Mahoning63 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 The Erdmann & Rossi custom is very interesting, never saw it before. Thanks.The Europeans were quicker to adopt the close-coupled 3-box sedan. Brunn was a whisker away in 1938, all they needed to do was shorten the greenhouse and extend the decklid. Or Packard could have tooled such a car using the coupe's decklid.On the woodie, agree the rear door is tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Packard12Man Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I came across a couple of photos on the net of the Car of the Dome. In the Kimes book it shows the car in both 10th and 11th series configuration with a painted rad shell. The 3rd photo shows the car being delivered to the 1st owner Mrs. Flanagan with a chrome rad shell. In the photos below, it appears that the car has plated hood vent doors and belt molding. Photo's appear to be concurrent with the Century of Progress exposition. None of the people appear to be Mrs Flanagan. Any thoughts.There must be more photo's of this famous car out there. Not sure why this intrigues me, it must be my curious nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 Brian, is it possible that it is one of the other 2 34 Dietrich sedans with the same body, but without the fancier interior? Both still exist. Interesting photos though, fun to see period photos with people and the fashions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twin6 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Another Holbrook bodied coupe. This might be the 2nd series 8 that ended up in Australia, but the eight lug wheels are throwing me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Packard12Man Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Dave, boy oh boy - you must be sleepy today - it has to be the car of the dome as there are no side mounts. The other two of course have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 Sorry Brian, I am a bit under the weather. Actually I didn't know that the other two originally had sidemounts, so many cars have been switched to have them that even though they have them now, I couldn't say that they always did. Then again, I don't recall seeing a photo of the car of the dome with a chrome shell. I would guess that if someone at Packard thought it would look good with a chrome shell , it would be done, much like the change from 33 to 34 configuration, or that if that was a requirement of someone who wanted to buy they car, likewise it would get done. Hopefully someone knows the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted February 22, 2011 Author Share Posted February 22, 2011 A 35 Erdmann & Rossi cabriolet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packardbarry Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 When you enlarge the left picture of the woodie, the rear door sure looks small...I'd hate to have to get in and out of there on a regular basis....B:confused:Wonder if those rear side doors are for getting stuff in and out and there is NOT a rear seat.:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 There's definitely a rear seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 The photo of the rear three quarter shows what appears to be a second row seat although it is hard to be sure. Perhaps the designer felt that using a 4-door sedan as a basis would have made the front side windows too small and the rear's too large, and accepted the narrow rear door openings as a trade-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packardbarry Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 There's definitely a rear seat.Ur right. I should have opened my eyes before my mouth. Only goes to prove I'VE BEEN WRONG BEFORE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 A 35 Erdmann & Rossi cabrioletBeautiful from the rear wheels forward. Not sure what happened in back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Now am not sure the woodie did start off as a roadster. The convertible sedan has what appears to be the same door size. Does the sedan have the same door sizes as the convertible sedan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Good question. Let's put them together and shoot darts. It's nice that the cars were shot at exactly the same angles. Unfortunately, F-Stops may have been different so that we can't do a perfect overlay. However, I think we can see enough that it looks like a convertible sedan body with modifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Excellent camparo! And pretty conclusive. Where did the convertible sedan doors come from? Maybe one reason the woodie rear doors look particularly narrow is because the wood frame wrapping around the rear fender protrudes into what would normally be a part of a steel door's opening.Sorry Mahoning63. I edited and deleted while you were responding. This is as good as I can fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) In my opinion, it looks MUCH, much better without the fender skirts. Edited February 23, 2011 by West Peterson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 No prob West. And agree with Dave, great photo editing.... and thank goodness for modern computer graphics, it can really help add new insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Sometimes I can't stop. I think I do like the skirts if I shave the bling from them , delete the mirror from the sidemount, and the parking light.... and the white sidewall tires. I like it a lot better. Edited February 23, 2011 by West Peterson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 West - just a quick note... we've been having fun in the New Coachwork thread kicking around what-ifs. No holds barred. If you have any off-the-wall design ideas would love to see them. Goes without saying that this note applies to all! Now, back to the customs. Great thread.Paul West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Anyone know what this is? Hard to tell but doors appear to be longer than production. Website suggests a long wheelbase car too.The HUFF REPORT - Rare 1952 Packard Derham... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen_Dyneto Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 It does appear to be a bit elongated but I think it's just the perspective, the 1952 Derhams were done on standard Patricians - long wheelbase Packards did not come back on the scene until 1953. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Took a closer look at the pics at the link. That thing is sitting on a stretched wheelbase! Look at the pic of the rear seat... has an aux seat flipped down, a sideways job like the 30s/40s Formal Cars. Which means it wasn't a 149" car nor a 127", something in between. Was Packard feeding Henney such a frame in those years as a small or intermediate livery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 (edited) Definately a long wheelbase, maybe 138 - 140 inches? Other clues: the front seat is forward of the B-pillar, the rear door opening is much wider than standard, the sheetmetal on the rear door forward of the fender bulge is longer than standard. If Packard didn't make such a chassis, either Derham lengthened the 127" frame or shortened a livery long wheelbase frame. My guess is the latter because the front door lower looks very similar in length to a Henney door. Maybe Henney helped?? The rear door looks like someone took a standard door, cut it vertically and added a half foot. This car is of particular historical importance. Where in the world is it??? Edited February 23, 2011 by Mahoning63 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 I e-mailed the Huff Report, let's see if they know of the car's whereabouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twin6 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 A 443 with a Hibbard & Darrin body. Headlamps look like Marchals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Interesting Hibbard and Darrin. I'd like to see more views of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Kevin Huff said that someone bought the '52 car a few years ago and it went to Arizona. Was very rough and perhaps the new owner decided not to restore because it later went on eBay. Kevin has no idea what happened to it but hopes it was restored. I do to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Did a more careful check of the '52 junkyard limo images. Looks can indeed be deceiving. Am now almost certain the car sits on the 149" wheelbase rather than a shorter one or the longer 156" Henney wheelbase.The front door appears to be from the coupe, which is about 9.25" longer than the sedan. Henney also used this door (with a taller window frame) for their 156" vehicles. The clue is that the front seat is positioned forward of the B-pillar. Plus one must assume that Derham and/or Henney would not have bothered tearing up the front door.The rear door appears to be from a sedan with what must have been 12.75 inches added. Look at the rear wheel diameter (15 inches). Compare it to the length of the fender bulge on the rear door. Compare that to the rest of the rear door length. The chrome trim also appears to have been lifted from a sedan.Here are some images. Last one is my guess as to what this car really looked like, minus a leather roof. The jump seat does not face sideways as I had previously suggested, it faces forward. This car must have been ordered in late '52 as Kevin Huff had suggested at his site, and used the Executive sedan/limo's interior configuration married to Derham's exterior style. Edited February 24, 2011 by Mahoning63 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huffreport Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Kevin Huff said that someone bought the '52 car a few years ago and it went to Arizona. Was very rough and perhaps the new owner decided not to restore because it later went on eBay. Kevin has no idea what happened to it but hopes it was restored. I do to.I went back and checked my old emails, and it looks like it was sold around May, 2007 to Michael Yesensky, of Phoenix.I also may have some photos from the later eBay auction. I will try to do some digging and if I find them, I'll be sure to post them.HTH,Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Thanks Kevin, much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen_Dyneto Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 That would definately be the style and wheelbase but most likely not the car. The junkyard car has no jet louvers on the rear fenders nor any trace of them, and the chrome trim on the front door is taken from a '52 sedan/coupe and therefore does not extend the full length of the coupe front door. The only car your front door's full length chrome trim could have come from was the '53 Henney (where it sat lower and might have been wider) unless it was a custom piece. My conclusion is that either your photo is a second car of similar style or a photo alteration and someone forgot to shorten the front door trim when they stretched the front door... like I initially did on my photo alt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Since we are on the subject of Contour cars, just stumbled upon this interesting custom. Literature at the site suggests it was done around 1955. Photo: Gene Meeks-52Packard01.jpg | Gene Meeks 1952 Packard album | Rik Hoving | Custom Car Photo Archive | Fotki.com, photo and video sharing made easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Sorry Owen, just realized that your photo was a photo alt (that you did?) to show a different perspective on how the car might have looked. Nice job with it... or correct me if hole just got deeper... Edited February 24, 2011 by Mahoning63 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twin6 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 645 Dietrich sport phaeton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8096 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Is that silver 1929 645 still in Michigan? I knew the Ohio owner of it when it was restored 20 years ago. I was told it was one of the last restorations done by the Wendling brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen_Dyneto Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Mahoning63: No, to my knowledge the photo I posted is not an altered image, at least not by me. I forget just where I got the photo but the watermark in the lower right should be recognizeable to someone. The only information I recorded with the photo was that the VN was a standard 1952 Patrician VN, 2552-XXXX. When I first viewed it I saw the elongated doors (Henney?) and figured it was a post-sale modification, perhaps by Derham. Interesting, hope we uncover more about it (them?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twin6 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Is that silver 1929 645 still in Michigan? I knew the Ohio owner of it when it was restored 20 years ago. I was told it was one of the last restorations done by the Wendling brothers.No idea, sorry. I believe the photo I posted was taken in California, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a different car than the one you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 twin6 - beautiful cars both, thanks for posting. Would also love to see more of the 443 H & D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) Owen - the rear roof on the photo has no color depth or hint of oval backlight. Am probably wrong but from what little can be seen it appears to be an alteration. Wouldn't be surprised if this were the case, someone may have simply wanted to see how it would look. Have monkeyed with the long 4dr sedan (and Town Car) look for this platform too. Some folks prefer a 4 rather than 6 window style. Mr. Champion apparently was one of them. We've seen the production Exec sedan/limo with a full leather top and blanked in C-pillar. With its short Patrician doors the C-pillar ends up quite wide and rear door frames fully upright. The junkyard car has arguably too much door, too little C-pillar. Packard had long fielded a mid-wheelbase Formal Sedan, too bad they couldn't offer one in these lean years.EDIT: Owen, took a closer look at your photo. Can't find any clear evidence of cut/pasting. Must conclude the car is real. Edited February 25, 2011 by Mahoning63 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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