PreWar Mercedes Benz

[John Bloom]

2 hours ago, Tph479 said:

Licence plate with the “U S Forces in Germany”

 

Car was brought to the states from Lt. Col Edward Lambert who was an army chaplain stationed in Stuttgart, Germany. Lambert must have been absent during the lecture day on the teachings of priests taking the vow of poverty.

He wouldn’t be the first “man of the cloth” to have an affection for outstanding automobiles.

how long did Jim DeBickero have the car?  Is its location known today?

 

[alsancle]

4 hours ago, John Bloom said:

He wouldn’t be the first “man of the cloth” to have an affection for outstanding automobiles.

how long did Jim DeBickero have the car?  Is its location known today?

 

1955 into the early 60s.   Current owner has owned it since the early  70s.

[Williammorton]

I am doing research into Rudolf Hess' 1934 Mercedes 500K. Would anyone happen to have additional photos, information, etc regarding the car? Any information would be greatly appreciated! It is chassis 105355.

 

[alsancle]

44 minutes ago, Williammorton said:

I am doing research into Rudolf Hess' 1934 Mercedes 500K. Would anyone happen to have additional photos, information, etc regarding the car? Any information would be greatly appreciated! It is chassis 105355.

 

 

Not cheap, but I would hire this guy:  https://jonathansierakowski.com/

[Tph479]

My contribution to humanity for the day.

[alsancle]

9 hours ago, Tph479 said:

My contribution to humanity for the day.

 

Tim,  I believe that is the photo that ended up in road and track.

[Tph479]

5 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

Tim,  I believe that is the photo that ended up in road and track.

I was not aware of the magazine article.  It would be neat to see a copy of that Road and Track.

 

I like cool pictures and cool cars and this photo captures both. If I tried to shoot a photo from that angle my thumb would probably be covering half of the smart phone lens or I would end up pulling a hammy.

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, Tph479 said:

I was not aware of the magazine article.  It would be neat to see a copy of that Road and Track.

 

I like cool pictures and cool cars and this photo captures both. If I tried to shoot a photo from that angle my thumb would probably be covering half of the smart phone lens or I would end up pulling a hammy.

Road and Track, March 1962.

[tilomagnet]

Car on the right seems to be a 500K 1st series short tail Special Roadster. On the left is a later 540K, anybody have a scan of the whole article?

[Cadillac Fan]

[alsancle]

500K Series I was owned by Bob Day of Beverly Hills for many years, and then Bob Friggens of Albuquerque NM for another 30 years.

[tilomagnet]

Where is it today?

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, tilomagnet said:

Where is it today?

 

Not sure.

 

[jeff_a]

From a British site.  Is this a Mercedes down on its luck?

 

[alsancle]

2 hours ago, jeff_a said:

From a British site.  Is this a Mercedes down on its luck?

 

 

Jeff it is a Riley.   Interesting cars, still wood framed in the 1950s.  Always kinda liked them.

 

[jeff_a]

Thanks...a Brit told me it was a Riley RME. I didn't know Rileys went so up-scale.

[Su8overdrive]

Rileys were good cars.  Nice ones above.  All you need.  The Nine of the late '20s had short pushrods but a hemi head.  Riley's were true sport cars, from the nimble, appropriately named Imps of the '30s, to the sleek '37 Ulster Sprite, and did well at Ards, the Tourist Trophies, various Grand Prixs through the '30s, into the '40s and beyond.  They deserve their own thread, especially as this ongoing Walter Mittyism over overblown, heavy 500/540 Mercs which Ralph Stein years ago well summed: "They were fat and heavy (5,500 lbs.) and vulgarly curvilinear....if you draped them with medals, they'd look like dear old Hermann Goering himself.  If he had wheels.  A good 540K, supercharger clutched in, would do 105, 0-60 in 14. (With blower it developed 180 hp, without, 115).  I ran away from one in my old 4 1/2-liter Invicta..."

 

 Mercedes cautioned against operating the supercharger longer than 20-30 seconds at a clip.  So what you had was a bloated boat with swing axle rear suspension with 115 hp.  A good Buick Century or Roadmaster could match one, as could a '40 Packard One-Sixty.  Like Rolls-Royces and Duesenbergs, Mercs' draw was craftsmanship.  Duesenbergs were obsolete two years after their introduction, it taking eight years and several iterations to sell 480 of them.  Crash boxes, long timing chains stretched at high rpm upsetting valve timing, the later blown steel con rods welcomed in the non-supercharged models, front end vibration periods.  Fred Duesenberg didn't want to build what E. L. Cord insisted, instead something the size of his earlier Model A and X, or concurrent Stutz.   

 

  Pardon the divergence, but this Merc fawning is getting out of hand, and begs perspective.

Edited July 22 by Su8overdrive (see edit history)

[jeff_a]

Good to hear your perspective on these cars Su8. I have to admit to not ever having seen either of these 80 or 90-year-old models, living out in the provinces.* However, if some hideously-wealthy collector said he'd give me any M-B to downsize a collection, a 1927-33 Model S would be good. Though I mistook a Riley for a Thirties M-B, you have to wonder if the designers for it were told to "make it so you can't tell it from a Mercedes 500 from a block away".

 

This may be a 1928 Mercedes-Benz "SSK" which appeared at Pebble Beach in 2011. Owner unknown. You might try to find a more desirable antique car, but good luck with that!

 

* you just don't see Rileys and 30s Mercedes in Kansas, Wyoming, Idaho.

Edited July 26 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[Su8overdrive]

By all accounts,  the 1927-34  Model S/SS/SSK/SSKL (36-220, 36-250) were well regarded sporting brutes, but their supercharger use limited to 20 seconds when accelerating.  They are, however, respected as the vaunted Sixty of a quarter century earlier.  A friend while on his first of three consecutive Duesenberg Model Js,  in 1979 or so also had a Model S.   What a beast, that towering engine with primer cups for each cylinder.  It was higher than an old Massey Ferguson tractor.

 

 Probably heresy, but some of us never imbibed the Duesenberg, Mercedes, Ferrari Kool Aid.  Obviously, all had merits.  But anyone can design a cost-little-object super, or now "hyper" car.  So many of these early efforts seem ancestors to the latest hyper cars that depreciate faster than they accelerate.   

 

   A well engineered road car, luxe or not, a fiscal mortal might've owned then or now,  is a taller order.

 

   Rileys are just another of the vast field of interesting cars overlooked in the above zeal. 

Edited July 25 by Su8overdrive (see edit history)

[Ben Valkenburg]

 

On 1/14/2023 at 2:35 PM, Henry Magno said:

Bennie,  Your car was restored under the ownership of Dr. Mahmood (Mike) Mirkhani of Cheshire CT. I saw the car in the late 70's after I had purchased my own 320 Cab A. It was a very good restoration as I remember, at the time. I don't remember any details about when he purchased it or from whom. Here is his obituary from 2005 https://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Dr-Mahmood-Mirkhani-77-father-of-local-man-238799.php  You might want to look up one of his children, they might have some information. I noticed that at the time of the repaint to red, an additional molding was added along the belt line aft of the windshield. I'm not sure why that was done as it doesn't really add anything to an already good looking body style. As for the treatment of the hood vents, I have never seen another 320 like this. Alsancle can you remember any others specifically?

It's been a while since I posted anything, but I would like to give you all an update on my search for the history of my 320 a convertible.

 

Thanks to Henri Magno's tip, I was able to contact Dr. Mahmood Mirkhanis son. This is how I found out that the car was purchased in 1974 from John Haywood from Ridgefield and restored by William Oexle also from Ridgefield. I received a photo of the car from the 1970s and found a B-cabriolet with the simular special hood ventilation.

 

I have discovered markings under the seats of the chairs that show that this is still completely original. You will understand that this makes me very happy.

 

If there are any forum members who have information about the owner and/or restorer from Ridgefield, I would be very happy with it.

 

Regards to all from the Netherlands, Bennie Valkenburg

Edited August 7 by Ben Valkenburg (see edit history)

[HermanOTO]

Dear Ben,

 

On Facebook: Old Ridgefield

and search for  'Mercer'  or 'Oexle'  (Oexle in stead of Oexly!!)

then You will find a story about Bill (=William) Oexle, master restorer 

 

Maybe You can put up Your question on this facebook group. 

[Ben Valkenburg]

10 hours ago, HermanOTO said:

Dear Ben,

 

On Facebook: Old Ridgefield

and search for  'Mercer'  or 'Oexle'  (Oexle in stead of Oexly!!)

then You will find a story about Bill (=William) Oexle, master restorer 

 

Maybe You can put up Your question on this facebook group. 

Thank you Herman, I found a lot of info on that page! 

[jeff_a]

On a different note, I came across a photo of a pre-war Mercedes that a friend from Wisconsin sent me. He got it through the usual American-G.I.-brought-it-home-from-Europe fashion and resold it maybe 40 years ago. I'm curious what model it was. Thank you!

 

(I think you'll have to open this as a thumbnail in a new tab)

Edited August 12 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[HermanOTO]

1929 Mercedes-Benz 710SS with a body by Barker, #36.225, license plate UW-302. This automobile came from England.

 

[tilomagnet]

https://rmsothebys.com/auctions/rk24/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C-qANf6OQFV/?igsh=ODRmdHljeDlieGtw&img_index=1

 

Here she comes. Estimates? 

Edited August 19 by tilomagnet (see edit history)

[540K]

13 hours ago, tilomagnet said:

https://rmsothebys.com/auctions/rk24/

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/C-qANf6OQFV/?igsh=ODRmdHljeDlieGtw&img_index=1

 

Here she comes. Estimates? 

Never dreamed this car would come out in what looks like pretty good condition. $14M is my guess, to be immediately followed by $1M restoration, Pebble Best in Show, then resells for $18M.

[jeff_a]

Holy smokes! What a beast! I'll estimate 5.9 million on the Mercedes-Benz.

Looks like this guy cornered the market on wrecked Porsche 356s.
I'll take the sad-looking green Miura. No one else will want to adopt that, everyone here hates green cars, so I'm willing pay the new 1969 price of $24,000, or 34,272,000 Italian Lira.

Edited August 30 by jeff_a (see edit history)

[540K]

Rudi Caracciola's 500 K is very famous because it belonged to one of MB's most successful race drivers, and it is a one-off with taller front windscreen. However, it is not as attractive as the catalog coupe which may be my favorite coupe of all time. Maybe the Talbot-Lago T150C ahead of it. The condition report and photos will be quite interesting to see next month. Given the lackluster prices for the two Cab A's last week, maybe my estimate is high, but it has been so highly sought-after for decades. 

Edited August 19 by 540K (see edit history)

[Tph479]

 The Von Krieger special at a local show the other day. These have fantastic lines.

[540K]

It looks SO much better since they changed the leather color (again).

[HermanOTO]

A rebodied and/or modified Mercedes Benz on a pre-war chassis in near Leiden, the Netherlands.

Who can tell me more about it?

Coachbuilder?

MB Type?

Other interesting information?

 

regards,

 

Herman

[HermanOTO]

 It was advertised in 1949 as a MB 3.2l and bodied by the Dutch coachbuilder Van Rijswijk

[alsancle]

On 8/19/2024 at 5:18 PM, 540K said:

Never dreamed this car would come out in what looks like pretty good condition. $14M is my guess, to be immediately followed by $1M restoration, Pebble Best in Show, then resells for $18M.

Craig,  I think you are a little behind the times on restoration costs.   Assume at least 1.5 million US dollars and probably more.

 

My guess is 7 to 8.   It is short tail Special Roadster in Coupe form that has not been seen for 50 years and had a famous original owner.  Remember,  the 500K Short tail cars have brought 1/2 the long tail version.  Although none have sold in a long time.

[alsancle]

1.6 million all in seems like a bargain.  But the car needs a lot of work.   Probably the pinnacle of the Cab A to me.  500K body on an early 540K chassis with side screens.

[alsancle]

[HermanOTO]

in 1944 it was a lot cheaper:

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Dust and dirt does nothing for the presentation.  While the chances of it being left alone are near zero it would be cool to see it cleaned up a bit and maybe even a cut and buff!  

[540K]

I think this is exactly how the prospective buyer will want the car delivered, but we will see it cleaned up and fully restored by the time Pebble rolls around next year, IMO. The "barn find" look has been all the rage, and makes for a great restoration scrapbook.

Edited August 29 by 540K (see edit history)

[alsancle]

27 minutes ago, 540K said:

I think this is exactly how the prospective buyer will want the car delivered, but we will see it cleaned up and fully restored by the time Pebble rolls around next year, IMO. The "barn find" look has been all the rage, and makes for a great restoration scrapbook.

The car may  be displayed in its current state at Pebble next year but restored you won't see it until 2025 at the very very earliest.

[540K]

They restored 154075 in a year.