion is used as equipment on the 1941 and 1942 Buick.

Carburetor Tune Up Guide - The Carburetor Doctor

[Guest Barneys_Bud]

Having dealt with both I would recommend the single every time. However the exhaust manifolds exit pointing toward each other. There is a Y pipe at the bottom with the slip joint pointing toward the front. I would also recommend wiring the heat risers in the open position. Inevitably these things will freeze up and cause you to overheat the manifold, this will often lead to cracking of the manifold. You should check yours very carefully to assure that they do not have any hairline cracks in them. Using long bolts as guides once the manifold assemblies have been mated together will make the job go much easier. Glueing the gaskets to the head with some weather strip adhesive will help you retain your sanity while you attempt to juggle all these pieces. Tried both types of gaskets but are not a fan of the copper ones.

Getting these things to run correctly with the duals is a challenge and I am not sure the extra 5 hp are worth while.

That is my story and I am sticking to it.

[Guest Barneys_Bud]

I would like to know more about that conversation. What carbs were used? And what fuel economy. Just got mine dialed in and my best fuel economy to date is 13 mpg.

[Guest]

If you don't have 3.6 or 3.4 /1 ratio, I don't think you'll improve fuel economy much. Highway gears weren't a big priority when the average speed limit in the US was 45 mph. But draggn' 36-3800 LB cars with a 248" engine demanded long stroke for toque and lower gears for torque multiplication. My '40 Buick Super has 4.4/1 rear gear and it gets 10mpg and second gear is shifted 1/2 way thru an intersection so you don't over-rev the engine. I'm going with a 3.9/1 to prevent "lugging" the engine. Rear gears are a bolt in from 1940 to early 1955. Early 50's used 3.4/1, but I'd think unless a 248 ie rebuilt and has at least .080 milled off the head, it might not pull that gear well. Yes, you can mill up to .125 off that cylinder head,but i stopped at .080 in case it warps and I need more milling. Be sure and find push rods from 1941, they are shorter, or you will have to shim your rocker shaft stands up to ke the proper valve train alignment. Good Luck!

I would like to know more about that conversation. What carbs were used? And what fuel economy. Just got mine dialed in and my best fuel economy to date is 13 mpg.

[Guest Barneys_Bud]

Thanks for the info. I have the 3.9 gears but that limits the car to the mid fifties. Could push harder however I am not sure the babit bearings could take that.