New keys by serial number?

[Rusty_OToole]

Is it possible to get new keys by giving the dealer or lock smith the serial number of a car? I recently bought a 49 Chrysler with no keys and would like to avoid taking the lock out if possible. Car # 99700194 made in Windsor.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Is it possible to get new keys by giving the dealer or lock smith the serial number of a car? I recently bought a 49 Chrysler with no keys and would like to avoid taking the lock out if possible. Car # 99700194 made in Windsor.

Nope to the serial number question. Your best bet will be to track down an old locksmith that may have an old master set. Believe it or not there were probably no more than ten different key cuts used back then. That was actually a car makers standard way of doing things well into the 1970s. For example I had a locksmith give me a set for '70s era Fords of all brands and I think there is only a dozen keys on that ring. Little wonder car theft was so easy in years past.

[Guest Bob Call]

Keys for newer models can be purchased from dealer's parts counters with proof of ownership and the VIN. I bought 2 for a 99 Malibu this way. Had to show my proof of insurance card with the VIN and my drivers license to ID me with the insurance.

Jim is right about the limited number of keys. Back in the 30's, 40's and 50's GM used Briggs and Straton locks and those locks had five tumblers and like 3 positions per tumbler on the key cuts. An old locksmith shop probably has a bucket of old auto keys and chances are there will be some in the bucke that will fit your lock. Easist is to take the lock out and take it to a locksmith and they can cut a key.

The 50 DeSoto I had the ignition lock was so worn that a pin knife blade would turn the lock.

[Bleach]

I believe there were many more than just a dozen different key combinations for any given make. I have several dozen different keys from Chryslers and GMs from the 40's, 50's and 60's. I used to carry them sometimes to wrecking yards that allowed me to pull my own parts and I would open up trunks to see what additional goodies I could find in them. I was also always on the lookout for more keys that would just be laying around.

[Dave@Moon]

Is it possible to get new keys by giving the dealer or lock smith the serial number of a car? I recently bought a 49 Chrysler with no keys and would like to avoid taking the lock out if possible. Car # 99700194 made in Windsor.

Ummm.., if it is possible couldn't we all get keys made to your car now?

Actually for newer cars it is possible to get keys by the VIN, a fact that is on rare occasion used to steal cars. ( Car Thieves Using VIN Number to Obtain Duplicate Keys - Netlore Archive )

[ply33]

As per a comment to this exact question on the P15-D24 forum: Your serial number can be used to get the build card from Chrysler Historical. For some years at least, the build card listed the key codes. Not sure if that is true for you car or if the locks have been changed over the years.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Keys for newer models can be purchased from dealer's parts counters with proof of ownership and the VIN. I bought 2 for a 99 Malibu this way. Had to show my proof of insurance card with the VIN and my drivers license to ID me with the insurance.

Jim is right about the limited number of keys. Back in the 30's, 40's and 50's GM used Briggs and Straton locks and those locks had five tumblers and like 3 positions per tumbler on the key cuts. An old locksmith shop probably has a bucket of old auto keys and chances are there will be some in the bucke that will fit your lock. Easist is to take the lock out and take it to a locksmith and they can cut a key.

The 50 DeSoto I had the ignition lock was so worn that a pin knife blade would turn the lock.

Bob you can include 1960's GM products in that list as well. Chrysler well into the 1970s. It's safe to say in those decades automotive keys offered theft protection only from honest folks and perhaps the separate door key was better protection against theft than an ignition key. Didn't take a real expert to hot wire a car before ignition locks/switches were moved from the dash to the steering column.

[NTX5467]

As for key cut combinations . . . 5 cuts on the key for my '67 Chrysler and each cut can have 5 different depths (counting "0" as one depth), that would lead to a bunch of different variations. GM was similar back into the 1950s, too, as were other makers.

At work, we had a GM/Chevy key code book which went back in to the earlier 1960s, with the Briggs-Stratton keys. On 7"x9" pages, it the page stack was about 2" thick. LOTS of key code decodes on each page. This was back when the old "round wheel/bent rod" key cutter was used.

What I found was that these same old codes (decoded by depth) could be cut on later model non-Briggs GM keys. As long as the slots in the key were the same (width and which side they were on . . . about 4-5 variations in that area), the more modern keys were a little thinner than the OEM-spec keys, and would work in the earlier cylinders.

As far as GM went back then, the code for the respective cylinder was stamped on the outside of the cylinder case. With THAT code (same as the knock-out code), the "cut code" could be found in the OEM key code book. Once you learn how to read the depths, you can re-cut any car key "by sight", even the newer ones.

When disassembling the key cylinder, EACH of the tumblers should have a stamp number on them. This number relates to the "depth" of the cut on the key for that particular position on the key. Careful disassembly is required! But this can yield the depth codes to build a key to fit that cylinder.

I'd always perceived cutting keys by sight was a "black science" I didn't really want to take the time to learn, but when I happened upon the cut-depth diagram in a later '60s GM service manual, which graphically explained it, the "black science" aspect disappeared for me.

The key can wear just as the tumblers inside the cylinder can wear, which might explain the "few keys" orientations. The comment about the cylinder being correct to the as-produced vehicle is highly accurate!

It seems that in earlier times, a micrometer was used to determine the depth codes, which later led to "the books" from the OEM, which later transpired into the key cutters with the round wheel/rod and then rotating dies. Now, the cutters are generally computerized, but still have to be calibrated correctly to produce accurately-cut keys. Things were much easier in the earlier times!

Over the past decades, GM's corporate policy on cutting keys for customers has become very much tighter and restricted. What originally started as "Picture ID and proof of insurance" can now also include a copy of the title (which can be an issue for financed vehicles!). Dealers can even have their franchises fined/pulled if their employees don't follow the OEM's stated guidelines. In more recent times, the number of key codes which a GM dealer requests/day is monitored and capped, plus an additional access code for dealership parts dept operatives to have in order to retreive key codes.

Historically, OEM key codes for as-produced vehicles have been on the titling and MSO documents the dealer receives with each new vehicle they get. These would be the documents which Chry Historical probably uses, as Chrysler Corp would have been the originator of those documents.

Reality, to me, is that if you have an older car which you need keys for, to purchase a "replacement cylinder set" or have your existing cylinder rebuilt and a key cut for it. When rebuilding a cylinder, you can set the code at whatever you might desire . . . as some fleets had the option of specifying . . . all cylinders are key'd alike, but would use different key blanks to match the vintage of the vehicle. Several options and orientations!

Regards,

NTX5467

[Guest Bob Call]

Back when my uncle ran a garage and towing service from the early 50's thru the early 90's, he had a wire ring with about 25 or 30 of what he called Brigg and Stration B10 keys and told me that with that ring of keys he could open and start just about any GM car or truck on the road. I remember the Fords and Mercurys that he had with the old ignition/steering lock he never locked the steering and took out the key, just used the ignition toggle switch. Never had one stolen.

[Dave@Moon]

When I was 12 or 13 years old my dad had a 1969 AMC Ambassador, that was the first car he ever bought new. He and I were walking back to the car in a very large mall parking lot once when he spotted an old Rambler key on the ground (the kind with the big "R" in a circle motif, probably from a 1960-1964 car).

He picked it up, and for the heck of it he tried it in the Ambassador. It worked. We kept it as a spare key for years afterward until the car was junked.

[Owen_Dyneto]

A bit off the original topic, but just browsing thru a Universal Catalog of Original Equipment Service Parts gives the following for the range of B&S ignition keys for a few random makes:

35 Pontiac 6 - 1499

38 Packard Eight - 250

35 Nash 6 - 200

32 LaSalle - 250

34 Hudson 8 - 200

38 Dodge D8 - 1000

[Rusty_OToole]

Took another look at the car, and found it easy to remove the door lock. Door key and ignition key are the same, so if I key the door lock I have an ignition key.

By going through some old keys I found one that fits the lock although it will not open it.

Now I have to take the lock apart and get the depth of the cuts off the wafers (Thanks NTX5467!)

So far have found out it is a Yale lock, key blank Y149. The local hardware store have them on the rack.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Rusty, with the door lock out, bet there is an old locksmith around who can cut a key from the number on it. That was the case with my '50 Buick. I removed the lock from the glove box[ everything is the same] took it to him and,presto had a key in about 10 min.

Ben

[1957buickjim]

Kind of off topic, but back when I had my 1957 Chevy, my ignition key would start my buddies 1967 Chevy Impala and vice versa. So I guess that the one fits many program is true!

[Guest Albert]

Rusty , see if you can pick up a couple of key blanks from home hardware (normally briggs and stratton ), and i can make up a new key from one of the door cylinders, have done it for my Packards, how did that gas tank work out???

[Rusty_OToole]

Hi Albert, Chrysler used Yale locks, I have located a blank. Will try taking the lock apart and making a key. Have talked to 3 so called locksmiths, they act like I am asking them to defuse the atomic bomb lol.

Have not done anything with the gas tank. I wanted to experiment with the old rusty one first, I cut it open and had a look inside. Will use the good tank on the car when the time comes. It may be easier to fix the floor with the tank out.

[richasco]

Try Jesser's Classsic Keys

[Guest Albert]

I made a new key from the door lock cylinder on the packard, as the ignition key would not work the door..