Barney Eaton Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 There is another recent post about antenna repair and it was noted that the plastic line part is getting hard to find and expensive.I have been in contact with other Reatta owners and some have shared their ideas on repair and are sending me what they think will work. I am willing to repair your antenna at no cost, under the following conditions. (1) you are not reselling them.(2) you understand the fix may not last and you must report if it fails(3) You must pay shipping both ways.(4) I am only replacing the plastic line. The mast cannot be bent or damagedThe units will be disassembled, cleaned and lubricated, but no other internal parts can be knowingly bad. It is very important that the mast is not bent as those are not available. Contact me if you want to be part of the test. (Barney@texas.net) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steveskyhawk Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 The cheapest and easiest way to repair a Reatta power antenna is to replace it with a good working used unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Double M Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 That is very generous of Barney. Very cool. A generic aftermarket Power Antennea, however, costs just $59.99 and seems to be an easy swap that requires only a trip to the local auto parts store. Unless anyone is trying for judging points for having an original Antennea, it seems easy enough to obtain without hunting for and then possibly repairing an original one, without the shipping costs and wait time as well.Also if it doesnt work, you can always return it. After all it is new.There is one in my car now, it came with it and it doesnt look much different than the ones I have seen pictured and a whole shelf full of the very same one are waiting at my local Auto Zone.I'm not trying to flippant, disrespectfull, sarcastic or anything else besides helpfull, so put away your knives, but an Antennea is just an Antennea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HessLakeGuy Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Hello all:OK, on my 5,400 mile 1990 coupe the antenna stuck in the up position, so I unplugged it and parked it for the winter. (Even a low mileage car can have a broken antenna). Once I get it off the car, how do I retract it without causing any damage to the mast or any other part? Tom PS We fixed my 1991 polo green car with a mast from the Cadillac dealer. Works and looks great. That one gave out at about 31,000 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) When the plastic line breaks, 99% of the time it is in the up position. You usually cannnot push it down because the broken end will not track into the groove.Simple mast removal instructions. On the outside of the fender there is the chrome ring and inside that there is a black plastic part with little notches in the edge. If you have 12 point sockets, find the one that fits the notches and unscrew the black plastic part. Otherwise carefully remove it with pliers. Once it is unscrewed and loose on the antenna, you can pull the antenna mast out of the assembly.See photo below.Once you have the mast removed, you unscrew the chrome bezel on the fender, remove two screws that hold the motor to the body, unplug the coax and three wire connector that comes from the radio and it is ready to pull out of the car. The collapased antenna will fit into a Priority Mail medium size box (tall/flat)As far as other antennas that will work on a Reatta, I am only interested in keeping the original type. If your radio works with a bent coat hanger and it suits your lifestyle then use the coat hanger. Edited January 22, 2011 by Rawja typo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadster90 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 What a wonderful, caring, and genuine offering Barney....folks like you are what makes this the absolute finest automobile forum on the internet. Not only are you helping the folks with their current problem, but conducting research for the betterment of future antenna repairs....outstanding sir .....Nic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I think I may take you up on your offer Barney. I sent you an email earlier. One question though.. If it breaks again, do you want me to send it back again for you to try another fix? Now I just need to figure out what to do with that hole where the antenna would go when it rains... hmm... any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReattaFan1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Oh man! Thats great!! ツ I wish I had the original antenna assembly to send ya. The previous owner put in a manual extendable antenna. I guess he had other plans for the power antennaAuto Coop Door II – Antenna : Nifty-Stuff.com Edited January 23, 2011 by ReattaFan1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwack Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I think I may take you up on your offer Barney. I sent you an email earlier. One question though.. If it breaks again, do you want me to send it back again for you to try another fix? Now I just need to figure out what to do with that hole where the antenna would go when it rains... hmm... any ideas?Bazooka bubble gum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnelle Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Give me a break. How about good old fashion 100 mph duct tape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I'm looking for something water-proof, but that won't mess up the pain when I take it off (could be a month or two before it's all said and done, and I can re-install it...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReattaFan1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Antenna hole filler plug Honda part # 82871-671-000 25mm Rubber Grommet$2Its used in Honda Accords & Integras to plug up antenna holes.It should fit other cars I think that hole is almost a standard size.Or look in your local car parts store in the that section that has odd and ends. they might have that very plug or a similar filler grommet. Its OEM black rubber antenna plug Edited January 22, 2011 by ReattaFan1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steveskyhawk Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 The quickest, easiest, cheapest way to fix a power antenna on a Reatta is to replace it with a good working used OEM unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 anyone else having a problem with an echo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I was about to say the same.... :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steveskyhawk Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 The quickest, easiest, cheapest way to fix a power antenna on a Reatta is to replace it with a good working used OEM unit or a fixed mast antenna like Ronnie did. All this hand wringing over a broken antenna only perpetuates the myth that Reattas are difficult to maintain. They are not.Anybody with a legitimate question on how to fix their car please refer to Ronnie's site or feel free to contact me direct. No drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Thanks Doug for answering my question. I'll look into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReattaFan1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Anytime Marck. What makes this forum so great is the knowledge and experience everyone has and that they share. Offering free repairs with just the cost of shipping. How often do you find a deal like that? That's awesome! I mean, antenna repair isn't rocket science. But most woudnt think to have one they have rebuilt. The last antena assembly I repaired I found the replacement mast with the solid polymeric cord already attached. I never thought to look for the flex line material alone. Barney, you said members are saying the material is getting hard to find and expensive. In upholstery there is a cord material used in making what is called a welting seam. You can find the material at a local craft or upholstery shop by the foot. If you look around for the stuff just so you know it's depending on what your local shops stocks. Some cords are cotton blend rope braids, others like in the picture below are solid and flexible, but Im not sure what its made of. You want the solid, nylon like material. The cords are available in an array of diameter sizes and average $7 to $9 per foot. Just an idea to you as a possible alternative. This should be a good fix providing the flex line stays affixed to the antenna mast. Cold temps can be an issue. Nylon gets brittle in the cold. Edited January 22, 2011 by ReattaFan1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Isn't that a little expensive for weed-eater line?When I get around to repairing mine I was thinking of using coated stainless steel cable something like this. Yes, I know it would not be like the original but maybe it would last longer. Has anyone tried using steel cable in place of plastic?There's a reason that plastic cord was originally used. Probably to have a weak point so that if something goes wrong, you don't screw up your antenna, or your motor.Just a thought.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 OR... maybe the same engineer who designed the crank arms for the headlight motors designed the antenna mechanism.Possibly, but maybe not... Funny you should bring up the headlights. That's part of my original thought. Someone of eBay sells aluminum rollers for the headlights. But those also eliminate the weak spot if something goes wrong with the motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Like I said, I have some samples coming from two different Reatta owners. On claims he can get monofiliment fishing line large enough to work (the factory stuff appears to be 3mm or .120)Since I do not have a upholstery shop in my town of 40,000 can someone give me an idea of the diameters available? In the post above, the $7 to $9 per foot seems high.... most fabric is sold by the yard which would make it more reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReattaFan1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Isn't that a little expensive for weed-eater line?edger line was my first thought too, but the largest I could find was 2 mm (0.080inch) line. That's much to small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 OR... maybe the same engineer who designed the crank arms for the headlight motors designed the antenna mechanism.Or maybe as Padgett has been known to say, if G.M. could save a nickel on a part with the units they sell that adds up to serious cash$$$. I think you should give it a try Ronnie. If it doesn't work, I have access to hundreds of antennas. [The u pick yard is full of them] I can get you a replacement, no problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReattaFan1 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Well with some luck, I found a website that has what you'll need for the DIY type of guy. Google "antennamastsrs" or click this link www.AntennaMastsRus.com and search for the Riviera, The Reatta was greyed out and not clickable. I believe The Riviera is exactly the same. Be sure to pick the correct piece you need. Remember this is only if needed a new cable. Your mast cant be bent/broken as well your motor still functions. The install takes some time but it is doable as long as you understand how the mechanism works. The OEM replacement GM part number is 22039349. Go to www.reatta.net for instructions on how to replace it. Edited January 22, 2011 by ReattaFan1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 As you can see, I wrote this antenna information/repair post about 10 years ago, but it still should work execpt for the part numbers.Link = Reatta Data PageIn the past I did not worry about the length of the flex cable and always wondered why GM would release so many different part numbers for what appears to be the same part. Once I stopped and thought more about the operation, there are some down sides to the line being too long or too short. Both can cause extra stress on the line near the bottom end and speed up the failure at that end. As we work on a possible DIY fix, I will try and explain in more detail what you must do if we find a substitute plastic line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReattaFan1 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) Barney, It sounds like over the years that you've come up with the optimum type material. Being your offing this job for free, and the decade of experience you have shows you have enough faith in a prototype to take the next step, to get a census on the reliability in extended use. I'd be curious if it'd hold up in the Upper Sates and Canada in the extreme Arctic climate, thats when plastic blends get brittle and breaks. The other great thing about the test is that it's really a win win situation. The work your doing is free, the person has really nothing to lose. If the line breaks again they'd have the same antenna they had to begin with, nothing less. But the stipulations to begin with are no guarantees on how long the unit would last and to report the failure. Barney good luck on getting us a good fix. At the time of this post you had 345 views, and thats just within 24 hrs of the original thread. That there alone shows it's a good interest in a repair. As I said in a prior post, if I had the original antenna Id send you mine. If I come across one in the near future Ill send it your way.Here is a thought for a totally new design... A sealed mast with a hydraulic pump to raise and lower the mast using hydraulic fluid like power steering fluid. With the fluid the mast would be self lubricating... LOL Just kidding, I know thats a lil far fetch but one can dream. Edited January 23, 2011 by ReattaFan1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 After seeing the antenna that lets the chickens out, you know Rube Goldberg is not really dead.I don't claim to know much about electronics, I can identify a light bulb and batteries and that is about the extent of my electrical expertese........ What I don't understand is why do we need this type of antenna at all, cell phones work everywhere, inside, outside, probably under water, so why can't we have a car antenna that works as well as a cell antenna and it could be about the size of a postage stamp stuck to a window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReattaFan1 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) After seeing the antenna that lets the chickens out, you know Rube Goldberg is not really dead... ...What I don't understand is why do we need this type of antenna at all, cell phones work everywhere, inside, outside, probably under water, so why can't we have a car antenna that works as well as a cell antenna and it could be about the size of a postage stamp stuck to a window.LOLI know what you mean... I hardly ever listen to the radio at all. My iPhone is all that I use to listen to music, I either listen to streaming music off the internet or the MP3's. The Pandora Radio app is the best! For me, RF radio is dead. I think more or less for everyone, its all about keeping the Reatta original. My car is by far a show car, Im just happy with the manual extendable antenna. I never listen to the radio it stays down. Edited January 23, 2011 by ReattaFan1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Here is a thought for a totally new design... A sealed mast with a hydraulic pump to raise and lower the mast using hydraulic fluid like power steering fluid. With the fluid the mast would be self lubricating... LOL Just kidding, I know thats a lil far fetch but one can dream.I don't see a way that could work.. without spewing fluid all over your car. Hmm.... now my brain will be bleeding trying to figure out a way to make this work..... I think I've got some round tuits I can loan someone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReattaFan1 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) I don't see a way that could work.. without spewing fluid all over your car. Hmm.... now my brain will be bleeding trying to figure out a way to make this work..... I think I've got some round tuits I can loan someone....Hey Marck. Yeah, your right! With the way the mast is now designed it would spew fluid all over the place. But take another looky back at the prior post, I said a "sealed mast". It' would need to be totally leak proof in order for the pressure to build and move the mast. Like some rubber O rings between the layers. The animated gif below kinda show you what I had in mind, but with the extendable pieces still present and sealed. In robotics some types of cylinders instead of liquid hydraulics use compressed gas or air. But that really would be a joke to change the design now. RF radio really is a dying breed. But Im sure it's a pretty good reason the power antennas are designed the way they are. For the most part the OEM lasts a pretty good long time Edited January 23, 2011 by ReattaFan1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackMoon Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) Steve, many people who own Reattas, like many other classic automobile collectors, like to keep their vehicles as close to OEM as possible. If it is your desire to add lots of aftermarket mods like DVD stereos, "bumping" sound systems, Turbo- or Super-Chargers, etc. to your "ride", then that's perfectly okay, but please, I ask that you stop trivializing the enormous and gracious offer Barney (and others) presents to others.Personally, when my OEM antenna went up years ago, because there were so few options available at the time, I went with a $60 replacement antenna. A little child thought it was nice too, and then broke it off (while I was parked and playing the radio), trying to take it home with her. I drove back home to MD from Michigan like that, removed the $60 "junk" I was left with, installed an interior (window) antenna, and had a body shop cover/remove the old antenna hole in the fender. For me, that was best, but far be it for me to suggest that because this was okay for me, YOU should do this. So please, this is NOT THAT KIND of forum/community. Edited January 23, 2011 by Consultants_1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Do you remember where you got your window antenna? How much it was, what brand, etc.? I thought about putting one in mine, just because it looks sleeker...Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 While the hydraulic antenna is a "idea", we (the auto world) have already been there. The earliest power windows and seats were hydraulic, convertible top mechanism was operated by hydraulics after that. Can you imagine running one or two lines from the engine compartment to the rear fender antenna. Not a big issue but over time, there is the aging process, leaking fitting, someone running a screw into a line, I think the generations before us must have learned some lessons on this hydraulic stuff on cars and that is why we don't have them today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Harness Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I've wondered about switching to an antenna like the new cars, but haven't found any online. Has anyone looked into this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Doug, I hope you are not referring to those ugly black things that are tilted back and you can see a wire spirling under the coating. Why don't they at least paint them body color? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ReattaFan1 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) Barney, you are exactly right. My father owned a 1949 Oldsmobile 98, a huge 4 door car with the Rocket V8 and 4 speed Hydramatic transmission. It was so plush inside that it reminded me of the inside of a casket . LOLIt had the hydraulic windows that you describe. There was a pump mounted under the hood (with what appeared to be a regular starter motor mounted to it) that would start running when the window switch was pressed to make the window go up and down. The reservoir for the pump was filled with brake fluid. He finally got rid of the car because the windows leaked so bad the car smelled like brake fluid all the time. And they say that was the good ole days! Wow that really is somthing they designed somthing like that back then. Surprised they used brake fluid instead of power steering fluid. Brake fluid eats everything up when it leaks. Nice old car, but man! $70k? Do you ever think the Reattas will ever be worth that much one day? Edited January 23, 2011 by ReattaFan1 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Ronnie,Looks stock to me. There are slight variations of these antennas that are used in Buicks and Cadillacs. Cable connection, ferel on the end, mounting brackets come to mind, but inside, pretty much the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Folks: the original telescopic masts were introed in the 1920s and were used to get low watt AM stations at significant distances (anyone remember 102" whips used with early CB radios ?) Bottom line, to get a low (250-500) watt station in a low frequency (540 to 1,700 khz), you needed a "long wire".Today most radio is in the 88-108 MHZ (88,000 - 108,000 khz) range for a metropolitan area you just need about a 6" antenna (when I use my radio I just extend it about 6" and unplug)Cell phones and sat radio (the nubs) operate in the Gigahertz range, another 100-1000 times shorter wavelength.Pontiac in 1969 intoduced the "disappearing antenna" in the new Grand Prix, wires embedded in the windshield and worked very well. Something similar to the wire used for the RKE.So for FM you need about 6" of antenna not shielded by a metal body but what I do not know id if the black encapsulation around the edge would block signals. Only one way to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Harness Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Doug, I hope you are not referring to those ugly black things that are tilted back and you can see a wire spirling under the coating. Why don't they at least paint them body color?There have been short black antennas on car roofs for a few years. Recently I've been seeing smaller ones that look more like fins. Some are black, but others match the color of the car. Here's a matching one on a 2011 Avalon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) You guys are confusing sat radio, GPS, and cell phone antennas, which as Padgett states, operate in the ghz region, with the broadcast stations. The broadcast FM band (88-108 mhz) has a wavelength of around 3 meters. A 1/4 wave monopole antenna would therefore be about 30 inches long. This is why the antennas on our Reattas are about this length. A 1/4 wave vertical antenna also provides a nice 75 ohm impedance, which matches the coax leading to the radio, and the input circuitry is tuned appropriately.The AM broadcast band is from 0.540 to 1.750 mhz - so 100x lower in frequency than the FM broadcast band. A 1/4 wave monopole at 1 mhz is therefore 100x taller. Over 250 feet! So the antenna on a car is already very short with respect to wavelength. Hmmm... How does this work?The answer is that as the frequency you are attempting to receive is moved away from the frequency the antenna naturally resonates at, its characteristic impedance shifts. The circuitry of the radio can be retuned to accommodate this. Ham radio operators often use a separate 'antenna tuner' box in their setups to handle wider ranges of signals from a single antenna. In the case of our Reattas, the radio is designed to handle the impedance shift - though there are some compromises involved.The windshield antenna that Padgett mentioned on his 1969 Pontiac is probably similar to the one that Buick and others were using in the early 1970s. It was a simple passive dipole antenna. A typical dipole is 1/2 wavelength long. So optimally it would be about 60 inches. A dipole is directional. You'd get good reception when driving towards the broadcast towers - wherever they are, and worse when the tower is to your side. AM reception wasn't great with this either. Though I remember as a teen in Illinois, tuning into the then-famous 'underground' KAAY radio station in Little Rock, Arkansas at night in our 1970 Electra with so-so results.The above are simple passive antennas. An alternative technique is to use an 'active' antenna. These are also electrically very short WRT wavelength - even on the FM broadcast band. What they do is move the tuning circuitry from the radio to the base of the antenna. (Technically, they will typically use a FET to create a preamplifier with a high input impedance, and a little bit of gain to make up for the reduced signal level.) These antennas can be made very small and can work fairly well. Active antenna design has come a long ways in the last 30 years, and many new cars use them. Disadvantage is that they are more expensive than a passive antenna, and pretty sensitive to placement. They are also sensitive to 'out of band' signals. That is, the preamp can be overloaded by signals other than the ones you want to receive. This makes the preamp design tricky.The Reatta was designed right at the cusp of when the car manufacturers were starting to use active antennas. For example, my 1986 944 has an embedded windshield antenna with a preamp at its base. The 1985 version of the same car had a power mast like our Reattas have. (In fact a common complaint from clueless folks using aftermarket radios in 944s is that they get no radio reception. Reason is they failed to hook up the preamp.) I would bet that if the Reatta had made it to a 2nd gen design, like to match the 1995-onwards Riviera, it would have had an embedded active antenna for the radio. Edited January 24, 2011 by wws944 Fix some rough calculations (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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