Chevrolet Citation

[Dave@Moon]

I had a 1975 Monza Town Coupe, sharp little car, and to be honest, 100K miles when i got rid of it and nothing other than routine maintenance was needed. Oh, a clutch if you don't consider that routine maintenance.

It was kind of the "Luxury" version of the Monza. Fun little car. Mine was a twin to the top one except with the wheel covers in body color like the bottom one.

I had a friend in college that bought one new in 1978, at least the Oldsmobile version of it. He kept it one week, then my college roommate pointed out to him that a 4 speed transmission shouldn't shift through the gears 1-3-2-4.:eek:

He wasn't very car-savvy (or bright), and actually drove it for a week shifting in that order because that's where the gear selector told him to shift (following the pattern on the knob). He thought he was shifting 1-2-3-4!

According to the dealer it turned out the car had a shifter from a different (Cutlass) transmission (somehow) bolted up to it. He was given full credit on a trade for a new Cutlass. An automatic this time, of course.

We were aghast that he accepted the deal, and would trust "1978 GM" again. I know that Starfire was taken well beyond the red line MANY times in that first week, and I'll all but guarantee it was sold as a demo to some poor schlub.

[sleeve-valve]

My Dad bought a new 78 Pontiac Phoenix with the 6cyl automatic. Every day on his way home from work it would stall out going up the same hill. The dealer could not fix it. A neighbor had a 78 Phoenix with the V-8 that had no problems. Dad had bought strictly GM since the 1950s but he never bought GM again after that 78.

[MarkV]

Well I saw a skylark and a Citation II out at the junkyard yesterday!

[J3Studio]

"The first Chevy of the 80s!"

[MarkV]

cue funky sound fx! LOL!

[junkyardjeff]

There are a couple of them on the road around here.

[Guest Bob Call]

In the late 80's a neighbor gave me a Citation to get rid of it. I gave it to my teenage son and he promptly sold it the one of the undocumented food preperation workers at the restaurant where he worked part time for $100. A group of the undocumented workers that shared a house fixed all of the major problems and made numerous trips from Houston to their trans-Rio Grande homes.

[john2dameron]

I still have to laugh when I remember the Buick Century and Cutlass Salon introduced in 1978. Those were the ugliest cars to ever be built in a fastback style. Mr friend bought a 4-door version of the Oldsmobile. I trust that my neighbors did not think that thing belonged to me. Someone mentioned problems with a Dodge Dynasty. They should have called it the Dodge 'Nasty. My nephew bought one. It also had to have the transmission rebuilt/replaced several times. I think he gave up on it when it was less than a year old.

[Guest jryan464]

Wow, I am surprised some of you actually had good X- cars! My dad, when he retired from the auto business wanted to buy a new Pontiac from the dealer he worked at. He was set on a Phoenix 4-door Hatch with the "Iron Duke". I really was trying to steer him to a nice 6000 or better yet, a 6000 STE. He wouldn't budge- kept saying he could haul things around the house with the hatchback and not have to buy a small truck. So dad got a Battleship Gray 1983 Phoenix. It was the worst car I have ever known!

Within the first year, it chewed through 2 flywheels! It went through 4 automatic transmissions. 2 from GM and 2 from Aamco. Rack and Pinion rack (remember the GM Power Rack N Pinion debacle?)...

I inherited this POS when he couldn't drive anymore. I used it as my airport beater because I traveled a lot. It finally died with it's 4th transmission failure at 56,000 miles! It was indeed a true lemon of lemons! It was such a pathetic vehicle my son named it "Homer" after Homer Simpson! LOL

[Rusty_OToole]

So, what do you guys think/know about these? They seem like they were far ahead of their time in 1979/1980:

Curbside Classic: 1980 Chevrolet Citation – GM’s Deadliest Sin Ever | The Truth About Cars

I don't know about ahead of their time. They were 2 years behind Chrysler (Omni/Horizon) 20 years behind Austin (mini/1100/1800) and 40 years behind SAAB in bringing out a small front drive sedan. Such cars had been common in Europe for years.

They also were far inferior to GM's own 1965 Toronado/1967 Eldorado front drive cars. Those big brutes were a tour de force of engineering that rocked the automotive world back on its heels when they were introduced. They also had far less quirks and problems than the X car. How GM lost their way in those 15 years I don't know but somehow they went from being the envy of the world to a sad joke.

[Guest]

I don't know about ahead of their time. They were 2 years behind Chrysler (Omni/Horizon) 20 years behind Austin (mini/1100/1800) and 40 years behind SAAB in bringing out a small front drive sedan. Such cars had been common in Europe for years.

They also were far inferior to GM's own 1965 Toronado/1967 Eldorado front drive cars. Those big brutes were a tour de force of engineering that rocked the automotive world back on its heels when they were introduced. They also had far less quirks and problems than the X car. How GM lost their way in those 15 years I don't know but somehow they went from being the envy of the world to a sad joke.

_________________________________________________________

I would have to say Omni/Horizon would be three years behind VW Rabbit. In fact the Chrysler cars were Rabbit copies...and they even used Rabbit engines when they first came out.

Toronado made it's debut in 1966.

D.

[Rusty_OToole]

Chrysler had the first American made front drive subcompact, without a doubt it was inspired by European hatchbacks which in turn, derived from the 1959 Mini.

GM followed 2 or 3 years later, Ford came 3d with the Escort in 1982 and AMC last with the Alliance in 1983.

In fact the Omni/Horizon started out as a Simca. In those days Chrysler owned stock in the French Simca concern. Their plan was to bring over an existing Simca model and build it in the US but this proved impractical.

They wanted to change the suspension to struts for cost reasons. Ironically, the Simca had torsion bars a Chrysler trademark for years. They also had to flare out the wheel wells, American cars are required to have clearance for tire chains, European cars are not. While they were at it they redesigned the interior with new dashboard, seats, American fittings and gauges. Finally they bought VW engines and transmissions as a stop gap until their own 4 cylinder engine was available.

In the end, the new car bore only a vague resemblance to the Simca. I don't think there was a single part identical.

[Guest]

Chrysler had the first American made front drive subcompact, without a doubt it was inspired by European hatchbacks which in turn, derived from the 1959 Mini.

__________________________________________________________

I think perhaps it goes back to the first transverse FWD cars.

1931 DKW, 1931 Stoewer, 1932 Adler, 1933 Audi, 1934 Citroen.

After the war there are four more makes before the Mini.

D.

[Rusty_OToole]

Helfen you are right there were small front drive cars before the mini especially in Germany and Sweden.

None of these were best sellers or started any trends. The Mini was a distinctive design incorporating front drive, transverse engine, unusually small 10" wheels, and a very simple 4 seater 2 door body with no trunk. All parts of the design worked together in a unique way, producing a car unparalleled in economy and simplicity.

In a few years it was followed by the Renault 4, FIAT 128 and a host of others. I trace the front drive, transverse engine hatchback subcompact right back the Mini. I don't care what other designers say. To think they never heard of the Mini is absurd, to say they did not draw inspiration from it and its imitators is likewise absurd.

There was a magazine article in a well known old car publication a few years ago laying out the Simca - Omni/Horizon story in great detail provided by a Chrysler insider. That is where I got that story. The Simca's resemblance to similar European cars is obvious.

[Guest chazman]

I had a strippo, 2.8L V6, 4 speed, '80 Club Coupe. Bench seat, dog dish hubcaps, no AC, the whole strippo nine yards. The only options were the 2.8L V6, (which was a gem of a motor), and FM radio. Ballsiest powertrain in the lightest body. It was fun to drive, but very under-engineered. I usually couldn't go more than a few weeks without something breaking. When it ran, it was fun to drive, but I grew tired of it's constant maintenance. But...I had a free flowing exhaust bent up for it, recurved the distributor, and flipped the air cleaner. The thing could chirp third.

[Guest Bob Call]

A lady who worked with my late wife had a Citation and offered to give it to her to get rid of it. This was early 1990. My wife said OK as she thought it would be a cheap first car for our about to be 16 son. My son son drove it for a few weeks and said it was crap and wanted to sell it. He couldn't get any offers so he sold it to a busboy at the restaurant where worked for $50. The busboy drove it home to Mexico one holiday and it never made the return trip. Finished its life where it should have started, in a Mexican junkyard. My apologies to Mexico.

[ex98thdrill]

It's funny when you talk about the Vega. I thought those cars were horrible, but back in the 70's, almost everything was. I don't know if it was caused by the leisure suites, drugs, disco music and/or all of the above. In retrospect, when I look at the front of an early Vega, it reminds me of a miniature '70 Camaro (which I always liked).

As for the Citation?? I never liked them, but I know several people that reached the 200,000 mile mark on those cars, so to put that many miles on anything isn't all bad. I guess if I had to make a choice between the early GM front wheel drives versus the K-cars, I'd choose the GM. Back in the day, my parents chose none of the above and bought some Nissans.

It would be interesting to hear Steve Moskowitz' take on these cars. Being a longtime Oldsmobile dealer who also worked as a salesman, it would be interesting to see what he encountered as a salesperson's point of view and from what his service managers had to deal with. With Joe Vicini being a longtime GM man, it would also be interesting to see what he found out on the corporate side.

Remember, in the old car hobby, today's cars are based on the evolutions of yesterday's mistakes. When it comes to comfort, engine noise, exterior noise, steering, brakes, suspensions, tires, climate controls, seats, sound systems, restraints, etc. very few cars surpass the vehicles that we drive today. Although I love the looks and the lines of the old cars, I'm glad they're not built like they were. The advantage of today's cars versus the old cars that most of us own is if you have a serious crash with a new car today, you have a better chance of walking away. The term "they don't build them like they used to" is not a bad thing that you can live with.

Edited September 8, 2013 by ex98thdrill (see edit history)

[John_Maine]

I remember that the bank I worked for used Oldsmobile Cutlasses in the late '70's. The messenger that came to my branch put about 5,000 miles a month on. The bank would keep them for 2 years and 120,000 miles. They traded a '78 4 door for an '80 Omega V6, light blue, really pretty little car. At 3 months or about 15,000 miles, something having to do with the CV joints let go. The car was towed to the dealership and sat, and sat, and sat. According to what I remember the messenger telling me, the service manager told him GM did not expect whatever part broke to need replacement for some time, so in their haste to get the cars out, they scrimped on making spare parts. It took weeks for them to get the parts to fix the Omega. In the meantime, the messenger agreed to use his own car and get paid mileage.

[Bleach]

I've worked on these eXcrement cars back in early 80's. The engines and transaxles were a nightmare to work on, especially if needing to access anything on the firewall side of the engine. You needed to be a contortionist and most of the time they were better accessed when they were on a lift.

I was hoping to forget these nightmares.

[Marty Roth]

My father and my sister both had Citations - pleasant and decent mid-sized cars.

At the same time, I was driving and maintaining my collection of Citroens - from the largest big, luxurious DS-21 Pallas, and the Super-Car SM (Series Maserati), and the 15-CV and 11-CV Traction Avant - to the utilitarian 2-CV (Deux Chevaux). For dependability, advanced thinking and design, and ultimate safety -- think Mid-Engined front-wheel-drive, hydraulic suspension, self leveling, crash safety with simplistic replacement of ALL body panels built around a safety-cage.

Citroen pioneered the large-quantity, mass production front wheel drive movement in 1934, and stunned the world with beauty in 1955's D-Series, and then again with the Maserati-engine SM in 1971. David & I owned several of them.

[junkyardjeff]

I was working at a Chevy dealer in 83 when they were doing a recall for the steering,I am glad I did not work on any as it looked like a pain to repair. I just checked the new cars in as they came off the haulers and did not turn any wrenches

[rick60]

I was working at Olds when the X body was introduced. The early ones had the Vari-jet carb. They were frustrating to work on. A lot of drivability problems. The early steering gears had solid metal pressure and return lines to the gear. They were extremely hard to start the lines without cross threading the line into the aluminum housing. The gear was secured to the body of the vehicle, not the sub frame. They were very hard to R&R. They suffered from "morning sickness". No power assist when cold. The teflon seals damaged the aluminum housing. The fix was to R&R the gear and install updated seals that were split allowing the seal to expand into the worn housing. A band-aid fix if there ever was one. After fighting with the gear and reinstalling it there usually was a leak from one of the seals. GM would only pay us for one repair. The GM rep told me I was not properly repairing the steering gears. One day he was going to show me the "correct" way to do the job. He walked me through the repair doing it his "correct" way. The gear leaked afterwords, as they all did. After that incident he authorized additional time for the repair! When I started at Oldsmobile I worked on rear wheel drive V-8 cars. I loved my job. The early X bodies really made my job unpleasant. The Oldsmobile version of the X body was the Omega. We used to call it the Nomega. Nomega to the store, Nomega to the bank, Nomega to church, Nomega to work! I think these early X bodies were put into production before they were sorted out. They caused a lot of PR damage to GM allowing the imports to get a large share of the market. The full size Oldsmobiles were good cars. The X bodies were not.