Guest bofusmosby Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I went to an antique car show today, hoping I'd find an air filter for my car (37 Pontiac), but had no luck. Please excuse my ignorance, but the only way to know and learn is to ask questions. On my original air filter, there are 2 rings of metal with holes in them, and are about 1 1/4" tall. One of the rings is a little smaller them the other, and the filter material looks to be pieces of an old "brillow Pad" or something like that. Where can I find replacement air filters, or the metal mesh that fits between the two metal rings? Should I be updating this to a paper type of air filter? According to the service manual, this filter is to be dipped in heavy oil (50 weight), let the oil drain off, then re-insert this into the air breather. This is not the deluxe one that had oil sitting in the bottom. Is there a type of material I should be asking for to replace this wire-mesh filter, and where would I find this. I am half tempted to get several of those metal brillow pads and use these. Any opinions and advice would be appreciated, and thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 The correct procedure is to wash in kerosene, let dry and then dip in 50 weight oil. Can you post a photo of your current filter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 The correct procedure is to wash in kerosene, let dry and then dip in 50 weight oil. Can you post a photo of your current filter?In the service manual, it says to clean it with either gasoline or kerosene, and yes, I'll take a photo of it tonight and post it here. There really isn't much to the actual filter, so there's not much to see. Thank you for your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unimogjohn Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 This might work. Comes in a roll so you can use once and then toss. Not very expensive.McMaster-Carr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937-44 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Checking on Ebay you can sometimes see the old filter elements turn up. Not sure what size your filter is, but you might try checking out Ebay item number 330693765148 Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Here are some photos of the air filter that was in the car. In one of the photos, I sassembled it, showing all 3 parts. In another photo is a close up of the wire mesh. As you can see, there are a lot of pieces that might be sucked into the carb, that could cause BIG problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 CarlYes, this looks to be what I need, but I am still wondering if others have upgraded to a newer type of filter, or are they just staying with the original type. I will be keeping an eye on this, and hoping that the price doesn't go up too high. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937-44 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hi Jim, It certainly looks like you need a new element. Last time the copper mesh was listed I don't think it sold. The height is a little off for my car, but they do come up on Ebay from time to time. I still have the original copper for mine and I just clean it in kerosine every couple of years and resoak it in oil. Unless they disintegrate like yours I would think they would last forever and I see no reason to upgrade. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Thank you Carl. I agree about these should last for many many years, but as you can see with mine, It's gotta go! It's too bad that nothing like this can be picked up locally. I spoke to an auto parts person Saturday, and he looked at my like I was crazy. Too bad there is still 6 days left on the listing he has. I will definately be watching it, and place my bid just before it ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5219 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I would think that you could take out the corroded stuff and repack the filter housing with copper or stainless "scrubbies" from the local dollar store.You might be able to put in a modern paper filter if you can figure out which one would fit. If you can measure the "cage" that you have, you could try to match a paper filter to those measurements.If your local counterman looks at you like you are crazy, you need to find a new counterman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hddennis Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Jim, is this what you need? Chevs of the 40s: 1528726A 37-48 - Chevrolet%20AIR FILTER (COPPER MESH ONLY)Howard Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I needed a filter for my '36 Dodge so here's what I did. I found some copper scrubbing pads( I don't remember the brand) and they were all scrunched up in a ball. When I took them apart I found that they were actually in a tube shape. When folded in half longways they were the same width as my old filter,but very thin. I wrapped one around the inner screen and cut it to the correct length. Then I took a large sewing needle and some strands from the left over material and sewed the ends together. I did this several times to gain the correct thickness for the air filter,each time staggering the end seam. Then I slid the outer screen over the new material and I had a new filter. Fortunately , several wraps were the exact thickness so I didn't have to struggle replacing the outer screen. You may have to check a couple different types of copper pads to get the right ones,but boy,they worked good and they look like the new original filter element. One thing you have easier than I did,Dodge used a sealed air filter so I had to figure out how to get it apart without destroying it,but that's another story. I will say that the scrubbing pads are a bit coarser than the original and may not filter as fine in actual usage. Hope this helps Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Thanks guys for all the great info and links. I must admit, I started looking around also, and this is what I came up with. If you would, take a look and see what you think. This is on Ebay, and it comes in a 20' roll, and is about 5" wide. Well, the filter elements that I have are about 1 1/2 tall (wide) so I could not only un-roll it onto the innder frame, but also by folding it 2 times, that would help give me the thickness I need. Please, let me know! Also for this price, it's free shipping!copper wool,Copper Mesh Rodent Rat Mice Bat Exclusion 20 Feet Copper mesh | eBay Edited February 28, 2012 by bofusmosby (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I got a box of copper wool as a sample when I was searching for filter material and I was disappointed. It's about 5-6in. wide and on a big roll,but it' real fine and comes apart really easily. I deemed it not usable for filter material ,but if you want to try it give me a call and I'll send you some,save you some bucks. No. is 814-322-4481 I still think the copper scrubs are a better alternative. I never could find the "original"type material in bulk. Must be something only made under contract. Jim Edited February 28, 2012 by jpage (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Thank you for the offer Jim, but by what you said, I can see that my concerns were valid. I was wondering if might come apart real easy. I see that the link that Howard posted looks to be what I need. I see that they also have the complete air filter element as well, but since I know that there were differences between the Pontiac and Chevy vehicles, it might not be the correct size. I really appreciate you guys chiming in like you did. I'm also glad that I'm not the only person who has been faced with looking for this material. I'll give the Chevs of the 40's a call tomorrow, and I'll be sure that post what my decision is.Jim, if you don't mind me asking, you mentioned that the copper scrubbs were a bit too thin when you unrolled it, but how many are you talking about? Using these as a filter was the first thing that had popped in my mind, and if a number of these would be needed to make the correct thinkness, then maybe this would work fine. I know that they are not that expensive, and the nice thing is that they can be found at just about any grocery store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937-44 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Jim, If you can't get the copper mesh you need send me a PM with the dimensions of your old filter. I have at least three or four old air filters and one of them might be the size you need. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Thank you for the offer Carl. I think I'll go to the local grocery store tomorrow and buy some of those copper scrubbers and see if I can get them to work. It sounds really simple and easy to do, if the copper threads/wires don't come apart too easy. If I put multiple layers to build up the correct thickness, then I would think that it would work. Oh well, if they don't work, then I guess I could use them for scrubbing dishes or something. According to what jpage stated, these worked just fine. All I know is the last thing I want to do is to use the original anymore. I believe that it would be too easy to have this stuff be sucked into the carb, and God only knows what kind of damage it would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfire8 Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 My 2-cents worth...:1) Although some folks may disagree with me, I suspect many engines from the '30s and '40s were ready for a rebuild at 50K.... often because of ingesting airborn dirt through wire-mesh filters.2) I have replaced those filters in my old cars with modern paper elements. This usually required some "re-engineering" inside the air cleaner housing in order to make the new filter fit and be invisible from the outside. 3)Lastly, keep in mind that any new filter you select should come from a modern car with an engine displacement equal to or larger than the vintage car. Undersizing the filter would likely have a choking effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Jim , There were enough scrubs in 1 pack to do the air filter. I was probably lucky to find the tube type ones right off the bat but maybe they're all like that,you'll just have to experiment. They are not very expensive and you can always use them around the house. They are substantial and easy to work with and I don't think they would have any adverse effects on air intake or performance. Many of those cars are really undercarbureted anyway! Give it a go!I still haven't found a use for the copper mesh,it kinda looks like a very thin fiberglass matting.The modern paper element might be a good answer if you can find one that will fit,that is if you can find a parts store with a buyers guide and someone capable of checking measurements,( not your local Advanced Auto,etc): I would be more concerned about air flow on a paper filter as they are usually alot more dense and might make it a little hard for the engine to breathe and of course the "originallity aspect". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Hi Jim, Like SPITFIRE8, I replaced the mesh in my '50 Buick with an off the shelf paper filter. I did'nt have to modify any thinh. I would have done so even if a new wire mesh was available. NO MESS!. Just measure your rs, or in your case the largest [outside] ring and the sales person at the parts house should be able to find one to fit. Good luck Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Spitfire8The way that my air-filter and breather is designed, part of the filter (all except the front) is exposed to the eye....well, the top of the filter is. I am going to look into the wire mesh at this time, but you and Ben have given me more food for thought. I will also look in to finding a paper cartridge air filter that will fit, but as jpage mentioned, aren't the paper filters more restrictive than the wire mesh? I would think so, but of course, this is only an opinion, as I have no facts to back this. I would also think that the efficiency of the wire mesh filter would go down quickly because of the wet oil on the wire mesh would be already covered by dirt and dust. This being said, maybe the thing to do is to clean and re-oil it more often, and not wait for the recommended "every 1000 miles" cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I actually planned to do 2 air filters ;1 for go and one for show. With a sealed filter you have to dip the entire top half of the can in the oil and that makes quite a smeary mess. Also,solvents used to clean the filter can destroy the finish.Dodge did have a 2 pc. hvy.duty filter but I have yet to see the right type. I was wondering if you really needed to oil the filter for it to filter dirt. After all we're not driving these cars every day or under adverse conditions and I had a Model A for 16 yrs. with no filter and saw no problems although I realize that's not a good comparison. Jim, you might consider having both the paper element and the "original" and swapping them at shows. I know that's a pain,but I'm a stickler for originality. Hey,whatever works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I agree Jim, I like to keep things as original as possible. That's a great idea on having 2 filters. As far as the oil goes, I would think that the original filters needed the oil to help things "stick" to the filter, instead of blowing through the filter and into the carb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 OK guys, this is whatI did. I used 4 of those copper scrubbys, "took" them apart and formed 4 folded strips. I wrapped them around the inner frame piece, staggering the ends from each other. After I put it together, here is what I have got.Please, what are your opinions on this, and do you think that this will work? After putting both pieces together, nothing comes loose (pieces) when shaking. Take a look at the photos and let me know. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937-44 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 It's kind of hard to tell how restrictive it would be compared to an original,but it looks pretty good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 I figured that after I re-install my fuel pump, I'll start the engine with is removed, the install it and put the top on. If it is too restrictive, I can always remove some of the copper mesh until it has no adverse effect on the engine. I don't know how it will work, but it looks pretty good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Lokks good! I don't think you'll have any problem with restriction as the original was made from fine wire and tightly packed. Good job! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Old48Truck Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Check this out: AHHHH, THE FRESH, CLEAN AIR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Great article. I never could see any photos though. It sounds just like what i did. Well, I see that I have one more thing to do. I've go to take things back apart and paint the 2 rings that hold the copper mesh. Believe it or not, the original felt/burlap is still on my lid, and seems to be a great shape!Thank you for the post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 You did a good job of restoring your filter. One small suggestion. Wonder if you could get some of the foam filter material used by off road motorcycles and hot rods and put a layer inside the copper wool? Better filtration and invisible unless you take the filter apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 OK guys, this is whatI did. I used 4 of those copper scrubbys, "took" them apart and formed 4 folded strips. I wrapped them around the inner frame piece, staggering the ends from each other. After I put it together, here is what I have got.Please, what are your opinions on this, and do you think that this will work? After putting both pieces together, nothing comes loose (pieces) when shaking. Take a look at the photos and let me know. Thank you!________________________________________________________________ Jim, that looks like a good fix. All of you guys that have these air filters that you can take apart are lucky. Two of my cars have oil bath, and although in great shape are sealed just like the wire mesh oil breathers for the crankcase.My own personal belief is that they switched to paper because many people neglected the maintenance, and it gives them something to sell. Oil baths when cleaned and oiled do just as good or a better job of filtering.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpage Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Helfen, What kind of car or brand of air filter do you have. I had a sealed unit and was able to dissassemble it to replace the filter. A bit of work but worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I wish that I had the oil-bath type of filter. It is my understanding that they were far better then the type I have on my car. Helfen, you are correct about mine being easy to get to. As jpage mentioned, having to take this assembly apart basically turns a simple job into a real pain. I've still got to disassemble my unit and paint the 2 frame pieces black as it originally was. I will do all of this before I put any oil on the copper mesh. I'll post some photos when it's all done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Helfen, What kind of car or brand of air filter do you have. I had a sealed unit and was able to dissassemble it to replace the filter. A bit of work but worth it!__________________________________________________________________ The breather filters for crankcase ventilation are for both valve covers for my 62 Pontiac (Factory units), and the two oil bath air filters (factory) are for my two VW's a 64 & 65 type 1'sMy 69 Pontiac and my 76 Olds have a mesh filter for the crankcase located inside the air filter and a tube to the valve cover. This filter can be cleaned in solvent and oiled or replaced every oil change. I choose to clean them, in a tune up shop they just replace them.FYI, it is just as important to clean the crankcase breather filters as it is to clean/replace the carburetor air filter. In fact the crankcase breathers have a direct connection to the bearings via the crankcase.Here is a picture of my air filter on my 65 VW type111 standard model;http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/516081.jpgHere is a picture of the breathers for the 62 Pontiac. The left side is in the front of the valve cover and the rt side is in the middle which is barely visible;http://image.highperformancepontiac.com/f/9130281+w750+st0/hppp_0704_05_z+1962_pontiac_catalina_421_super_duty+carburetor.jpgD. Edited March 5, 2012 by helfen (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I thought I'd follow up and post some photos of the finished product. I sanded, primed (and then sanded) and painted the air intake silencer and air cleaner. I do have one question though. On the side of the air silencer, there is a threaded hole that something used to attach there. I am assuming that it was some sort of vacuum line, but since it has never been connected to anything, I am at a loss. Do any of you know what would have originally connected to the side of this air silencer? I'd like to put thing back the way they originally were from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Nice job. The threaded hole is, if memory serves, a place for a brace to bolt to the housing. The other end of the brace fastened to the engine somewhere. I just can't remember where. The baffle seen on the left in last pic faces the front. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Thank you Ben. I found (after I posted this question) a photo showing this metal bracket/brace going from the air silencer to the top of the engine block. It looks as though I may have to improvise something for this. The part that supposed to be in front is also marked "Front". I'm going to use some red paint to paint the letters. I know that with these old pontiacs, they highlighted some items with this red paint. If it doesn't belong, then it will be easy enough to remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I have all my original air filters sitting on the shelf, I only install them after I get to the show. I run K&N air filters. When I have a cartridge filter like you have. I just go to a local parts store and look for a good replacement fit. Yours looks like a 1990s S10 filter would drop right in. The old filters are pretty much useless for keeping out dirt unless you wet them with waste oil till they are dripping and wash them often. Oil bath was the best they had in the 1930s, the filters today are just so much better why not protect your engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly_John Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Jim, on my Buick of the same vintage, the bracket you are mentioning runs from the air cleaner housing to a tapped hole in the intake manifold (not the engine block). The bracket is shaped a little like a "Z". I realize you have a flathead engine in your car, rather than the Buick's OHV motor.....but I just wanted share this mounting info with you, in case it could be comparable. Best, John Edited March 8, 2012 by Jolly_John (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bofusmosby Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Graham Man, I'll check into the S-10 filter you mentuioned. I originally went to an auto parts store and was told they didn't have anything that would fit. It's obvious that the guy didn't want to be bothered, or just doesn't know anything. I'd still like to use the original when on a cruze or show, but you're right, why not give the engine the best protection avaliable.Thank you John, I haven't really looked for the mounting points, but it would seem not too difficult to find. When I bought my car, there were quite a fe odds and ends included, and I have these items in boxes in the garage. I am hoping that this original bracket is there somewhere. It doesn't look like it would be too difficult to make though.Thank you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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