attention:Barney Eaton

[Guest gigitwo]

Barney, Steve Skyhark and I where discussing our favorite topic and both concluded that a large number of females are or were drivers of reattas. My reatta, which I am the 2nd owner, was originally owned by a female. My point being that the classic car market is such a male oriented game not to mention an expensive time consuming hobby, this could be one of the reasons the car is not yet a well recognized classic. I believe I have read where you stated that Frank Sinatra bought one and Tony Curtis bought one (for their wives) and not themselves. The car was obviosly not a teenage boys testosterone dream nor a rich mans got to have but a chick magnet for the professional woman or whoms husband could buy her one. Not to say that women lowered the value of the car but that not enough men were over enthused about the car, as I stated earlier, men dominate the classic car buisness. The reason I'm writing you is because I thought you might know of some data on gender based buyers of the reatta, did women outnumber men in buying the car. I know in my area in Maryland I see mostly females driving this car and when I bring up reattas in conversation a woman is more incline to know the car than a man. What are your thoughts?

[Guest gotitright]

I have to admit - I am just amazed!

[NCReatta]

I can vouch for this also. I can list dozens of examples I've come across lately where the woman if the family was the primary driver.

A couple in Thomasville NC I met last spring. She bought her '89 while her husband was out of town.

Three of the recent parts cars I bought from owners that either bought themselves the car new, or bought it used. All had titles in the wife's name.

The owner of my convertible was a woman. It was considered "her car". The title was in her name, and when I met the husband to look at the car, he barely knew how to turn on the radio.

These along with other examples too numerous to list just prove Ron and Steve's point further.

[Guest 89 Maui]

I am the 2nd owner of my 89. The original owner of 22 years was the wife of a judge. She drove, maintained and garaged the 89 all those years. The only discrepancy in the interior was a hole in the drivers floor mat from her heels.

[Barney Eaton]

I wish I had the data to answer the question.....about Reatta ownership today.

Back when the cars were built, GM did track that sort of data and I will quote from, of all places an Oldsmobile book.......... Setting The Pace, Oldsmobile's First 100 Years published in 1996 and authored by Helen Jones Earley & James R Walkinshaw, contained a good deal of information about the Reatta because it was built in Lansing, and Oldsmobile considered Lansing "their town" just like Buick considered Flint theirs.

On page 429, Jim Rucker (Reatta plant manager) was talking about the Reatta and the following is in the book..........

"It was literally a handmade car, The quality levels were unbelievable..........Half the cars (were) registered to women (partly) because it was a very strong car. (It) weighed more than a Electraof the same year -- extremely ridgid, solid car. You could sense that: it gave you a great sense of security. Women liked it for that. It was (also) extremely roomy for a two-seat car".

After the fact, talking to many original owners, it seems that the husbands were buying the cars for the wives, not that some women did not buy them, but it was just right to go to the country club, why drive around in a sedan when you could have a Reatta.

The way Mr. Ruckers worded his statement..... saying the cars were registered to women as apposed to saying women purchased them, would add to the story that husbands were buying them and registering them in the wives name. It is not unusual today for a car up for sale to be in the wives name.

You could also speculate that IF Buick put a turbo V6 or a V8 in the Reatta from the beginning, MAYBE they would have sold more and those would have been purchased by men.

Guess we will never know.

[padgett]

OK, in the mid-80s, the Corvette was for the wannabe racer, the fiero for twenties (and originally sold as a commuter car), the Allante for the wealthy , and the Reatta, well because every other division except Olds had a two seater and they had the Bravada.

So Buick kinda snuck it in which happens about every 15 or 20 years (GS 455 Stage 1 anyone ? The fastest, best engineered, and least known of the muscle cars

Now, heavy, safe, reliable, fast enough (0-60 in 8.5 seconds), economical enough but it wasn't until this century that how good it was then became apparent.

So when you only sell 4000 in the first year, is demographics by sex really important ? Suspect more of a cultural thing that croses usual boundaries, people who want a Buick regardless of the price tag.

[matthewlawe]

I've often thought the Reatta was more of a woman's car than a man's.

And now, thinking back, of the some 2 dozen Reattas I've run across, the

vast majority were females. When I think of the Reattas, on the open

road, top down, I'm not thinking of some guy chewin' on a cigar in the

driver's seat.

[meehan]

I bought my 1990 Coupe from an original owner who was going through a Mid-Life Crisis and a Divorce, so he married a younger woman and bought himself a Sports Car!

The rest is history.

[Guest gigitwo]

I think Barney makes an interesting point about engine size and horsepower. I can see where an aggressive looking 2-seater with a not so aggressive engine would appeal to women and husbands who want there wives to be safe. Remember when the mustang premiered, it was an exciting looking, mild, pony-sized car that was family oriented. It was Carroll Shelby that put the muscle in that car and made it a legend. Even though the car set a record in sales, I doubt it would have become a classic big money car if it wasn't for Shelby showing Ford how to put big engines in them. I'm willing to bet that the engine performance weighs big here, not for lowering its value but for not getting it over the hump quicker than what its taking. I do believe it will get there though. The car is just too important in Buicks history.

[Guest wally888]

Interesting, I've owned four, two 89 coupes, a 91 coupe and 90 ragtop. Women/wives were owners of three. The forth, I'm not sure. When sold three were bought by/for women.

[NCReatta]

Interesting, I've owned four, two 89 coupes, a 91 coupe and 90 ragtop. Women/wives were owners of three. The forth, I'm not sure. When sold three were bought by/for women.

I didn't mention the other end of the deal.. My convertible was bought by a woman in Atlanta. She had already owned one Reatta convertible before this one.

[Rawja]

Of the five Reattas that I've acquired, 4 were owned by men (two were the pride and joy of their deceased original owners) and one was owned by a woman.

Sure the Reatta wasn't a high powered sports car, but for many once they get past a certain age, smokey burnouts become a low priority.

[jonlabree]

What Age would that be??

[Guest BJM]

I looked into purchasing an 88 Reatta last year from the original owner- a lady from California.

I think the Reatta - originally - would have been more of a womans car. This was still the 1980's. Even Buick offered an all black muscle car in 1987, the GN.

I thought 2 seaters like the Reatta were a little foo foo when new.

Lots of money in the late 80's too. By then, just about every suburban family had 2 cars. Husband gets the sedan, empty nesters get the wife a Reatta.

[padgett]

Guess have always been a bit backwards. Bought my first Buick in 1970 and used to win autocrosses with it (beat a couple of Z-28s). Replaced in '72 while in college with a station wagon (did pull a B/P vette with it & could pull in backwards at drive-ins).

Since then have almost always (uncomfortable without) had a convertible and something with a trailer hitch.

Recently became single again and for mid-life crisis bought a big 2WD Jeep (with a trailer hitch). Oddly see people with Acacia/Enclaves complaining about poor MPG, am satisfied with mid-20s from something that can legally pull a Reatta on a dolly.

My RV has a 2.4 liter diesel and a five speed manual.

All of my cars have a/c including the one with 400 hp and a 4 speed.

My daily drivers are Reattae (just sold the last Fiero). They just suit me. Think the white 'vert was bought origonally by a woman but may have been a gift.

Two things stand out: if I have a garage sale will have to advertise in Hemmings & if sell my house, likewise carproperty.com

So tend to believe in the best vehicle for a purpose rather than a single multipurpose vehicle & suspect may skew statistics.

[Howard]

Never really thought about till now, but my 89 Reatta still had the owner's manual in the car. The information showed it's first owner was a lady. In fact the car had a hospital parking permit sticker on the bumper. The garage the sticker was for was an area designated for nurses. It seems now that all of the members of the forum are men. Go figure.

[Guest Northwestsun]

Interesting topic...

I recently saw a very nice red Reatta at Costco parking lot. The license plate said it all: REDHEAD

Northwestsun

[padgett]

People act differently when a car is new. After a few years most buy a new car and a few buy tools. The Reatta can now vote.

[Guest BJM]

Padgett

Good point. Reattas are collector cars now. When new, they cost a lot of scratch and a decision had to be made. Woman sees it, says it's cute, oh can I have it puuullllleeeaazzz? Guy wips out the check book, "oh all right!"

Wife drives it 4 years, sees that Buick is no longer making them, sees girlfriends driving this new fad, a thingy called the S-U-V! I want one, ppuuuullleeeeaaazzz? Guys wips out the credit card. "Sure"

Now it's a collectible! :eek:

Edited March 17, 2012 by BJM (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

Barney

Don't know if you or the other Reatta experts know, but what WAS the market intended to be for the Reatta? What was Buick thinking?

Given the prior recent history of Buick, lets go back to about 1975. Riviera is the personal luxury car and clearly a "mans" car. All other 1975 Buicks are a mixed bag - family, some young persons (Regal/Century).

1980 - now we have the Skyhawk aimed at youth, Riviera reinvented as a "personal luxury" car going to a higher income bracket, and a bunch of 2 and 4 door sedans. Still, no obvious female car.

1985 - GN muscle Regal. New front wheel drive variants in full size "guise" that could be handled by women or men. RWD Regals for middle income crowd that clung to 2 door styling.

1988 - Reatta, also 2nd year for LeSabre T Type, new smaller Riviera.

What was the market for the 1988 to 1991 Reatta?

[padgett]

Buick dealer's wives, girfriends, and GM "Class A" buyers ?

Sure dumped a lot in Central Florida to support the Buick Open golf tournament.

[wws944]

My dad bought my Reatta new. At least in our case, I think the Reatta could best be described as a "third or fourth car". I'd imagine his logic was similar to what Padgett described: He and my mother had their daily drivers. He also had a ('84 AMC) Jeep Cherokee for beating around in. And he had sold his 190SL a couple of years before, and always seemed to like convertibles. My mother is not a big fan of convertibles, so he definitely bought it for himself. Unfortunately, he did not get to enjoy it for very long and I never got the chance to ask him about it.

[TheBlackMoon]

Yeah, mine was originally (before me, anyway) a woman's car. The Reatta, IMO, was like the Skyhawk and Toronado, a car for that guy/woman who didn't want to admit they were getting older, but knew darn well they were. Fast and/or big was too much for them, but they wanted something they could impress their friends with and yet still get in and out of (note how high the Reatta sits compared to other "sports cars" and the ridiculously wide opening of the doors). They weren't really "intended" for women (hence the HEAVY, Re-enforced, multi layered steel doors), but more for the elderly/middle-aged couple who finally got rid of the kids and recovered their home and life; the newly-made Grandparent of the time who were in their 50's and 60's. Older people wanted that fast, sleek styling, but "small" cars and "sports" cars were known to be deathtraps. How do you capture their interest? You build a small, stable, Sherman TANK with a cutsie name (Who knew a "Reatta" was a noose?) and a sporty, but mild disposition (with it's 6cyl engine). To appeal to the man who still wants a "fighter", you give it a (now legendary thanks to the GS, GN, and GNX) "Buick 3800" engine (albeit in FWD with a heck of a lot less HP) and say, "Hey, and it gets good gas mileage too!"

Just my opinion. At 18-21, I never even heard of the car, but EVERY Buick lover in America over 30 probably did, considering how many tell me these days they wanted one when younger, but "just couldn't afford one". Remember, they were $30K+ cars BEFORE $30K+ cars was "tripping". Nowadays, a car that price is considered by most "economy"!

Edited March 23, 2012 by Consultants_1 (see edit history)

[padgett]

Well I had a GF for a while who thought the Reatta was too small and dangerous. The position is open again.

(Reminds me of the guys in the 300SL in the "Gumball Rally" - available from Amazon on DVD)

[Guest Kitskaboodle]

So then.......if a man drives a Reatta that makes him a "girlie-man"?

Kit

[Guest steveskyhawk]

If a girlfriend thinks your Reatta is too small then it is time for a SMALLER girlfriend.

[Guest Northwestsun]

My black coupe with saddle interior is definitely not a woman's car. Now, those triple white convertibles...

Northwestsun (Finally some sun today!!)

[wws944]

... The Reatta, IMO, was like the Skyhawk and Toronado, a car for that guy/woman who didn't want to admit they were getting older, but knew darn well they were. Fast and/or big was too much for them, but they wanted something they could impress their friends with and yet still get in and out of (note how high the Reatta sits compared to other "sports cars" and the ridiculously wide opening of the doors)....

Does not describe my dad at all. He could care less what other people thought. He just had other interests than a car with max hp. I think he just wanted a fun car to drive to the airport on sunny weekends. (He was an avid private pilot.)

[KDirk]

Funny, I had never really thought of the Reatta as a "chick car", that is a position held by the likes of the VW Jetta and Bug, and the Mitsubishi Eclipse (usually equipped with a pink IPod no less). Maybe this is because I came at it many years after it was new, and most who hang out and post here are clearly of the manly persuasion.

I guess I can see where it may have been popular with middle-age ladies as a new car, but I do not find it to be un-masculine by any means. Sure it's not in the same ballpark as a GTO or Roadrunner or Ferrari for that matter; those all need 93 octane testosterone to run anyway. However, it is a comfortable, respectably powered car with a lot of luxury appointments and I don't think that combination is appealing exclusively to women.

In any case, it seems the current crop of owners (judging by the active membership here and Reattas that I have seen being driven around town) are skewed heavily male. Perhaps that is because there are far more guys who are willing to take the time and effort (read: aggravation) to keep a 20+ year old car on the road. No real secret that maintaining old cars is a male-dominated pursuit, though there are obviously exceptions.

Whatever the demographic trends, all I know is that I like these cars and I've not had anyone yet tell me I was driving a girlie car.

KDirk

[DAVES89]

Kevin you are driving a "girlie" car...

[zoltanb]

Thats pretty good coming from somebody with "Betty and Veronica"

[Guest Corvanti]

besides the vw's, 2 80's "girlie cars" that come to mind are: nissan pulsar nx, and renault le car"...

my wife (at the time) had a '82 trans am...

[DAVES89]

Thats pretty good coming from somebody with "Betty and Veronica"

I know, but the reason for the names are from Archie Comics. If you might remember Veronica was "High Maintenance" and Betty just wanted Archie. Anybody who has followed my issues with my two Reattas know that the Black has been the car I learned the most about Reattas from... thus the names

[zoltanb]

Well I guess they earned the names and reps.

[padgett]

Rarely name a car but read a mystery story probably thutty yar ago and "Heapdirow" (had to find the speeling) just stuck with me.

[Guest gigitwo]

When I originally posted this for Barney it wasn't intended to debate rather the car was more womanly or manly but to stress the possible reasons why and the importance of women with economic means buying this car in such numbers that it just adds to the historic significance of the reatta and their choice to express their place in society. I also feel that women, unlike men who usually express their manhood through horsepower, buy for other reasons and they probably don't spend a lot of time tinkering on it to keep it running nor throw a ton of money on old overpriced cars to store away or to recapture days gone by. They may not be pushing like us guys to make this car a notable classic but their numbers help give it that 4 year run. All but one of the many cars I've owned were 2-seaters and all were classed as highperformance which the reatta didn't claim and I feel lucky to own mine. It was a luxury 2-seater, a refreshing change that I guess most just didn't get, but I did and I,ve attracted my share of female admires, and from where I stand thats a good thing. As for me worrying about a classic status, I'm more concerned about the lack of an aftermarket OEM parts supplier, cause I for one will not be scavaging junkyards for parts in the next 5 to 7 years nor will I be paying someone 5 times the value for a part that they have been hording and unless you intend to stop driving your car I don,t forsee any reatta 10 to 15 years down the road worth calling a classic.

[Guest gigitwo]

I,d like to add that if women in the fifties had the purchasing power of the women of the eighties, I,m willing to bet that the 55 to 57 T-bird would have been their reatta. Remember Suzanne Summers in American Graffiti. Now who wants to call that a girlie man car. :cool:

[Guest spiering.lucas]

I'm more concerned about the lack of an aftermarket OEM parts supplier, cause I for one will not be scavaging junkyards for parts in the next 5 to 7 years nor will I be paying someone 5 times the value for a part that they have been hording and unless you intend to stop driving your car I don,t forsee any reatta 10 to 15 years down the road worth calling a classic.

Sad but true...

[Guest spiering.lucas]

I certainly do not intend to stop driving my car. I have however thought about preserving my driftwood and buying another Reatta to drive. As it is now my Reatta only sees a few hundred miles a month so it should last a while I hope!

[Barney Eaton]

One other (big in my opinion) selling or keeping point is the fact these cars are approaching

their 25 anniversary. In many states that changes registration, license, inspection, etc.

In Texas, if you register them as Antiques, they cannot be daily drivers (limited use) but I have never heard of anyone being stopped and questioned. the plates are good for 5 year and cost $50 NO annual inspection is required.

You can register the cars as a Classic if over 25 years but it is treated like any other vehicle, other than you can use "year of manufacture" plates if you choose.