1932 Packard 902 Convertible Coupe

[Guest Elliemae]

We have a 1932 Packard 902 Convertible Coupe that we would like to bring out of the garage after 37 years. It is in mint condition and we would like to sell it, but are not sure of how to go about doing so. Does anyone know of someone willing to start the car for us? We live in San Jose, California. Also, what is the best venue to sell the car?

[West Peterson]

That depends on how quickly you want to sell. If you go the auction route, there are several auctions held in and around Phoenix every January. Also, closer to you, in August on the Monterey Peninsula, there are a couple of very elite auctions around the third weekend.

If you have photos and want to sell it privately, this is a good place to advertise it. You should know how much you want for it before placing an ad, though.

[Guest Elliemae]

Thanks for your help......how should we go about getting an appraisal if we do want to advertise it?

[West Peterson]

I'm partial to Classic Car Appraisal Service in Roswell, Georgia. Very knowledgeable about Packards, as well as most Classic cars. 770-993-5622

It would be very helpful to see pictures, though, and a requirement if you're trying to get an appraisal done long distance. One person's idea of "mint" condition may be entirely different from another's. If it's been sitting for 37 years, it would not be impossible for it to be in "mint" condition, but it would be unusual. When was it restored? By whom? Has it been stored in a climate-controlled garage or a museum? Has it been sitting up on blocks to reduce stress on suspension parts? With that kind of long-term storage, it would be expected that several thousands of dollars could be spent just to make it roadworthy again. Then there's the question of why has it been sitting for 37 years. Was the engine "tired" or in need of overhaul? These are all the types of questions you will be asked by both the appraiser and any potential buyer.

Edited September 24, 2010 by West Peterson (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Very cool car & desirable for sure. However, as West just pointed out, mint is not a word that can be associated with a car that has been stored for 37 years - unless it has been under constant care. There are many complex factors that fit into the valuation of a car like this. If it is an untouched original then the fact that it is shabby would not hurt at all. An shiny but not appropriate restoration could hurt the price. Post some pictures and you will get knowledgeable feedback.

[Guest Elliemae]

It is clear that we have very little knowledge regarding classic cars. I was told that it is a 1932 when in fact, it is a 1934. The car was in perfect running condition when it was put in the garage. I am not sure if it is on blocks or not....I cannot remember. I will be traveling there next week, so I will post some pictures. The last time I looked at it about a year ago, it looked beautiful. The car is in the garage because my parents have never thrown anything away, nor sold anything EVER! They have a gentleman from a Packard car show who is looking at it, but I think we should get an appraisal so they are not taken advantage of.

[alsancle]

The best way to make sure you don't give the car away is to get it out into the public by posting as many pictures as you can. A 34 is very desirable too. Btw, this is the opposite of the advice I give a seller when I'm the guy going to look :-).

[West Peterson]

It would also be a good idea to take note of the car's serial number, located under the hood on the driver's side cowl. There should be about a 4-inch square metal plate screwed to the top of the cowl, with stamped numbers. It might even have the proper space stamped as to which Packard dealer it was originally delivered.

It is very important to get the numbers, because there is a BIG difference in value based on it being a standard eight, super eight or twelve. I only say this because you initially described a standard eight 1932 car, and now you know it's a 1934. So, would you be assuming it's an 1101? Or is it possible it's an 1104 or 1107?

I could be mistaken as to the location of the serial plate. It might be on the passenger side, and on the face of the cowl rather than the top.

If you'd like to talk about it further, I'd also be willing to discuss over the phone. When you get a chance, e-mail some photos to me.

937-478-6613

EditorAACA@aaca.org

Edited September 28, 2010 by West Peterson (see edit history)

[Guest Elliemae]

Thanks West. I spoke to Classic Car Appraisal Service in Roswell this morning. I spoke to a very kind gentleman (I didn't get his name!) and he also gave me some great advice. I am going to get much more information next week and will send it to him. He told me all about Hershey............have fun!

[Guest Elliemae]

Below is the information I obtained when I visited the 1934 Packard last week in Northern Calilfornia. I'm not sure if this will help, but I now have the mechanic's name and location and I can ask him questions at any time. The mechanic is very experienced in antique cars and knew about this car and has been dying to drive it for at least 15 years. The car seems to be in pretty good condition, but there is some corrosion, etc. The leather is very soft and supple and the paint looks to be in good condition, but it is dusty so it's a little hard to tell.

Identification tag for the 8 cyl. Flathead '34 Coupe

Packard ID # 719 150 or (# 7I9 I50)

Delivered 10/18/1934

"Barly Anthony LA" underneath

[keiser31]

NICE!!

[alsancle]

Very nice car. I would think the Packard gurus on here could give you a pretty good idea on value.

[JD in KC]

Beautiful car. I believe the 'delivered to' is Earle C. Anthony, Los Angeles who was the premiere Packard dealer on the West Coast. I am not qualified to place any sort of value on the car other than to say it's definitely out of my league.

For those interested, here's a link to some basic information about the model: http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/modelinfo/viewmodel.php?model=654

[West Peterson]

Condition:

On a the accepted scale of 1-6, I'm going to call it class 3/4. Number one would be the best example in the world, #6 is a parts car. A regular non-car person would not recognize anything wrong with a class 3 car, but your car he could easily point out that the chrome needs replating, the engine compartment is not very pretty, the tops of the door sills is weathering, etc., which in my opinion makes the rating lean between 3 and 4. Also, maybe the photos are fooling me, but it doesn't look like it has leather upholstery. It looks to be vinyl.

Good:

It's a coupe-roadster, and you can't argue the desirability. Being a Standard Eight it is not as desirable as a Super Eight or Twelve, but it is still a desirable car. It appears to be a good solid car that has probably spent its whole life in California. The delivery dealer was "Earl C. Anthony," which adds some desirability. The dashboard appears to be very good as well.

Bad:

The color is not very desirable. If the upholstery is indeed vinyl, that would be a negative as well. You really couldn't do much to upgrade this car in condition without getting caught going from one thing to the next. Before you know it, you'd kick yourself for not just tearing it all the way down for a complete restoration. The chrome HAS to be replated. While you've mentioned that the engine ran well last time it ran, it is not uncommon for a good sounding engine to soon need a complete overhaul, and they aren't cheap. An astute buyer would buy this car with the idea that a rebuild would need to be done soon (it may not, but more than likely it will).

My opinion as to value:

$50,000 would be an honest offer, and $75,000 would be a home run. There was a Standard Eight phaeton at Hershey this year with an asking price of $125,000. It was a good solid step up in condition better than yours. Also, Hershey prices are always pie-in-the-sky. Phaetons and coupe-roadsters are very similar in value. At the $125,000 asking price, it should have been ready to win awards at any show. It also had vinyl upholstery, and was not a very good restoration. It was, however, a very presentable car that could be shown without embarrassment, or taken on tour.

I hope this is of help to you. I hope it doesn't sound as if I'm critisizing your car. I'm just trying to be fair in its evaluation so that you don't "give it away."

[alsancle]

I'm not a Packard guy, but as a general car guy I agree completely with West's assessment of the condition of the car as shown in the photos. I also agree with his general comments with regards to the color, vinyl, and standard 8 engine with respect to value. I know enough that the Super 8 and Twelve command a pretty good premium. As a general rule, the bigger the engine, the bigger the price. That said, still a pretty nice car and should generate plenty of interest if priced correctly.

[34PackardRoadsta]

Below are some observations that I have made on your car based on the photos. I also am not trying to be critical for the sake of being critical, but hoping this will help you develop a feel for the value of the car to a collector.

Things that I noticed, in addition to the above comments, that may effect final value:

• Wrong radio head and radio antenna. I can't see the radio itself.
  
• Incorrect steering wheel central hub. This will be hard to find.
  
• Incorrect shifter knob. No big deal.
  
• Incorrect coils. Possibly incorrect distributor.
  
• No oil filter. A big deal.
  
• Incorrect, or partial, air cleaner. Hard to find.
  
• Radiator shutters/sylphon thermostat not working
  
• Incorrect accelerator pedal
  
• Top looks wrong, and probably is. Very expensive.
  
• Rear of passenger compartment missing bulkhead,which is why you can see the top through the rumble seat opening. Also weird enclosure over the 'golf bag compartment'.
  
• No rumble seat foot rest
  
• Rumble seat release has to be incorrect (given the absence of the rear bulkhead).
  
• Fuel/vacuum pump is incorrect and electric. Also, mounted on firewall, which is a really bad idea. Also looks like the fuel line comes through the passenger compartment. Also a bad idea.
  
• Firewall was replaced at some point with what appears to be a sheet of stainless steel.
  

Again, just a list of what I can see in the photos.

Tom

[Restorer32]

I agree that the rumble bulkhead is entirely wrong but from what I can see of the top it appears to be correct. Catches above windshield are correct as is the partial side latch visible thru the rumble seat. If the top is wrong you're looking at a $5250 replacement cost. I know, I make them. Still...it wouldn't surprise me if the car sells for around 50K. Rear view mirror is wrong also.

[34PackardRoadsta]

I was basing the top being wrong on the partial view of the rear window visible through the rumble seat opening. The window itself may be correct, but the supporting fabric looks wrong. It could still be correct, as it is a little hard to see.

[Restorer32]

Oh, Ok, I was referring to the top assembly itself. The strange bulkhead could be a major problem requiring a good bit of interior wood work to correct. Still, I would make room in my garage for this car if I could afford it.

[Guest Silverghost]

I think everyone here has been right "on target" with their opinions based on the few photos we have really seen.

West Peterson has really nailed it down as far as the true facts.

Without seeing the car myself I would price it at $65 thousand !

You might try to put a "For Sale" advert on this website & also other Packard collector sites.

Hemmings Motor News is another great hobby publication that you might consider placing an advert in.

Be warned that all sorts of "Dealers" & speculators will be contacting you.

I suspect some have done so already !

Usually they like to buy such a car for only half of what it is really worth, or less, and then "Flip-it" for a fast re-sell.

Open Top convertble Packards like this are always in good demand so you should have no problem in selling it for a fair price!

A High-end Antique & Clasic car auction might be a fine idea to get the most money for this Packard...

BUT~

Beware of the auction house you choose.

Barrett~Jackson Auction in AZ is NOT the proper venue for this sort of car !

You may have seen one of their auctions on cable TV Speed Channel ?

They mostly cater to the musclecar & streetrod type of 1950s-and up cars !

There are few buyers at their auction for this sort of Packard !

I am not knocking them...

This is just a fact.

It's not what they specialize in selling !

If you use an auction house you may wish to place a "Reserve Price" on your car.

This is the minimum price you would be willing to sell the car for.

Some auctions will not take any consignments at a reserve price. I would walk away from them fast !

As everyone has stated...

We have not seen your parent's car first hand & close-up. It might be better or worse than your few photos show..

A running car is also much more attractive to a buyer; and thus far easier to sell.at a higher price.

Folks also don't like to buy a car that's pushed over the auction block !

You might consider spending a little money to get it up-and-running .

It mght pay off in the long run !

If you do decide to have a good mechanic get it running please make sure that he knows Packards and older autos and will not damage it !

Your parents have a nice Packard there.

Packards are always in high demand.

I know of many collecors who don't have really big $$$ who would love to own it at $65 thousand !

Properly restored this car would bring much more than the price suggested.

It does however need to have many things corrected !

Good Luck ! .

Keep us posted on your progress...

Edited October 13, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[Guest Elliemae]

Thank you all so much........ especially for your enthusiasm......it is contagious! I will pass this information to my relatives and I will definitely let you know what is happening. I really do believe that the seats are leather......I love that smell! I am going back in ten days....I will definitely check it out!

[Earl B.]

Could some of you that are much more mechanical than I am please tell me what these two things are? I can't figure it out.. I've never seen anything like them.. thanks, B

[34PackardRoadsta]

The disk like thing is a vacuum manifold. It allows for different accessories requiring different vacuum pressures to exist on the same system.

The other gizmo, I believe (or guess), is an electric fuel pump with a pressure tank for maintaining a constant pressure in the fuel system regardless of the volume required by the carburetor to maintain engine rpm.

[Earl B.]

Thanks Tom, I had NO idea about that disc, but the canister, I sort of thought it was a fuel pump, but, gee, it looks big enough for a 16 cylinder truck...if there ever was such a thing.. its just SOOO BIG looking.... again, thanks, B

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Agree this is a nice car and it could actually be mechanically sorted and enjoyed as is, another option for a buyer who may not be ready to make the improvments needed to bring it to show condition.

A major determinant in value would be the running condition, the pictures seem to suggest it has been moved from the garage to a shop somewhere - perhaps to get it running? If that is the case it is worth having someone with knowledge of older cars (ideally, Packards) to handle or at least consult on that task. If the engine is quiet, smooth, not smoking and starts fairly easily that will make a great impression.

You may consider taking it a step further and servicing all of the mechanical components so it is ready to enjoy (very possible depending on condition when stored, who parked it and what efforts they took at the time, etc.) that could make it a very appealling car to many buyers, but would require some investment, perhaps a few thousand dollars. That is nothing like the investment of a restoration though.

If nothing else you now know that while it is probably not an $80,000 car it is not a $30,000 car either.

You also mentioned a potential buyer. If you are able to reach an agreement with your potential buyer that is reasonable, or in the "ballpark" as discussed above you may want to consider that rather than hold out for a few more dollars if you are not too far apart. You can possibly save yourself and your family a lot of time and expense vs. consignment, servicing, etc. if he is willing to take the car as is. Just another consideration if you are entertaining any offers.

Wonderful car, by the way!

Edited October 14, 2010 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[tbirdman]

From what I seen, there's about a $50K price difference between a 32 Deluxe 8 and a standard 8 coupe roadster. That said some Packard guys won't even look at a standard eight even though it's very much a great car like the Deluxe 8 and Twin Six. Very nice condition 32 Deluxe 8 coupe roadsters go anywhere between $200K and $250K. Saw one sell in the spring for around $270K. That was a little high in my opinion. I think $50K is way too little. I think this car be closer to the $100K range. Please note there was no Super 8 for the 900 series. It was called the Deluxe 8.

[Guest Elliemae]

Thanks again for all of your feedback. Sorry for the confusion on the year of this Coupe, but I was given the wrong year. All the other information is correct so far. This website is so incredibly interesting.....I can't wait to go to a show!

[Restorer32]

All '32 thru '34 Convertible Coupe body shells and conv top assemblies are identical except for the '32 900 and the '33 1001 which share a slightly smaller body and top assembly.

[Restorer32]

And to shatter another myth the '32 900 engine is NOT identical to the 902. The 900 has an in-head thermostat and thus a head and cylinder section specific to the 900.

[West Peterson]

I think $50K is way too little. I think this car be closer to the $100K range.

Ken

Based on the car I saw at Hershey, one that was all sorted out and ready to go, $100 would be correct for a class 3+/2- car. While $50 may be low, all I was saying is that it would be an honest offer. At $75, with a strong possibility of engine job in front of you and a big chrome bill, you'd be upside down in no time. For the do-it-yourselfer, however, $50 would be an excellent buy and he might be safe at $75. He should be an expert at overhauling Packard engines, though.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

If you bought that car for $50-55K, serviced it for $5K and did nothing cosmetically you could enjoy for a long time (assuming sound even if somewhat tired engine - that is the big question here, no?) without getting hurt, and maybe make some improvements over the long haul. Not too bad for a Full Classic, open Packard experience? I would think that is a fair buy price if the owners don't want to invest in the car to make it more "sellable"?

Ellie Mae gets the car out of the garage and her family gets a fair sum. But I see she mentions wanting to go to a show, maybe she is having a change of heart??

[tbirdman]

Ken

Based on the car I saw at Hershey, one that was all sorted out and ready to go, $100 would be correct for a class 3+/2- car. While $50 may be low, all I was saying is that it would be an honest offer. At $75, with a strong possibility of engine job in front of you and a big chrome bill, you'd be upside down in no time. For the do-it-yourselfer, however, $50 would be an excellent buy and he might be safe at $75. He should be an expert at overhauling Packard engines, though.

West,

You are looking at what it would take so that you wouldn't be upside down if you did any restoration. Unfortunately that is not how cars are priced, though should be used in a buyers equation. $50-75K would be a steal and at these prices yes a buyer would get hurt, but I think this price should should be significantly above 75K. A 34 standard 8 in 2- condition was bought by a friend this summer for ~$160K.

A sedan is this condition would go for $25-30k so hard to fathom a coupe roadster for 50K especially restored prices are 3-4X the close cars.

[West Peterson]

A sedan is this condition would go for $25-30k so hard to fathom a coupe roadster for 50K especially restored prices are 3-4X the close cars.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'll assume you're talking about a four-window sedan, in Class 3/4 condition with an unknown engine, wrong upholstery and with visibly poor chrome on big ticket pieces (you can't just replate the grilleshell of a '34 Packard... it pretty much has to be rebuilt from the inside out because of the headlight brackets and the way in which they have corroded during the years). It is my opinion that its value would be $15,000. Multiply that by 3-4 times, and we come up with $45-60.

[tbirdman]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. I'll assume you're talking about a four-window sedan, in Class 3/4 condition with an unknown engine, wrong upholstery and with visibly poor chrome on big ticket pieces (you can't just replate the grilleshell of a '34 Packard... it pretty much has to be rebuilt from the inside out because of the headlight brackets and the way in which they have corroded during the years). It is my opinion that its value would be $15,000. Multiply that by 3-4 times, and we come up with $45-60.

West,

I think you should by it for $50K. A trip to Maaco and some Arkansas chrome, you'll be good to go;)

[Marty Roth]

Read what West has written, and take it to the bank.

I've been on the sidelines, reading the advice and comments on this post since the start, and have been reluctant to jump in until now.

I've spent the last 2-1/2 years upgrading, improving, driving, and now showing our 1930 Packard 733 7-passenger Phaeton. It was delivered in Paris, France - probably hidden away during WWII - maintained in a private collection of a Formula-1 driver (Abba Kogan), and re-imported 8 years ago. I know how expensive it is to go through even the Standard Eight engine; what really good chrome plating costs, wiring harness, six (6) tires-tubes-flaps, pin-striping, windshield glass and wind-wings, and all the other things that add substantially the the cost of enjoying the joy of ownership.

We were delighted to have our Packard recognized with a First Junior at Louisville, Senior at Moline, and First Preservation at Cheyenne. We were unable to show it at Hershey, but will continue toward additional Preservation recognition.

My point is that I believe that West is right on the money with his repair effort and price estimates and his advice. I don't mean to bash anyone else, but having been there myself - we started out just to make it a good dependable driver, and after using the Packard on a few tours, we decided to do a few improvements. We all know where that leads us. Knowing where to stop is a very imprecise thing. There are still areas which we may someday improve, but for now, we will continue to enjoy it, Tour it, and show it for Repeat Preservation. I have a pretty good idea what it would take to get it to Grand National level, and those decisions are "down the road" for now.

[tbirdman]

My point is selling price doesn't correlate with what it takes to rstore these cars

Car for sale price + restoration costs are a lot of times great than what the car is worth.

[Restorer32]

Depends on how you define "worth".

[West Peterson]

My point is selling price doesn't correlate with what it takes to rstore these cars

Car for sale price + restoration costs are a lot of times great than what the car is worth.

Ken

I am not basing its value by figuring what it's worth when finished, minus restoration cost. If I were to do that, she'd have to give the car away. $50,000 is an honest offer from an astute buyer. If someone were to pay $100,000 for it, it is my opinion they are NOT an astute buyer... an enthusiastic hobbyist, perhaps, but not an astute buyer.

I've already mentioned that a car at least one grade better than this could have been bought in the $100,000 range at Hershey this year. An astute buyer would buy a better example at the same price, no?

Nor am I saying she can't possibly sell the car for $100,000. If she can, wonderful. In a related story, someone overpaid for a Packard a couple of years ago at Hershey, and then he they tried selling the car at Hershey this year because he found and bought something else he wanted. No luck. He was asking about twice its value, which was probably close to what he paid for it.

There's nothing wrong with overpaying for the right car. (Did I steer you wrong on your car?) While this car is very desirable, it's not one in which I would want to overpay. If it were a Super Eight like your car, I'd be much more liberal in its value and in telling someone it's okay to overpay for it.

[Guest Silverghost]

I agree with West...

Also I will add to that...

If you are going to "Restore" a car~

Why not find the best and rarest example to restore ?

The initial cost of the project may be more on a Super 8, or better yet V 12 .

BUT...

With a Super 8 or V 12 you would have a far more rare and valuable car that will always be in very high demand.

You would be far likely to be "Upside Down" with the better power cars.

It's also far easier to work on an original unrestored car ~

You won't have to un-do what some other person has done in his "Restoration" un-correctly.

I have seen some crazy mods done to great cars during so called "Restorations"!

I always tell folks~

Buy the rarest & best restored or original example you can afford going in...

The cost of restoration will almost be the same for the rarer & more valuable car~

But you will have a rarer & far more valuable car when you are finished the restoration !

Edited October 17, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[tbirdman]

Ken

I am not basing its value by figuring what it's worth when finished, minus

There's nothing wrong with overpaying for the right car. (Did I steer you wrong on your car?) While this car is very desirable, it's not one in which I would want to overpay. If it were a Super Eight like your car, I'd be much more liberal in its value and in telling someone it's okay to overpay for it.

I am amazed at the price difference between a standard 8 and super 8. I'll compromise with 75K being a reasonable price though I'll reserve judgement until I see the car in person;)