Help with a Barn Find

[wildcat70]

I found a 64 Electra and am in need of some help identifying it. This car is a 2dr, bucket seat car with all the toys inside. Under the hood is something called a super wildcat ?? Is this somethig rare and where do I look to get the data codes to know if the color/engine etc is correct?

Thanks for the help !!!

[RICK YOUNG]

OH MAN

You've come to right place.

Chime in everyone

[buick5563]

We would want info from the firewall plate and the door pillar plate. I think on this era car, the engine number is stamped into the front of the block on top of the block and just behind the thermostat housing.

Other questions would be:

Does it have air conditioning?

What color is it?

What kind of shape is it in...i.e. How is the paint, chrome, floors, trunk, etc.

I'm trying to remember, but is the Super Wildcat a dual carb car, or just a 425 engine.

[wildcat70]

The paint is actually very nice, no rust on the body or under, it may have been covered. It has AC/ power everything, bucket seats that look like leather.

While I have never seen an air cleaner all chrome with a "super wildcat" decal, it looks all original and yes it has dual carbs. Is this something rare?

[buick5563]

I'm not a huge fan of using the term "rare", but an Electra with a dual carb set up seems like it would fit into the rare category. Sounds like quite a find. If you could get in and go with just a tuneup and brake work, it sounds like a very nice survivor. Buy it.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Some Wildcat info borrowed from the Timeless Rides web site:

http://www.timelessrides.com/wiki/buick/wildcat

"When the Wildcat became it's own model in 1963, a convertible and four door option were added. The four door version outsold all other versions, even though Buick was trying to market the Wildcat as a performance vehicle. Part of the problem may have been the weight. Even with a large V8, acceleration was not great due to the weight being over 4100 pounds. Weight would increase to over 4,500 pounds by 1964, but there would be new engine choices, including a 340 horsepower V8 and a 360 horsepower V8. The engine choices were the same for 1965, but the styling changed drastically, taking after the LeSabre, but still using the Wildcat's unique labeling and grill. A threee speed column manual shift became standard in 1964, with a four speed manual or 3 speed automatic as options.

The Wildcat did not change much between 1965 and 1966, except for the "Gran Sport Performance Group" package. This package was labeled as the "A8/Y48" option on the order form. The base engine for this package was the 425 cid V8 (340 Horsepower), or you could order the big gun, a 360 horsepower 425 cid V8 with dual carburetors (named the Wildcat 465). All Wildcat 465 models earned the name "Super Wildcat", and had special badging indicating this. Initially this $381.01 engine upgrade option was dealer installed , but eventually it was done at the factory. Also included with the " Wildcat Gran Sport Performance Group" were a chrome plated air cleaner, cast aluminum rocker arm covers, a better suspension system, a posi-traction rear end, and whitewall tires. Of the 1244 Wildcat Gran Sport's built, only 22 are believed to have had the "Super Wildcat" option."

Edited December 8, 2010 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)

[JZRIV]

At first I thought this post was some kind of joke. Barn find, something called super wildcat, etc. Its called stuff dreams are made of. LOL

The Super Wildcat was a dual 4 barrel option offered on the 425 from the factory. 64 factory equipped cars will have a KX stamp on the engine block. This can be found just behind the coolant crossover right in front of the valley pan cover on the passenger side. At the other side of the block on same surface will be the last several digits of the body VIN number which you would check to see if its an original matching number engine.

KW was the 425 single 4 barrel and KT would be a 66 401.

The 2x4 option could also be purchased over the counter through the dealer and many were added like this to cars with either the 401 or 425 engine. "Factory" equipped super wildcat cars are quite rare vs cars having it added later.

Some of the 64 Rivs got the factory 2x4s (Super Wildcat) but I'm not sure if that was offered on the Electra or not. Hopefully someone here will know that for a fact.

Edited December 8, 2010 by JZRIV (see edit history)

[TG57Roadmaster]

Sweet find there! You'll find the Serial number on top of the cowl, underhood, on the driver's side. Next to that is the Data Plate with the codes you seek. Your VIN should start with an 8, denoting the 4800 Series, then K (for 1964), the third is a number for the assembly plant. The next six digits are the sequential build number.

Bear in mind that it's not like a modern VIN where a lot of data is encoded within. Look under the back seat cushion or behind the glovebox for the build sheet; that's where you'll find the options.

A bucket seat (yes, genuine leather) '64 225 coupe with dual quads (a $188 option for '64) and power everything is a dream car without question. Powerful, fast, elegant, sporty...there aren't enough adjectives to describe it; congrats on an incredible find.

(We have a nicely-optioned '64 Electra 225 Sedan, with A/C, power windows, six-way seat, and original AM/FM, awaiting its turn for a mild resto; wish it was one like you found!)

TG

Edited December 8, 2010 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[wildcat70]

The VIN is 8K102XXXX.

anyone know what the "1" stands for? As I understand it is the location where the car was built.

[TG57Roadmaster]

"1" is for Flint. Glad you found it.

TG

[wildcat70]

Ok, I found some additional information. The code on one side of the block is the same as the VIN number, passenger side block has a "KX" code.

I cannot see a data plate on the firewall.

[BUICK RACER]

Cool! KX is a 2x4 425! Saw one in 1985 in Bowling Green, KY!

What color is the car?

[wildcat70]

It is white with red leather interior. It has power everything and AC too.

Is it safe to say I found a cool rare one?

[BUICK RACER]

Got pictures sounds very interesting, where in Indiana are you? Is it in your garage yet?

[TG57Roadmaster]

Yes. you've found a rare cool one; the Buick white of the era is a rich, handsome hue.

Let me have first chance at it when you tire of owning that baby;

I'm very patient and can wait years, if need be.

I'm dead serious, too.

TG

[lrlforfun]

OK Wildcat70: A few things here. Yes, you found an interesting piece here and I think you more than know it. I wouldn't be surprised that even today somebody would want to get this car and harvest it's engine.

Sure, I can't mess with supply and demand and I can't topple high profile cars. What I can do is make everybody aware that even though this is a unique car, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE....don't forget all the other Sally Rand Buicks out there that deserve credit for being fun to own in any way that a person wants to own them. Mitch

[Guest my3buicks]

OK Wildcat70: A few things here. Yes, you found an interesting piece here and I think you more than know it. I wouldn't be surprised that even today somebody would want to get this car and harvest it's engine.

Sure, I can't mess with supply and demand and I can't topple high profile cars. What I can do is make everybody aware that even though this is a unique car, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE....don't forget all the other Sally Rand Buicks out there that deserve credit for being fun to own in any way that a person wants to own them. Mitch

WHAT??????:confused: Do you not follow the forums? Normal old Buicks are talked about all the time on this forum.

Edited December 9, 2010 by my3buicks (see edit history)

[Thriller]

Some Wildcat info borrowed from the Timeless Rides web site:

The Wildcat did not change much between 1965 and 1966, except for the "Gran Sport Performance Group" package. This package was labeled as the "A8/Y48" option on the order form. The base engine for this package was the 425 cid V8 (340 Horsepower), or you could order the big gun, a 360 horsepower 425 cid V8 with dual carburetors (named the Wildcat 465). All Wildcat 465 models earned the name "Super Wildcat", and had special badging indicating this. Initially this $381.01 engine upgrade option was dealer installed , but eventually it was done at the factory. Also included with the " Wildcat Gran Sport Performance Group" were a chrome plated air cleaner, cast aluminum rocker arm covers, a better suspension system, a posi-traction rear end, and whitewall tires. Of the 1244 Wildcat Gran Sport's built, only 22 are believed to have had the "Super Wildcat" option."

Just in case some aren't aware, the information contained above isn't entirely accurate. The 401 ci developed 445 ft-lbs of torque, so it was called the Wildcat 445. The 4-bbl 425 is the Wildcat 465. The dual quad 425, or Super Wildcat, was rated at 485 ft-lb if I remember correctly.

[Thriller]

By the way...drool.

Great find.

[wildcat70]

Thanks to you all for the great info. I have owned a Buick since college. My very first car was a 58 Buick, and even took my driver's test with her ! !!

I was not sure if what I found was cool, or real, or rare but I am thankful for car guys like you that help guys like me !!

I will be joining the Buick club by the end of the week as I want to be associated with profeesional and courteous people such as yourselves !!!

I will try to post a pic of my acquisition.....

she will need a name.....suggestions?

[Thriller]

she will need a name.....suggestions?

Now there's a dangerous question.

Off the top, an Electra could be Ella or Ellie. Or, similar to mine, "Carmen". Sometimes the colour lends itself to a name...Arctic White...hmm....

Characteristics of the car can come into play...such as a Super Wildcat car could be Tiger or Kitten (depending on the extreme you want to go to), or a character name like Simba or Clarence (Clarence the Cross-Eyed Lion was one of the few movies I saw in a theatre as a child).

Another thing I have done is based on the license plate assigned to the car. The Wildcat's start with ELY, so it became Ellie.

A name for a car is typically personal though, so I'm hopeful these suggestions merely get you thinking about the acquisition and perhaps gets your creative juices flowing.

Good one on joining the BCA.

For what it is worth, a book I have states 9045 of the 2 door coupes were built. The 401 was standard with both versions of the 425 available as options.

I can't wait to see the photos.

[WQ59B]

'64 Buick dual-quad coupe production is supposedly 366 units.

[cobravii]

Hey!! That's what I have!!!

Except mine is a convertible. It is black paint, back top, black leather interior with buckets.

My dad bought it new.

It also has the numbers matching 425 cid dual quad with the big chrome air cleaner and aluminium valve covers.

[JZRIV]

Ok, I found some additional information. The code on one side of the block is the same as the VIN number, passenger side block has a "KX" code.

I cannot see a data plate on the firewall.

Holy Crap - A barn find with a KX matching engine.

Merry Christmas a little early! Congratulations. Please post many pics outside, inside, under the hood etc.

[wildcat70]

Is that accurate? There were only 366 made? Wow !!!

The Covertible version must be super rare "Cobravii" !! Nice !!

All, I am now a member of BCA, just waiting on my memebr number !!

[cobravii]

WOW only 366 hardtops made with a dual quad???

Where does a person find that out? I'd love to know how many convertibles were made like mine.

[Larry Schramm]

With that much stuff on that car I would bet that there is a good chance it started its life as a Buick company car for an executive or engineering. COOL!!

[wildcat70]

was the 366 all Electras or just the hardtops?

Comfortably, what kind of value should I place on this car for insurance purposes?

[Guest brh]

Thanks to you all for the great info. I have owned a Buick since college. My very first car was a 58 Buick, and even took my driver's test with her ! !!

I was not sure if what I found was cool, or real, or rare but I am thankful for car guys like you that help guys like me !!

I will be joining the Buick club by the end of the week as I want to be associated with profeesional and courteous people such as yourselves !!!

I will try to post a pic of my acquisition.....

she will need a name.....suggestions?

Drool and drool again!! Awesome find. Don't have a real good suggestion for the car name but got some plate ideas..... MDQ 64 My Deuce and a quarter 1964. Or some such variation. Enjoy!!

[TG57Roadmaster]

Comfortably, what kind of value should I place on this car for insurance purposes?

W70,

Barn Find implies storage for some length of time, with many variations on the condition of storage itself.

It's impossible to throw out a number without knowing many more things about any car without visuals,

which is why insurance companies insist on photo provenance.

What actual condition is the car in? Photos would surely help. Are the paint and upholstery perfect,

okay, or just fair? I'd need to see a lot more before I could put up a number,

and I'm probably not alone in that.

Time for some Show, then some Tell.

Can't wait!

TG

[NTX5467]

CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR VERY INTERESTING "FIND"!!! WHEN YOU GET IT GENTLY CLEANED UP, TAKE PICTURES OF EVERYTHING. Note assembly paint "stamps" and "daubs", too, underhood and on the chassis. This would certainly be ONE car that you'd want to restore correctly AND preserve/reproduce as much of the original "marks" as possible! Hence, the gentle cleaning and photo documentation.

CONGRATS, again! Welcome aboard to the BCA, too!

Happy Holidays and Happy New Year 2011!

NTX5467

[wildcat70]

I will get some pictures this weekend.

[WQ59B]

was the 366 all Electras or just the hardtops

For years now, surfing various car forums, I have jotted down seemingly reliable production data for unknowns or special interest postwar American cars, esp GM. No, I cannot verify these figures personally, but sometimes you see a random number and other times there's knowledgable discussion and numerous figures. Better to take note in hopes of eventually seeing 'confirmation' rather than letting it slip away forever.

I didn't record the source, but it was 85% likely to have been either from here, or V8buick.com. Here's what I recorded for '64, reportedly from Buick Motor Division daily production records:

4-dr / 4-spds : 56

2-dr / 4-spds : 354

conv / 4-spds : 199

4-dr / dual quads : 94

2-dr / dual quads : 366

conv / dual quads : 178

dual quad / 4-spd coupes : 114

dual quad / 4-spd convts : 53

Obviously, there can be overlap, ie; SOME of the conv 4-spds are DQ/ some are 4bbl, SOME of the conv DQ cars are automatics, etc..

Now... the 4-spd was a factory option on the Special, Skylark, LeSabre & Wildcat... but the DQ was only optional on the Wildcat, Riv & Electra. The only overlap there is the Wildcat. I have another sourced figure that claimed 356 Wildcat 4-spd coupes were built, nice & close to '366' and potentially allowing for 10 LeSabre 4-spd coupes.

This LOOKS like a Wildcat-only list, IMO.

If all this still makes sense and 366 Wildcat DQ coupes were built, an Electra dual-quad coupe has to be a SMALL percentage of that. Taking the Electra's positioning into account... 10% of 366 (or less) originally built would not surprise me.

Great friggin' score, BTW.

[WQ59B]

The above numbers definitely exclude the Riviera, because verified production records via the ROA show 2122 '64 Rivs with the DQ/ Super Wildcat option (and 3808 for '65).

[TG57Roadmaster]

I went out to the '64 225 Sedan this morning to locate the Data Plate, found on the passenger side, underhood.

Look right in front of where the wiper arm attaches, in the drainage "valley" by the wiper squirter.

I did find the VIN on the front door pillar, so my earlier post was incorrect; sorry.

This is our '64, as found in '89 after a good washing. Black with a light green interior...

Larger

The old man we bought it (and several others) from had saved four '64's; two 4drht's

(the gold one had the Custom interior), a rough convertible, and this sedan.

I really love its "observation car," almost limo-like greenhouse.

TG

Edited December 10, 2010 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

At this point in time, the value would not be anywhere near what the ultimate value would be, probably between the "parts car" and "unrestored and used driver". Of couse, as work progresses, the value will increase. At this point in time, the car is what it is with the low-production option mix, but that might not really increase the value very much . . . until it's running and presentable, but it certainly would be valued higher than a "normal" Electra 225.

BUT, in "stated value" and "agreed value" collector car insurance, you can usually put whatever value on the car that you want to pay for, within reason (especially on the agreed value orientation, I suspect . . . but I might be wrong). Unfortunately, rarity does not always equate to higher "market" value, unless it's in a particular niche with a buyer from that particular niche who has money in hand.

Generally, you can start out lower in the valuation and then increase it incrementally as resussitation/restoration progresses . . . with ALL receipts of work performed in the file as documentation, plus pictures. As for "pictures", you can do all of the digital pictures you might like, but it also might be better to also use a film camera for ultimate documentation for insurance purposes (due to decreased capabililties to alter the pictures which are on film--just my gut suspicion).

If you look in some of the vintage vehicle price books (as "Old Cars Price Guide"), you'll noticed that some muscle cars have notations that "Increase value by 50% if . . . " (a certain engine option), so you might do similarly on your Buick in determining the value for insurance purposes. Then, you might add another 10-25% for good measure (so you won't have to keep upping the price each year due to normal price appreciation). Even so, "street value" is only what somebody might be willing to pay cash for it "right then and there".

Still . . . one heck of a find!!! Every so often, these things turn up in the most, seemingly, unlikely places with very low miles and in good original condition.

Congrats!

NTX5467

Edited December 11, 2010 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Redrob]

I would pick a masculine name for a big beautiful Buick like this one. I personally associate Electra 225s and Roadmasters with my grandpa Max, who was a regional salesman and bought a new big Buick every other year.

I'm not sure this one fits the name of 'Max' but that's where I'd go.

[NTX5467]

With the powertrain it has, something of a more masculine nature might be in order, but still something "classy" or sophisticated.

In the orientation of "Max" . . . what about "Maxy", which might also be "Maxie"? Of course, "Maxy" could be short for "Maximillion" and "Maxie" for "Maxine". As you get farther into this project, the real gender of the situation might better present itself, which can further define whatever nomenclature you might desire to attach to this special vehicle. Somewhere, out of the blue, it'll come to you and it'll be "right".

Happy Holidays!

NTX5467

[Redrob]

Oh, my grandpa was quite a sophisticated guy. As I said, he did drive a succession of Roadmasters and Electra 225s.

"Maxie" or "Big Max" might be good too.

What the heck, I haven't come up for a name for my Centurion yet, either.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Redrob (see edit history)

[wildcat70]

Ok, here is a pic of the interior

The engine number matches the body tag under the hood and in the door as well as the code KX on the block.