Lamenting those new fangled 1957 cars

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

While taking a trip down memory lane with an August 1957 copy of Motor Trend a column with the heading of "Questions from Readers" caught my eye. It read:

"WHY NO CLASSICS TODAY? The classic was so much better than the modern car that I don't see Detroit can sell modern cars."

Signed: E.G. Detroit

Editor's response:

"Sure, the classics were great, but even if they were built at competitive prices today, they would not sell. It takes a peculiar type of individual to enjoy characteristics in a machine that are considered drawbacks by most motorists. Most classics were troublesome even when new, difficult to maintain, hard to operate, drafty and hard riding.

A contemporary driver has been taught to appreciate the convenience of an automatic transmission, power steering and power brakes. He wants a car that can be aimed, not driven. And most important of all, he is influenced in his purchase by the female in his life. She would never sit still for a 146 inch wheelbase, side curtains, sports car ride or lack of compartment room caused by the classic design."

I guess we can by 1957 Motor Trend definition consider ourselves as being among those considered a "peculiar type of individual."

Jim

[Guest Skyking]

To be honest Jim, I'd rather go back to 1957 and stay there.

[1937hd45]

Everything was fine IMO until 1963.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

To be honest Jim, I'd rather go back to 1957 and stay there.

Can I go back with you?

I look at the '58 Mercury Montclair sitting in the garage along side a 2010 Lincoln Town Car and aside from not having come with an AM/FM stereo radio and cruise control there is little it lacks from today's "imitation" automobiles. As I look at the house and remember the house I more or less grew up in there is little difference in the creature comforts, just a lot of difference in the cost. Not too much improvement with the passage of over fifty years. The only things we have now we didn't have then is wide screen color TV and computers. What we didn't have is all the stress of everyday living that seems to prevail with everyone today. I believe we enjoyed life a great deal more in 1957 than we do today, I know I did.

Jim

[Scotts_DG8]

I too wish there was a way to click my heels to go back. Although I’ve made my lives work to date in today’s technology, that being computer systems, I much prefer the period of time when they didn’t exist. No Wii, Xbox, Playstation, DVD, DVR, Cell Phones, Smart Phones, Pagers, Answering Machines, Personal Computers, IPads, and on and on. People had to talk to and work with other people to get things done. Don’t get me wrong, there have been good periods/moments in the years since but we appear not to have managed all the change very well that we’ve introduced through the years.

I make/touch on the above points because for me it is without question a angle in my interest in older vehicles. Each of my cars represents the era they were built in and are a time machine/capsule, even if they are not restored. When I get tense with current day events, personalities, technology and breaking news I can always take a break an travel back to a period when these things were but dreams at best. This site is a good place to go for that. Seeing/reading about simpler technology and mentally slipping into that time helps to dissipate that days frustrations. Best though is to be able to work on my own car(s), but winter though puts a bit of a crimp on that and I make do with this site and another one or two on the net. So, if someone comes up with a way to make this trip work be sure to send me a note to include directions so that I might follow. Scott…

[Guest Skyking]

When I moved back from Florida in '97, I moved back to the neighborhood I grew up in. It's the same neighborhood I delivered papers to in 1957 when I was 12.

Now each day after work I walk this neighborhood for exercise. I look at each house and think back to the people who lived in them. I can recall every family and every car they owned that filled the garages that are now all filled with useless junk. The new owners don't even come out in the yards to talk to other neighbors. It's so different today than it was back then. I look at the empty street corners where we as kids would play baseball or tag or something else kids did. I really feel bad for the younger people that didn't experience those great years, times that, in my opinion will never return......well, that's my rant for today.

[Rusty_OToole]

There was a guy named Gottlieb who did a classic car column in Motor Trend at that time. Someone asked him what 1957 cars would be the classics of the future. His answer? None of them.

He reasoned thus. The classics of the twenties and thirties were the most expensive, hand made, custom designed cars of their time. There were no such cars being made in 1957. Everything was mass produced, mass market, run of the mill junk.

Plus the cars of the past were made of good materials like steel, brass, and leather and could be taken apart and rebuilt repaired or replaced as necessary.

The 1957 cars had no such advantage. Everything was stamped out and swaged together. Upholstery made of vinyl molded on giant heat presses. In a few years they would be rusted out and falling apart and it would be impossible to restore them once the dealers' supply of parts ran out.

Well here we are 54 years later and a few 1957s are still running. Let's see what cheap mass produced junk is considered worth saving.

I would start the list with the 1957 Thunderbird, Chrysler 300C and Imperial, Plymouth Fury (Christine), Chev BelAir hardtop and Corvette with fuel injection 283, Cadillac Eldorado convertible, Lincoln Continental, supercharged Studebaker Golden Hawk and Rambler Rebel 327 hardtop to name a few at the top of the market.

In the import line they had the Mercedes 300 Gullwing, Jaguar XKS, Rolls Royce Silver Cloud and Bentley Continental, Austin Healey, Porsche 356, Citroen DS, and the classic Ferarri V12 and Maserati V8 sports models.

O well it is hard to say what will stand the test of time.

[Rusty_OToole]

By the way Jim AM FM car radios were available in 1958 (first year) and so was cruise control. Not to mention disc brakes and radial tires.

I agree that a 1958 design with the best modern materials and parts would be a very satisfactory, and modern car. The same cannot be said of a typical 1948 car. I think there was more genuine progress in that 10 year period than any other decade since.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Interesting read, guys. I have had most of these thoughts from time to time. As did Dad in the ,50s, same as rhe writers mentioned. As we are saying today. Undoubtably as the younger generation will say in 2060 or therabouts. History repeats itself.

Don't get me wrong. I LIKE MY OLD CARS! But I am very glad some things have improved. Like drive train longevity. Instant starting, no matter the ambient temp. Time alone will tell who is right.

For now, guess we will just have to keep on enjoying our cars the way they are.

Ben

[TG57Roadmaster]

Rusty, what car offered AM/FM in 1958? My impression is that it first showed up in 1963, for GM at least.

Regardless, I'm glad Mr. Gottlieb got it wrong and that our '57's didn't moulder away into

heaps of unrecognizable matter. Kinda hard to restore or maintain blobs of goo.

For the subject of the thread, I really have no interest in transporting myself back to a kinder,

simpler time. I used to think I would, but haven't for many years, because for all the gauzey,

idyllic, "Reminisce" memories, there were plenty of social injustices quietly swept under the rug.

And just as many contemptibly right out there in the open.

My antidote for modern anxiety is to go out to the garage, start up one of the cars, and go for a ride.

Or just sit in or around it, and marvel that all these years later, it's still a beautiful thing.

(Can't say the same for me, as I've already smashed all the mirrors in the garage ).

Going to an AACA show, a marque show or concours really helps, too.

TG

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

I too wish there was a way to click my heels to go back. Although I’ve made my lives work to date in today’s technology, that being computer systems, I much prefer the period of time when they didn’t exist. No Wii, Xbox, Playstation, DVD, DVR, Cell Phones, Smart Phones, Pagers, Answering Machines, Personal Computers, IPads, and on and on. People had to talk to and work with other people to get things done. Don’t get me wrong, there have been good periods/moments in the years since but we appear not to have managed all the change very well that we’ve introduced through the years.

I make/touch on the above points because for me it is without question a angle in my interest in older vehicles. Each of my cars represents the era they were built in and are a time machine/capsule, even if they are not restored. When I get tense with current day events, personalities, technology and breaking news I can always take a break an travel back to a period when these things were but dreams at best. This site is a good place to go for that. Seeing/reading about simpler technology and mentally slipping into that time helps to dissipate that days frustrations. Best though is to be able to work on my own car(s), but winter though puts a bit of a crimp on that and I make do with this site and another one or two on the net. So, if someone comes up with a way to make this trip work be sure to send me a note to include directions so that I might follow. Scott…

Scott, with my career having been in the world of electronics and going back to the days of the first transistors and diodes (built my first transistor radio in 1958) I have over the years been concerned over the misapplication of knowledge gained. I think we may have reached the point where we have more misapplication than beneficial application in terms of the overall affect on society. I'm in hopes that today's penchant for climbing into a small electronics box in isolation is just a phase that isn't nearly as rewarding as those engaging in it think.

I'm also concerned with the functionality of society should some natural or man made event occur that puts much of the power grid in the crapper. Dwelling on our dependence on electronics in food and fuel supply distribution can become damn scary. It is possible that in a wide spread outage with the potential of lasting weeks that 100% of local food and fuel supplies could be depleted in less than five days. There are no old fashioned manual backups remaining in place to deal with anything involving commerce in general. Can you imagine store clerks having to write up tickets, add the total, apply sales taxes, and then make change from a cash box (note box, not register). As we know that would be a disaster because doing even simple math with a pencil and paper is out of the grasp of too many in the work force today.

Yeah, we need to revisit the 1950s and revise some of the thinking that has lead us down the road paved with good intentions. We all know where that road leads!

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

When I moved back from Florida in '97, I moved back to the neighborhood I grew up in. It's the same neighborhood I delivered papers to in 1957 when I was 12.

Now each day after work I walk this neighborhood for exercise. I look at each house and think back to the people who lived in them. I can recall every family and every car they owned that filled the garages that are now all filled with useless junk. The new owners don't even come out in the yards to talk to other neighbors. It's so different today than it was back then. I look at the empty street corners where we as kids would play baseball or tag or something else kids did. I really feel bad for the younger people that didn't experience those great years, times that, in my opinion will never return......well, that's my rant for today.

Bob your lament over the folks now residing in your old neighborhood is exactly why when I retired I chose to move to a rural area where people still communicate with one another. I can't adequately describe the joy of living out in the boonies where we know our neighbors, though they might be half a mile away. It is ten miles to the nearest shopping of any nature, but even the folks that work in the nearest Wal*Mart remember who you are. Want a product not on the shelf of the grocery stores, just mention it to the manager or owner and within a week it will be there.

We have managed to put ourselves in as close to living in the times of fifty+ years ago as possible and loving every damn minute of it.

Jim

[Guest 1956Packard]

I often lament over past times and the desire to turn back the clock to the earlier / simpler days.

Then reality reminds me that with turning back the clock I would also loose such advancements that would have been considered miracles back then. Think medical, think social, think technological etc....

Frankly, given such advancements many of us wouldn't be around to have a chat...

Now if I could time travel and take stuff back and forth with me.....

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Rusty, what car offered AM/FM in 1958? My impression is that it first showed up in 1963, for GM at least.

Regardless, I'm glad Mr. Gottlieb got it wrong and that our '57's didn't moulder away into

heaps of unrecognizable matter. Kinda hard to restore or maintain blobs of goo.

For the subject of the thread, I really have no interest in transporting myself back to a kinder,

simpler time. I used to think I would, but haven't for many years, because for all the gauzey,

idyllic, "Reminisce" memories, there were plenty of social injustices quietly swept under the rug.

And just as many contemptibly right out there in the open.

My antidote for modern anxiety is to go out to the garage, start up one of the cars, and go for a ride.

Or just sit in or around it, and marvel that all these years later, it's still a beautiful thing.

(Can't say the same for me, as I've already smashed all the mirrors in the garage ).

Going to an AACA show, a marque show or concours really helps, too.

TG

TG, Blauplunkt offered an AM/FM radio for automobiles in 1952, but they were certainly not even optional on any car. One has to wonder what they were thinking as FM broadcast anywhere in the world until 1955 were quite limited, though the first commercial FM transmissions were done in 1939.

I did an on air stint with a local FM station for a short time when in high school in the late 1950s. A one hour after school show they were hoping would gain audience for them. Of course it was a dismal failure because of no FM radios in cars. Unless one had a multi-band radio in the home few were listening to FM in the time. Not only that there was no significant programming on FM stations which were often dawn to dusk operations playing mostly music no one wanted to hear. It is safe to say that until FM radios appeared in cars it was a struggling venture to engage in because of very limited audience giving advertiser's no reason to spend money.

Jim

Edited January 23, 2011 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)

[TG57Roadmaster]

Thanks Jim, our '64 Electra 225 has AM/FM, and there's a GM-supplied pamphlet in the glovebox

listing FM stations by state, alluding to its somewhat novelty status. I, too, have pondered our

fragility in the event of some global anomaly like a huge solar flare or magnetic alteration

that would toast our computer-based data. Your observations are spot on.

On a lighter subject, did you see the '65 Mustang 2+2 I put up over on the JFK ambulance thread?

Thought it might bring back some fond, pre-1982 memories for you.

TG

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Thanks Jim, our '64 Electra 225 has AM/FM, and there's a GM-supplied pamphlet in the glovebox

listing FM stations by state, alluding to its somewhat novelty status. I, too, have pondered our

fragility in the event of some global anomaly like a huge solar flare or magnetic alteration

that would toast our computer-based data. Your observations are spot on.

On a lighter subject, did you see the '65 Mustang 2+2 I put up over on the JFK ambulance thread?

Thought it might bring back some fond, pre-1982 memories for you.

TG

I hadn't looked in that thread before seeing your post here. It appears to be identical to the one I had, right down to the standard Mustang hubcaps. I guess someone else had the same feeling about those wire covers or they got replaced after coming up missing. Many of those cars are what one might describe as a "kluge" considering in the latter half of 1964 sales of Mustangs were running ahead of production. Ford was apparently using whatever they had on the shelf when it came to drive trains just to keep the line moving. Mine had the high performance 289 in it, which was great until you discovered it had been pared with a Dagenham 4 speed transmission that was designed to be used with four and six cylinder engines for the European market. 1st gear in that sucker was virtually worthless it was too low. You could red line the 289 in 1st and not be going more than 25 mph. Should have been able to hit 80-85 in 3rd, but it red lined out at about 70. Otherwise it was a great car. The only time that Dagenham 4 speed was worth a flip was on the once or twice a year occasions when Dallas had a snow and ice event and then you could slip that thing into 2nd and it was like a sure footed goat up and down the icy hills with the engine just idling. Fortunately for some Mustang buyers wanting a 4 speed not all got that worthless sucker.

Jim

[Dynaflash8]

I guess I'm one of those who is out of sync; perhaps because of my age. I mostly watch old movies made between 1940 and 1950 on TV. I was too young to experience the rigors of WWII and Korea. My memories are those of a child and really good times, with really neat cars. I graduated high school in 1956 and I can honestly say that the second half of 1956 and all of 1957 were the worst years of my life. As for a Buick collector I remember thinking how beautiful the 1957 Buick was, and then living to learn about the front end ball joints and the two-piece driveshafts. During my years of terrible struggle, from 1960 through 1969, I struggled with two 1958 Buick's that broke down over and over when I couldn't afford to fix them. I had fond memories of my first real car that I bought fully on my own, a 1955 Ford Fairlane, and then I bought and restored one, and it was lacking. I bought and restored a 1956 Buick, because I so desperately wanted one when it was new, and it was more lacking than the Ford. I didn't like many of the 1960s cars when they were new, and the ones I could afford were awful, a 1961 Falcon led the way. A used 1965 Buick Electra convertible leaked so bad my wife, who drove it, was always sick. We did have a good 1965 Chrysler Newport. Later I bought a 1966 Chrysler Newport convertible as an old car and it was a wonderful old car. I wasn't crazy about the looks, but it was a great car. In a moment of dumbness I sold it and spent years trying to find another good tour car. The current 1969 Buick Electra looks like it may be able to replace that Chrysler. I do not lament for any of those years from 1956-1970. They were tough years that were finally behind us with the coming of the early 1970's. So, my lamenting years just don't exist from the period of about 1956 until 1971 when we were able to buy our first new car. All of those used cars I drove to work, I hardly look at today. All those I remember as a child, like 1935 to 1949 cars, I love to ooze over. But outside of our old 1971 Buick Riviera, the finest cars I've ever driven have been the 1991-2005 Buick LdSabre Limiteds and Park Avenue's. My current 2005 Park Avenue now has 62,000 miles on it. I'm wondering what I'll have to do to it, to be able to drive it until I'm 95. I guess the answer is there is nothing I can do, so what new car would I buy? The very thought of it is depressing, as I look at these tiny little junk cars...but one thing sure....with Ethanol gas and $3, 4, 5.00 a gallon gas, I guess the day will come when I have to give in. I can remember guys who swore they'd never own anything but a Hudson, but the time came when there were no more low mileage used Hudson's to buy.

Edited January 23, 2011 by Dynaflash8 (see edit history)

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

I often lament over past times and the desire to turn back the clock to the earlier / simpler days.

Then reality reminds me that with turning back the clock I would also loose such advancements that would have been considered miracles back then. Think medical, think social, think technological etc....

Frankly, given such advancements many of us wouldn't be around to have a chat...

Now if I could time travel and take stuff back and forth with me.....

Having been in the world of technology I believe it safe to say that if the clock were to be turned back so to speak and greater wisdom exercised with employment of technological advancements we would still have seen advancements in medicine, and many other beneficial applications. But just like cars things tend to get into areas not really beneficial to all. The over powered cars of the 1960's and very early 1970s are a good example. Few people have a "need" for a car that can hit 100 mph in under 10 seconds or is capable of 190 mph., yet those cars were built and sold to the public.

A good example of technology tried and scrapped might be the notion explored by the company I worked for in 1970 (actually I was the idiot that proposed the idea). That notion was a computer controlled fuel injection engine that would cut out two cylinders at various speed levels until the car was only running on 4 cylinders. We scrapped the idea for a number of reasons, not the least of which was reliability. So what happens, a few years later GM tried that idea and as we suspected in 1970, it was a reliability failure. I noticed a while back another automaker is attempting to venture into that abyss. Still ain't going to work worth a flip. Actually is potentially only beneficial to drivers who spend more time driving above 60 mph than under.

This current generation of "smart" telephones is something that represents technology that should be scrapped since the public in general apparently lacks the brains to exercise intelligence in their use. We can have technology advancement without applying to things without significant benefit or that the public is just too immature to properly use.

Jim

[R W Burgess]

........food and fuel supplies could be depleted in less than five days. There are no old fashioned manual backups remaining in place to deal with anything involving commerce in general. Can you imagine store clerks having to write up tickets, add the total, apply sales taxes, and then make change from a cash box (note box, not register). As we know that would be a disaster because doing even simple math with a pencil and paper is out of the grasp of too many in the work force today.

Jim, in a case like that country folk will have to educate others on growing their own food products, killing and curing wild animals for winter food, and taking care of themselves. Clerks writing up tickets will not be a problem. My oldest son is doing just that with my company billing right now. He works with a pc on his weekly job, but "Old Dad" is still stuck in the 50's and writes everything by hand. Amazingly, my wife does not understand why my handwriting has not improved. I've certainly had plenty of practice.

Wayne

[junkyardjeff]

Boy how the comment about FM only playing music people did not want to hear rang true as my parents had this old AM/FM radio in the living room as I grew up and liked easy listening music so when I became a teenager it was hard for me to go to FM at first since that crappy easy listening music is all I thought that was on FM. I still have that radio and guess its from around 58 or 59 and its in the living room again and I listen to a saturday night oldies program on it when I get a chance,I celebrated when the easy listening stations changed their formats years ago.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Jim, in a case like that country folk will have to educate others on growing their own food products, killing and curing wild animals for winter food, and taking care of themselves. Clerks writing up tickets will not be a problem. My oldest son is doing just that with my company billing right now. He works with a pc on his weekly job, but "Old Dad" is still stuck in the 50's and writes everything by hand. Amazingly, my wife does not understand why my handwriting has not improved. I've certainly had plenty of practice.

Wayne

Wayne there is certainly nothing wrong with doing things the old fashioned way. There has been more than one occasion in the past when I advised a small businessman their business was too small to benefit from computerizing. As I see it, if it takes more work/time to do things with a computer than manually you don't need it. On the other hand, I have never understood the stupidity of large grocery chains and the likes of Wal*Mart not to take advantage of automatic ordering based upon what is scanned at the register. Idiots would still rather walk the darn aisles with a darn gun making manual entries to be batch loaded later. STUPID! How many times have any off us been totally irritated when going to a store and finding they are out of something they should never be out of under any circumstance.

As for teaching city folks how to survive I'm not sure there are enough country folks left to do that job. I'm not paranoid, but one of the lesser reasons I bought land in the boonies when I retired was to have a haven for the entire family if push ever came to shove. It's been many, many years since I personally participated in slaughtering hogs, milking cows, or plucking chickens, but I suspect I can still manage. Most people don't realize it but a garden the size of half an acre can feed a whole bunch of folks for a year, if they know how to can vegetables.

What does concern me greatly is the millions of folks that would spill out into the country looking for food after a week of no resupply in the cities. Things could get real messy real quick. We saw the potential of that with evacuees trying to flee impending hurricanes and those who had nothing left afterward. It's hard to believe just how quick people can panic and go into basic survival mode and become downright dangerous.

Jim

Edited January 23, 2011 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)

[Guest Skyking]

This current generation of "smart" telephones is something that represents technology that should be scrapped since the public in general apparently lacks the brains to exercise intelligence in their use. We can have technology advancement without applying to things without significant benefit or that the public is just too immature to properly use.

Jim

Jim, this just represents the lack of common sence which we also lost.

[Larry Schramm]

Can you imagine store clerks having to write up tickets, add the total, apply sales taxes, and then make change from a cash box (note box, not register). As we know that would be a disaster because doing even simple math with a pencil and paper is out of the grasp of too many in the work force today.

QUOTE]

Who has enough CASH on hand to shop for a week or two? Would be a good question to know the answer.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Can you imagine store clerks having to write up tickets, add the total, apply sales taxes, and then make change from a cash box (note box, not register). As we know that would be a disaster because doing even simple math with a pencil and paper is out of the grasp of too many in the work force today.

QUOTE]

Who has enough CASH on hand to shop for a week or two? Would be a good question to know the answer.

Actually, it won't make any difference if you have cash or not. When was the last time you saw a product of any kind with a price marked on it outside of fresh meat, unless in a very small store? If computers are down for any reason the majority of stores are just flat out of business. Your ATM or Credit card becomes immediately useless as well. 'Tis a bit more than interesting to dwell upon isn't it?

Jim

[Larry Schramm]

Believe it or not, Michigan still has item pricing. Every item on the shelf must have the price of it on the item. There are some exceptions like lumber, etc but they are few. The new govenor is proposing to discontinue that practice though.

[Rusty_OToole]

For all you doubters of FM car radios in 1958 have a look at this page of Lincoln sales literature.

1958 LINCOLN CAPRI Information Specifications Resources Pictures

Notice the "Travel Tuner" FM receiveer in the accessories list.

[TG57Roadmaster]

Excellent Rusty, and thank you. It's also shown right here in a '58 brochure.

Must be as rare as hen's teeth, but I bet Walter Higgins can elaborate on it.

TG

[Rusty_OToole]

Thanks TG57. I checked out the brochure. Several accessories are described as "new" but the FM radio is not. I wonder if it was available before 1958? I went back and looked at the 57 brochure and they showed the radio but the print was too small to see.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Guys when I made a comparison type statement about my '58 Mercury lacking an AM/FM stereo radio it was not with the idea of proving or disproving AM/FM radios may have been available on some cars as an option in the 1950s. I once owned a '58 Lincoln Continental and it did not have the optional AM/FM radio. An optional AM/FM radio would have been an almost worthless waste of money in 1958.

It would seem in the overall scheme of discussing radio types in automobiles it might be of more importance to know when AM/FM radios appeared as standard equipment and on which vehicles. This issue is not unlike determining when heaters were first made standard equipment in automobiles or when dual windshield wipers were made standard equipment. I have lived long enough to see radios and heaters become standard equipment, automatic transmissions become standard equipment and manual transmissions become optional, etc. All of these things make for interesting discussion, but may be no more important than knowing how many automakers offered an in dash CB radio option.

Jim

[Rusty_OToole]

The point was how little real progress has been made since 1958. Today's cars are better in many ways but due to slow incremental progress more than major innovations. Most of the inventions were already there.

I also maintain that there was tremendous progress between 1947 and 1957, more than any other decade since.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

The point was how little real progress has been made since 1958. Today's cars are better in many ways but due to slow incremental progress more than major innovations. Most of the inventions were already there.

I also maintain that there was tremendous progress between 1947 and 1957, more than any other decade since.

I would tend to agree with the latter statement. No question about the automakers moving on beyond pre WWII thinking with every aspect of what kind of automobile was to be offered to the public. Of course we also have to consider WWII delayed implementation of things already in the works and rather than make radical changes following that war it was easier to meet demand by producing basically pre war cars. That war basically killed off Packard, Willys, Studebaker, Nash, and Hudson; as well as putting a major hurt on Chrysler that it only briefly escaped from twice. It almost got Ford as well.

Jim

[Scotts_DG8]

The point was how little real progress has been made since 1958. Today's cars are better in many ways but due to slow incremental progress more than major innovations. Most of the inventions were already there.

I also maintain that there was tremendous progress between 1947 and 1957, more than any other decade since.

I’m a believer. I’m a believer in that the automotive industry has managed technology change well, maybe even to a new level, and at the same time has taken the concept of marketing to new levels. I would agree that change/improvements, at least on the home field, has come slow. The biggest changes that they have introduced until recently had been focused on implementing music, voice and GPS technology into their fleets. Performance is another angle too, although with a more limited market. The average day to day car does not greatly change year to year. In a lot of way too though the foreign competition has learned to moderate change. The front runners either brought/introduced mileage advances or deep discount transportation to market and has since slowed their pace of change. Most new change is moderate and over played in marketing. Most consumers are content with what choices are presented and made available, sales has never come to a complete stop, and even with the our recent financial crisis consumers would have bought but there was no money to lend, it dried up indiscriminately across the board. I am a believer that the highly publicized new Volt and Cruise along with the Ford Escape and Fusion offerings are technology that could have been brought to market some time back, there would have been a market but not a profitable market to support them. It’s all dollars and cents in the end, and making the technology stretch increases the percentage of the dollars and cents made of each unit sold.

I’ll make one personally interesting observation made from an experience I had while in the UK a couple years back. When I traveled to the UK I normally stayed there for a 6 week stretch and I had the opportunity to drive several different cars over a four year period. Toward the end of my UK travels I had the opportunity to drive a Toyota, not a small size econo size vehicle but a mid size. I don’t recall the model but would put it in the class of the Avalon. This car scooted around real well and my daily commute was 32 miles each way. This car got on average 32 miles to the gallon which really impressed me and I finally decided to lift the hood to see what size V6 was in it while filling it up one week. To my surprise what I found was not a V6 but a 4 cylinder. Ever since that bit of knowledge I always questioned why the home teams never introduced a 4 in a midsized car? Are we so accustom to V8 and V6 performance that sales couldn’t support them? It is not due to technology and performance not being there. When I bought my Jeep Liberty I asked if a 4 cylinder was available, the answer I got was that the early models offered a 4 cylinder diesel but it was dropped and only the single V6 was available. That’s my quirky POV and can only hope that it came off as more than rambling. Scott…

[nzcarnerd]

Someone made the comment that the main advance in modern cars is drivetrain longevity which is what I agree with. Up until not too many years ago 100,000 miles was considered a good distance before a rebuild. Nowadays you should expect at least twice that. We have driven the same 1987 Toyota station wagon for almost twenty years and so far - touch wood - the only repair has been a set of valve stem seals. Of course there are the usual replacements of brakes,tyres etc but it still has most of its original exhaust. The car is a Crown commercial wagon (1G 2 litre sohc six and 5 speed manual) that was imported from Japan with 80,000km on it, it now has 335,000 km on it and still has its original clutch. Most modern cars only require a regular oil change and replacement of the cam belt every 100,000km. I see that more recently engines are going back to chain drive for the cams as dohc engines can suffer terminal damage when a belt brakes. We have a 2001 Nissan Elgrand with the VQ35 engine which has a cam chain which I would expect to last most of the life of the engine. I have an another, older, Toyota with the 6 cylinder 5M (2.8) in it which has a cam chain. I replaced that at 220,000km.

Older cars I recall from my younger days were a 1956 Australian DeSoto (really a 1953 Plymouth with teeth) which my grandparents owned from 1958-70. It had the 230 side valve six. It needed a full engine rebuild at 98,000 miles. Their previous car, a 1934 Buick, had its engine rebuilt at 120,000 miles in 1953. I found some receipts some time ago for a vehicle my father owned in the early 1960s - a 1958 British Ford Thames van (a forward control van with the 1700cc Consul 4 in it). At about 40,000 miles it needed all of it front end moving parts replaced. Most of the British cars of that era had a very short lifespans and that was where the Japanese makers bettered them. As soon as the early Datsuns and Toyotas began to appear people appreciated that they were well built and lasted longer.

[John_Maine]

Speaking of Motor Trend, a customer of mine found the 1957 Motor Trend new car issue at his transfer station and brought it in to me. It is in excellent shape and was a blast to read. Road tests of the '57 Ford, '57 Chevy and '57 Plymouth.