WHAT'S SO BAD ABOUT '57 & '58 BUICK VACUUM WIPERS?

[Guest Rob McDonald]

I've seen posts from owners of Buicks of the 'Fifities, looking for ways to convert their windshield wipers from vacuum-powered to electric. Here's a recent link provided by BHAMBULLDOG: 1958 Buick Electric Wiper Conversion

In this article, the very clever and persistent Mike Rowand describes his work-in-progress of converting a '58 Buick to full-service electric wipers, including two speeds, interval delay, and a wash-wipe cycle. The project promises to become a kit that Mike can sell to other '57/'58 owners.

I have to ask - why all the fuss? I say just replace all the original rubber hoses, which is probably the culprit in many vacuum wiper failures. If problems persist, fix or replace the faulty pieces of this pretty simple system. That's got be easier than an electric changeover, particularly if one is trying to reuse the original (and rather delicate) A-pillar mounted operating switch.

In 1957 (and I assume in 1958), Buick built an auxiliary vacuum pump onto the underside of the engine oil pump. Its purpose is to maintain constant vacuum under changing engine load conditions. That overcomes the habit of wipers in lesser cars to slow or quit on uphill grades, which can be pretty unnerving when passing. That's mighty considerate, I think, and it justifies restoring the wipers to their intended function.

This dual-function pump resides in the oil pan, which presents an service access challenge but only if it's determined that there's something wrong with the vacuum function. The shop manual says that the vacuum pump is not serviceable and must be replaced if faulty. I'm unaware if these commonly fail but every castoff '57 or '58 nailhead has one to donate.

Years ago, I was told by an old GM mechanic that Buick's combination pump could leak internally, causing the oil to froth and damage the engine. It seems possible that if the pump drive becomes excessively loose in its housing, an unwanted exchange of oil and air could occur. However, I don't think that's sufficient reason to abandon the vacuum wiper system. In the 1957 Product Service Bulletins, there is a repair outlined for a noisy vacuum pump in early production engines but it's unrelated to aerated engine oil.

I'm not a compulsive purist but it does seem that, in this case, it's got be easier to fix than to replace.

[Guest 60electra225]

There are also plenty of surplus vacuum tanks if you really need to increase the capacity. Just ensure you put a one-way valve inline.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Well , Rob I am old enough to REMEMBER the old systems in ever day use. I for one was thrilled when electric wipers came out.

I have had my vacuum motor rebuilt. All hoses replaced. The fuel pump/vacuum booster rebuilt. And if it wasn't for having to change to 12v's, I would have installed an electric unit already. AT BEST the vacuum unit is marginal.

My 2cents.

Ben

[1957buickjim]

Rob, I have reviewed that conversion as well on the Mike Rowland's blog. I actually think that Caballero2 (Dan)'s approach to the conversion is the cleanest. It uses a tri five chevy electric unit to mate to the wiper transmission with a couple of stand off blocks for alignment.

However, for originality, a rebuild vacuum system still works ok. Yeah, it does not work so well during acceleration, but with new hoses and the lines running to the correct places, it works pretty well, and no drain on the electrical system (generator, you know!).

Just my 2 cents worth!

[buick man]

I have said it before and still think it could work. That is, an externally mounted 12-volt vacuum pump capable of, I believe, the 18-lbs or such of vacuum needed to run the system optimally. This would have many features and benefits over the crankcase mounted system. Unless I am missing something here.

[Bhigdog]

The internal vacuum pump going bad and sucking oil into the engine is common. You can tell by the nice blue smoke...............Bob

[Guest rsd9699]

If you can find a 53 or 54 - they had an automatic electric vacuum pump to ensure the wipers always worked. I put one on my 56 Olds just to be safe.

With the wiper motor cleaned and lubed as new and new hoses - it is a great simple device and passing was a problem when it was raining in my 56 Olds but that was just dumb old me. It slowed but did not stop. The vac motor elimated the slowdown. I try not to do supid stuff like that now a says.

There is a updated version of that that is made in Spain - no product name - go figure that one out?

Ron

[buick man]

So what is it Buick used on 53 & 54 to create this vacuum and do you have a link for where you got yours?

I believe your 56 Olds uses a bottom fed vacuum source via your fuel pump?

With that said, it seems possible to replace the 1957 AC non-vacuum fuel pump with a vacuum fuel pump as long as it would be able to pump the same volume at a given rate as the stock unit, perhaps this could work as a back-up.

Still kinda like the idea of installing a dedicated dc covert vacuum source that would work as a backup or piggy back unit along side of the stock engine vacuum unit.

[stealthbob]

That auxiliary vac pump on the 54's was for the power brakes during an engine stall at speed. No Vacuum=No Brakes! They only ran when the ignition was on but the engine was not so I doubt full time duty would be ideal as that would wear them out quick. Also they are a little dear as it pertains to cost

There were two models, Trico and Morvac.

Edited June 8, 2011 by stealthbob (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

The "dual diaphram" fuel pump was quite common on some vehicles back then, but not every vehicle with vacuum wipers used one.

In more modern times, there is an auxiliary vacuum pump on many newer GM vehicles, which is plumbed into the vacuum line going to the power brake booster. I'm sure it'd work fine with the wipers, using a relay to run it, but not sure about on a vehicle with a 6V electrical system. When I looked at the pricing a few years ago, it was over $200.00 for the pump, but I also seem to recall that similar units were also available from Summitt Racing. The New Port Engineering website also lists power inverters for 6V and 12V systems, too.

One of our chapter members, back in the 1990s, commented that the vacuum "motor" for the wipers was really pretty fool-proof in design. The main issues were the leather flap in the motor getting hard and the grease it contacted drying up. The "fix" was to add some brake fluid into the motor and let it soften the leather and re-flow the grease. Of course, new grease worked well too!

In more recent times, one of our other chapter members, with a '58 Super, installed the electric conversion kit from (I believe) New Port Engineering. New Port Engineering - Home of the Clean Wipe Wiper-Drive He mentioned it was designed for the vehicle and installed nicely.

When the vacuum wipers were working well, they did good, but there was still some variation in wiping speed relating to manifold vacuum levels. I think those earlier wiper blades were a worse situation than the vacuum motor driving them was, all things considered.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[buick5563]

I think those earlier wiper blades were a worse situation than the vacuum motor driving them was, all things considered.

Excellent point Willis. My vacuum wiper works great, and cost less to restore than replacing with an electric unit. BUT, the wiper blades (and wiper arms for that matter) don't seem to last long or work well.

I installed a Newport unit on a friend's 56 Chevy and I was surprised at how well it worked. I hated the way it looked under the hood, though. Also, in that Chevy situation, I was able to alter the original knob to fit the new wiper switch. I can't remember what a 57-58 wiper switch looks like, but I know that if I installed an electric unit on a 55, I couldn't make the original knob work.

[Guest rsd9699]

My supply of old parts is long gone. I have a "bucket" of old parts that I bought way back in 70 or 71. $10 for 2 pumps, 2 wipers and 3 vent motors. and a few other items The guy had 10 or 12 vacuum pumps, Chevy wiper motors, power vent motors. I used a Chevy wiper motor on one of my 56 Olds but did not like the "two" speeds. I used one of the automatic vacuum pumps on the other 56 Olds and liked the results better (variable speed). The vac pump was for the Buick's brakes but works great on the wipers - I still run the regular vacuum pump on the fuel pump but sandwiched the electric pump between the wiper motor and the reg vac pump.

The "Made in Spain" pump came with a bunch of late model Corvette parts that were given to me. I will use it on the 56 Caddy flower car to retain the vacuum wipers on it unless I happen across a 81 Cadillac belt driven vacuum pump

I can supply pictures of both new and old if anyone is interested.

Ron

[Guest rsd9699]

Wiper blades only last a year or so it exposed to weather. The rubber also takes a set when left in one position for any length of time. I have never had a metal blade holder wear out but have had the pretty plastic ones break and scar the windshield.

Ron

[NTX5467]

The belt-driven vacuum pump was used on the Olds 307 V-8s, some of which probably found their way into Cadillacs as well as other GM B/C-platform cars with the same "strangled" Olds 307 4bbl V-8 engine. If you wanted to convert the engine to "crank-sensor ignition", then you could put the Olds 5.7L diesel vacuum pump in and "hide it" . . . it was installed where the distributor went in--easier to do and more incognito than an additional "thing" hanging off of the front of the engine.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Guest Rob McDonald]

NITTIX, I like your suggestion to look into the wiper motor itself. "Leather flapper" sounds kind of brass-era Edwardian but, even when you're Building Better Buicks, sometimes the good old way is still the best. I happen to have a spare wiper motor to take apart and see what makes it go flap flap.

[buick man]

Well for me I have always liked the way those vacuum wipers slowed things down like a black strobe light out somewhere on the dance floor

Especially during those tense few moments when passing on a two way hi-way, up hill into on-coming traffic while fighting the dark with dim headlights, the wind and smothering rain

It has always made time, well sorta stand still. Kinda for those few brief suffocating moments as your secondaries kicked in on your big Carter, .......Whaaa-Roooom.... and echoing to the tempo of the blood plowing up through back of your cold neck

At that moment, the wipers wouldn't really stop and freeze mid-way on the windshield - it only seemed that way as it was the momentum

The sensation of free flight and momentum - that is all there is for those brief few moments in time

... and then the final gush and swerve of centrifical force chasing your place back into the right lane before meeting your premature destiny head-on.

/Copyright by buickman 2011

Edited October 6, 2011 by buick man (see edit history)

[Guest Rob McDonald]

WHOA, that is sooo heavy, dude. Post-modern existentialism, right here on the old Buick Forum. Anyone else got the munchies? I heard about you, David, over on Jim's fender bolt plating thread -

. David? Dave? Nooo, Dave's not here, man.

[1957buickjim]

Hey man..those are the most spectacular fender bolts that I have ever seen...shiny...bright...lots of them like stars in the sky..man, I am really hungry. Are there any brownies left dudes? How about some Doritos.......

[buick man]

... I could see better now, the rain had slowed it's deep and impatient surge

I swear, but still not clearly, could see somehow by some peripheral sight through my rear view mirror, the rear trunk of this big massive tonnage on 4 wheels, like some large blank canvas before me

KCIUB, KCiUB, KCIUB like a rotating drum lit only momentarily, once on, once off, from a hue of iridescent crimson of taillights like a lonely and tired desert motel beckoning to it's ecstatic cliental in a trance-like state

KCIUB, KCIUB, KCIUB again and again for each and every glance into that rear view mirror

Then the sound from nowhere, no the sound from everywhere... Ka-Blup, Phewaarr...,

The tire had blown and there I stood looking down as the street light above me was trying desperately to reach out into the cold blankness of night

Now I saw clearly what had been in my rearview mirror

somehow and there it was...

BUICK ,BUICK, BUICK - marked clearly on the trunk of my massive 2-ton car

/Copyright by buickman 2011

Edited October 7, 2011 by buick man (see edit history)

[Guest rsd9699]

Who said Walter Mitty has passed - that was him in his 2 ton Buick you just avoided in the head on collision!

Ron

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Sounds like an out-of-C-body experience. I hardly understand a word but the writing is undeniably poetic. Keep at it David and maybe "Quill and Quire" or "The Atlantic" will pick it up.

[Guest ozzytom]

You guys crack me up!

Thought it was dialogue from a woodstock convention.

[buick man]

If you want some more adventures let me know!

[JohnD1956]

Bring it on. I still want to know what it was in the mirror.

[autonut]

Replying to a very old post but okay I guess.  I removed the vacuum pump from my oil pump for reasons I can't remember.  But anyway the '57 engine has more than enough vacuum without the booster pump to operate the wiper motor.

With a decent motor it should operate just fine.

Buicknut Lee