Owen_Dyneto Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Just a guess - Glaser of Dresden (Germany). See the picture at the top of page 210 in Hugo Pfau's "The Coachbuilt Packard"; could easily be the same car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Here's a "Custom by Packard" from 1930. It's a factory photo, and there's a monogram on the door, so I'm assuming it might have been done for a customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Looks like a 734 coupe, it even has the locks on the wheel rings. That car doesn't survive does it? It would be interesting to see a photo of it next to a 740 coupe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) Good eyes, Dave. Yup. a 734 coupe. Only the speedsters had the locking lock rings. I was thinking the exact same thing, I'd like to see a 740 coupe next to it. This coupe does not appear to be quite as low as the other Speedsters, which was one of their signature traits, and the cowl doesn't seem to be set back. Note how high the windshield is vs the 734 coupe-victoria that Nethercutt owns. Edited January 21, 2011 by West Peterson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Another 38 12 town car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 I love town cars without quarter windows and padded tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Very nice, I like them too. Wonder if the rear roof section and decklid were stock Packard or custom.I recall seeing in one of the older books at the Detroit library a photo of a custom done by the factory. It was a 12/14/15th series club sedan (can't remember which) on the 144" wheelbase where Packard simply lengthened the roof at the B-piller by 5" and used the 5" longer front door. Does anyone have pictures or know the whereabouts of this car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 The lwb 37 (1508) club sedan was in Chicagoland the last time I knew for sure and it may still be there. It was restored in dark blue and looks good. I think that someone on the east coast liked it so much that they built one like it - I'm not sure if it is done or not. It is interesting that Packard would build a car like that on order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoning63 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hmmm, makes one wonder what else was possible in those years using stock materials. One that comes to mind is a convertible sedan based on that LWB club sedan, maybe with a rear mount. Would have perhaps lent a more sporting silhouette. Another is a 2-door coupe or convertible on the 132" wheelbase. Yet another... a 4-door phaeton on the 132" wheelbase. Very sporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageride Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 This is a great thread. We all are learning a great deal from the discussion.I am also very interested in the factory built Town Cars. I am focused on the 12th Series cars though. Looking for description of survivors or remnants. Any leads would be appreciated, even period photos or reference to these automobiles would be appreciated. I am aware of the '35 12 Variety Magazine car that survives as well as the digitized Packard Motor Company photos.Vintageride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hmmm, I can think of several 36 1407/1408 town cars, but I can't recall seeing a 35. I pay some attention to 35s since I have a 1208 sedan. You don't see many 35 12s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen_Dyneto Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Dave, in my recently published work on the Packard body dash numbers (thief-proof numbers), there are several 1936 Twelve Dietrichs with 1935 body numbers and 1935 Dietrich numbers, but the cars were freshened to 1936 details and titled as 1936 cars. So the 1935 Twelves must have sold at lower rates than original expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) My favorite Darrins are the Hollywood cars - here is a 39 Super 8.I like all the Darrins. I was surprised at the relatively cheap price of the Clark Gable car last year. Perhaps because it was on the 120 chassis? Edited January 24, 2011 by alsancle (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Here is a picture of Ted Billings in front of a very nice custom bodied Packard.. This photo was taken in 1960. The caption on the back says "Ted standing in front of the prize winning Packard on morning of Grand Concours". Btw, the car was for sale at the show for $8500.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Oooo. That's Bob Bahre's all-original 1934 LeBaron phaeton. Those fender mirrors, by the way, are an official Packard accessory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen_Dyneto Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) West, I believe this is a better and more current (1999) view of the mirrors you spoke of. I was quite taken with them when I first saw them. They attach to the base of the headlight mounting "horn" that is part of the radiator-fender support. Really elegant, though I'll bet they are of dubious actual use on the road. Edited January 24, 2011 by Owen_Dyneto (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Looked better with the black tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Here is a custom-bodied Packard that appeared in a 1976 movie - IMCDb.org: 1939 Packard unknown in "Dracula père et fils, 1976" - I guess the body is European. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Looked better with the black tires.+1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Looked better with the black tires.+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 West, you would post a picture of a Packard coupe with wide white walls -- and double WWW no less? The picture looks like the tire might even have a seperate white stripe on the side, although that could be a shadow - kind of like the double band and tripple band www tires in the 60's and 70's.I think that is just the raised rub strip - but I really like the details in the sidewall design and how they extended the diamond pattern onto the side. I wish they would reproduce some great tires like these. This was undoubtedly a special order car, right down to the tires. Also the white wall isn't as wide as you see on some of the repro tires now. I have a very old Vogue 825 - 16, double white which probably was original equipment and the sidewalls are really elaborate as well as different front and back. I bet people would buy them if they were reproduced. It is really neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Here is a custom-bodied Packard that appeared in a 1976 movie - IMCDb.org: 1939 Packard unknown in "Dracula père et fils, 1976" - I guess the body is European.Great car! Perhaps a Franay body, I like the window frame treatment. Good spotting. The body works well on this chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) I like all the Darrins. I was surprised at the relatively cheap price of the Clark Gable car last year. Perhaps because it was on the 120 chassis?Impressive row of Darrins. I like the colors on your dad's car, particularly the top. Not everyone knows that you could get several different top colors from Packard, even back into the 30s. For some reason the 40s with the Darrin body look just a little better than the 41s to me. (and I like 41 Packards, have had 4 and still have 2) How much did the Gable car go for? It had a 37 steering wheel and 39 instruments, and didn't seem to be a high quality restoration. At least 2 other cars are claimed to be the Gable Darrin - not that O'Quinn would have been lead down the path to buying something that wasn't well researched as to its history... And this may well be the real Gable Darrin, but when they use the word "reportedly" rather than giving the documentation it makes you wonder. Either way, I still think it is a good looking car. I thought that prices were soft at Monterey. The one night I went to RM they were having trouble selling cars. Edited January 25, 2011 by Dave Mitchell (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Great photo of Ted with the 34 LeBaron phaeton. That could be another custom bodied Packard on the other side of it. $8500 isn't much compared to the millions it would bring today, but at the time you probably could have gotten a Model J for that price too or a Type 57 Bugatti. I think that even now this would bring more than all but the best Model Js though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Dave, in my recently published work on the Packard body dash numbers (thief-proof numbers), there are several 1936 Twelve Dietrichs with 1935 body numbers and 1935 Dietrich numbers, but the cars were freshened to 1936 details and titled as 1936 cars. So the 1935 Twelves must have sold at lower rates than original expectations.Where was your work on the numbers published? I must have missed it, but would like to read it.I think that 34 was a big sales year for 12s, and 35 is like 38, after 37 when they sold 1500 12s, it took a bite out of the next year's sales - there were only so many people who could afford a car in that price class. 38 was also a big recession year, not sure about 35. Packard buyers were most likely conservative, but if you look at Cad styling vs Packard the 34 Cad is much more modern - with front fenders that Packard didn't adopt until 38, so maybe it just took Packard buyers a couple more years to get used to the streamlined styling of the 35 - 37s (compared to the 34s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 I love town cars without quarter windows and padded tops.West, have you seen my Cad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) Dave, are you familiar with the '34 LeBaron in the Pray collection in CT? I think it is very simillar to the car pictured above. Great cars. More desirable than a V-12 Victoria? Seems to me that I read somewhere that Clark Gable may have had more than one Darrin, he was a car enthusiast but I cannot recall all the details of the article. Edited January 25, 2011 by Steve_Mack_CT Added line (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 West, have you seen my Cad?No, but I'm willing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Dave, are you familiar with the '34 LeBaron in the Pray collection in CT? I think it is very simillar to the car pictured above. Great cars. More desirable than a V-12 Victoria? .Oh gosh yes. The LeBaron phaeton is at the very, very top of the Packard heap, and near the top of any body's list of most desirable Classics. Not many Duesenbergs would out-price it... probably less than 5... if that many. The one in the Pray collection has a reproduction body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Mack_CT Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Interesting. I saw Pray's in November, really impressive car in person for sure even if a repro body. Are there others or is the Billing's car one of one, West? I believe some of the other V-12s would be competitive with most Duesenbergs in terms of price now, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen_Dyneto Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Dave Mitchell asks: Where was your work on the numbers published? I must have missed it, but would like to read it.Part I was published in The Packard Cormorant, No. 138 ( Spring 2010), and Park II in The Packard Cormorant, No. 140, Autumn 2010. Though I seem to, for the most part, have nearly run out of Packard owners willing to provide data, I'm still collecting what I can get and hope to soon have enough for an update. Most interesting of the latest data was on the 9th Series Dietrichs, and a new "lowest-known" number for the 6th series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) I don't know the LeBaron in the Pray collection. I think that there are 4 or 5 real phaetons - Bob Bahre, Bob Lee, Nethercutt collection, Harry Yeagy own ones that I can think of off hand. The Bahre car is original and the Nethercutt probably the newest restoration. There are more repros than originals I think.The Vee windhshield Dietrichs from 32 - 34 are in the Duesenberg price class - they often sell for over $1 million. One just sold for 1.76, and it isn't a new or perfect restoration. Edited January 25, 2011 by Dave Mitchell (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) Impressive row of Darrins. I like the colors on your dad's car, particularly the top. Not everyone knows that you could get several different top colors from Packard, even back into the 30s. For some reason the 40s with the Darrin body look just a little better than the 41s to me. (and I like 41 Packards, have had 4 and still have 2) How much did the Gable car go for? It had a 37 steering wheel and 39 instruments, and didn't seem to be a high quality restoration. At least 2 other cars are claimed to be the Gable Darrin - not that O'Quinn would have been lead down the path to buying something that wasn't well researched as to its history... And this may well be the real Gable Darrin, but when they use the word "reportedly" rather than giving the documentation it makes you wonder. Either way, I still think it is a good looking car. I thought that prices were soft at Monterey. The one night I went to RM they were having trouble selling cars.My dad's car has been that color since he bought it back in the late 50s. I argued for a black top but got out voted as usual. If it was up to me those whitewalls would be gone too. He has been saying for as long as I can remember (at least 30 years) that the Darrins are under appreciated in the market. The "Gable" car went for around 250k I believe. Putting the celebrity reference aside, a full custom with a very jazzy body like that seems pretty cheap at that price, even with a older restoration. Perhaps it was the lower HP chassis or Darrin's reputation on the early cars that holds back the price a bit. It could also be that for a custom body, there are a few of them as they all seemed to have survived somehow - plus a few extra On the 40/41 it would be interesting if someone more knowledgeable then me listed the differences. I like them both. I know that the 40 has more modifications as they tried to use more of the stock body on the 41/42. Does anyone know the exact differences? Edited January 25, 2011 by alsancle (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Oh gosh yes. The LeBaron phaeton is at the very, very top of the Packard heap, and near the top of any body's list of most desirable Classics. Not many Duesenbergs would out-price it... probably less than 5... if that many. The one in the Pray collection has a reproduction body.+1 on the Lebaron bodies being at the top of just about any car heap you want to make. There are not too many cars that would sell for more money. As Dave mentioned, the Dietrichs are gorgeous too. I'm still wondering what happened to Doc Clemens's unrestored V12 conv coupe. Before he died Doc was looking for around 800k and I thought he had sold it to Bob Bahre but that is not what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Dave,As I recall, you have a very impressive European bodied 12? Do you still have it? Pictures?A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 A.J. - it is a 36 1408 with a body by Norrmalm of Stockholm. I was sort of not putting pictures of my cars here, so it doesn't look like I am trying to promote myself. I just love the cars and really like customs, and there were some great ones on Packard chassis. If you email me, I will send you photos. packard12s@hotmail.comI think the black top would have been good too. Honestly the Darrins look best with the top down though. It would be nice to see it with blackwalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) On the 40/41 it would be interesting if someone more knowledgeable then me listed the differences. I like them both. I know that the 40 has more modifications as they tried to use more of the stock body on the 41/42. Does anyone know the exact differences?Huge differences. The '40 is made of wood and the '41 is all metal. If you use your car, you'd probably be more happy with the '41 for that reason alone. The '41's have rear-opening doors and headlights in the fenders. I, personally, prefer the looks of the '41, but it'd have to have fender skirts, no running boards and NO side mounts. Edited January 25, 2011 by West Peterson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 A.J. - it is a 36 1408 with a body by Norrmalm of Stockholm. I was sort of not putting pictures of my cars here, so it doesn't look like I am trying to promote myself. I just love the cars and really like customs, and there were some great ones on Packard chassis. If you email me, I will send you photos. packard12s@hotmail.comPost it here, Dave. I'm sure I speak for us all in wanting to see pictures of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Post it here, Dave. I'm sure I speak for us all in wanting to see pictures of it.I understand the hesitation as I sometimes feel the same way but I'm sure everyone would love to see it. It is a really cool body and very unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Mitchell Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 OK. Here are 3 photos taken in the 1950s. The second spare is not on and the leather top has been replaced, but you get the idea. The car was black with red leather and the radiator shell was originally chromed and is again now. The hood was lengthened about 8 inches. Norrmalm started with a chassis, with some special order items like wheels that were specially made 1 inch wider than standard. To give you an idea of the scale - the doors are 5 feet long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now