BCA National Poll

[Guest BJM]

What reasons do you consider most in National Meet location decisions?

1. Distance (less then 200 miles)

2. Distance (less then 600 miles)

3. Quality of the meet location

4. Grass showfield or showfield setting

5. Attractions at host location (side trips/events)

6. 400 Point Judging

7. Driving your Buicks with other club members

8. Refreshing old Buick friendships

9. Seeing a large selection of Buicks for viewing/swap meet

10. Other (If other, please leave a note what)

[JohnD1956]

Too bad you can only vote for one of the choices. Also it's important to keep the statistics in mind when qualifying the information. We do not know what percentage of the membership is actually on this forum, and willing to vote. So the results are not reliable for the Club as a whole.

[Guest BJM]

John, I agree, just a snapshot.

[John_Maine]

For me, (1) it's distance and since I'm in a far eastern state, my range is limited. I went to Buffalo in 2001 which was 675 miles, a long 1 day trip. That's about as far as I'd go - at least until I retire and have more time AND have a better Buick than my current one. In fact, the Buick I have now, I would not take on such a long road trip. Danvers, however, is less than 200 miles and I'm confident I could make it there and back (2) the cars - I don't care if the show is on grass, pavement, concrete or whatever.

[stealthbob]

1. Driving your Buicks with other club members

2. Refreshing old Buick friendships

3. Seeing a large selection of Buicks for viewing/swap meet

4. Distance (less then 600 miles)

[Ted "Wildcat65" Nagel]

1. Driving your Buicks with other club members

2. Refreshing old Buick friendships

3. Seeing a large selection of Buicks for viewing/swap meet

4. Distance (less then 600 miles)

#3 - I like to see a bunch of Buicks! Stealth Bob nailed it here.

[NTX5467]

"Affordability" can be a determiner whether the meet is far or nearer. Cost to get there (whether driving or flying), cost to stay there, cost of meet registration and related expenses--in NO particular order as it's the total projected cost that really matters.

"400 Point Judging" (as an observer or participant) is always neat to do. Some do it for the recognition and others do it for the fun of it, plus visiting with spectators or owners of similar vehicles. Seeing the CARS is what it's about, for many, whether in the 400 Point group, the Modified group, or the other groups on display. Of course, seeing our friends is VERY NEAT, also.

"Side Trips/Attractions" are not important to me, but CAN be for others.

There was ONE thing, though . . . . "Swap Meet" . . . . . (as a separate item) which can be very important to many as a BCA National Meet is where some very rare and interesting Buick items usually show up. I suspect we all know people who come to national marque meets just to look for parts for their cars without much interest in any other aspect of the particular meet. Be that as it may.

Driving events/cruise-in activities to showcase the vehicles off of the show field . . . other than in the hotel parking lots where their owners are staying . . . can be some great entertainment and very enjoyable. For example, the parade in Flint in '88 was a fantastic situation . . . where the cars and their owners/drivers/passengers "were the stars".

Thanks for the poll!

NTX5467

Edited August 5, 2010 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

Thanks Willis, Ted and others.

I did this partly because we had never, if I recall, used the neat poll option the AACA added when they upgraded. The Reatta forum did a poll, may be still active.

Then, I might add, I am not a professional "pollster". When you set up a poll you get 10 options. I came up with 9 and the 9th is OTHER. I recognize my lack of set up skills but did the best I could.

We all probably have multiple reasons for going. I in fact came up with the reasons based on all the reasons I go. But knowing the main reasons is interesting. Affordability is one of the "co-leaders" now yet for me, the site is important.

I prefer a grassy park like setting for the show field, not an asphalt parking lot. Having it close to water and nice architecture, maybe in a well treed and natural area is neat.

For instance, Pebble Beach Concours is in an awesome location, right next to the Pacific Ocean. Using that as a back drop is important to me but it sounds like people just want to get there and be able to afford it - then the comraderie and fun will follow. But it's only 20+ respondants so we will see.

Interesting results so far though.

[stealthbob]

it sounds like people just want to get there and be able to afford it - then the comraderie and fun will follow.

Interesting results so far though.

Not surprising....

No matter what people say (myself included) the distance would always be the first consideration. In my opinion there are very few who use the meet as their trophy moment, but they do exist I believe, so the issues are skewed for those. No, I believe that for the most part the motives are altruistic and most are there for a chance to meet their friends again. All the while enjoying a common and shared value of all things automotive, namely their Buick's

The rest is just added candy....

As long as it is logistically ok and justifiable to the individual, I doubt it maters where a meet is or what is offered at the site.

[NTX5467]

Thanks for presenting the poll, Bryan!

When my work schedule changed, I considered going to Ames. As I didn't have anything to drive that far, "air" was the preferred method of travel. Not bad prices on airfare to KC, but then a drive to Ames (not unlike what I did when going to Kokomo or Flint, just farther). Choosing an airport closer to Ames, the prices went up significantly, even double. YIKES! For those with fewer miles to drive, that would not be an issue or a consideration, though, which I fully understand and respect.

Used to be that $100.00/night was the upper limit for host hotels, but that's been increased in more recent history. "Value" gets to be a greater consideration, even at the higher priced places. Just as with the meal prices for the awards banquet.

Some want tours of the local area, which CAN be very interesting and fun, but I'm more interested in the cars, typically, and people. A variable situation. Attending the various BCA and BOD meetings can be important, too. Seeing what's in the swap meet area is also important for myself and others--another variable situation.

Thanks, again, Bryan for doing the poll, while everything's still fresh in members' minds after this year's BCA National Meet. I'll be watching for further input as members find and participate in the poll.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Guest wildcat465]

I need to put it in my perpective.

1. Renewing many wonderful friendships made over the years.

1. Bringing a car I am proud of. (I have had cars judged, displayed, and driven)

1. Judging cars.

1. Looking at cars.

1. Driving my car to the show.

1. Checking out the swap meet.

1. Volunteering to help make the show more successful, if I can.

1. Meeting more Buick enthusiasts and making them new friends.

2. Going home tuckered out with a smile on my face.

As far as distance or affordabilty, if I can make it work that year, I will go.

I have enjoyed shows on grass, asphalt, concrete, and locally anyhow, in gravel.

Enjoying a National Meet is what you make it. I ignore the things I do not care for, and enthusiastically participate in the things I do like. But I do not knock the ones who enjoy the things that I do not. The diverse things available to BCA members at a National Meet is what makes them great.

There will never be the perfect show. Enjoy what you get.

[Mark Shaw]

The old adage "You can please some of the people some of the time." applies here.

A National Meet (just like any club) is what you make it. I have attended five BCA Nationa Meets.

I mostly enjoy the people, driving in the caravans to & from the meet & the AfterTours.

I always check out the swap meet (usually go back two or three times).

Although I do not participate in judged events, I do like to see all the cars on display. I prefer to see both judged and non-judged cars parked together.

The BOD meetings I have attended were way too long! The meetings held at the National Meet should be abbreviated to address only issues where the BOD seeks direct input from the members, and should be well planned to be 1-2 hrs.

The banquets I have attended, (I quit going) have also been way too long.... Recognize those who worked the meet, make announcements and go to awards. Flash photos of the winners with their cars and let them pick up their trophies on the way out. Make any entertainment portion of the banquet optional at the end and preferably at another venue (the chairs get awful hard and our members are getting less tolerant).

I recommend rotating the National Meet from East - Middle - West parts of the country every year and always near a major airport to accomodate those who cannot or will not drive what they consider to be too far.

My 2 cents... again.

[Redrob]

I know you can't make everyone happy all of the time. How could that be possible with a nationwide population of Buick enthusiasts? The national should continue to be exactly what it is now, moving around the country, and doing the best that it can. I attend the ones I can, and enjoy them when I do.

[Guest wildcat62]

Ha! NOW, I know what car you bought, Dave!

[Redrob]

We couldn't tell you on Saturday night, Kris, it wasn't a done deal yet!

[Thriller]

The BOD meetings I have attended were way too long! The meetings held at the National Meet should be abbreviated to address only issues where the BOD seeks direct input from the members, and should be well planned to be 1-2 hrs.

Just a quick response - if you don't want to attend a 5 hour meeting, don't attend the BoD meeting. The open meeting (normally Thursday evening) generally presents a summary of decisions from the BoD meeting. This year's was under an hour with nothing contentious. If I recall, Seattle conflicted with the XXX Root Beer place, so the open meeting was rushed / cut short.

Just an observation.

I initially went for the cars...now it is more about the people. Attendance is primarily about whether or not we can make it work and that factors in distance, dates, proximity to family / friends along the way, and proximity to things / places we'd like to see. The Charlotte 2012 dates are too early for us as a family as school won't be over...not that they do much in June, but the two eldest will potentially have exams. Danvers is almost too early for us in that respect. Early dates are the primary reason we didn't get to Plano a few years back.

[Guest buickapollo455]

nice show, but, not for a family , as was way to high in cost. the hotel was over board, the grounds cost too much should have been at the hotel. Hospitality room horribly handled nothing there, when was was horded by few. Grass a 8, as show as ok till voting then black top was used. Price of registration per member bad PR move by National board. Swappers charged 50 and then swap spaces has never been. I wont go back to a Nats again till they want families involved and price it family wise.

[NTX5467]

Observations, from my experiences . . .

Hotel costs are variable, depending upon their regional USA location. Sometimes, "wholesale" rates can be negotiated, but not always. "Bed Taxes" are variable, also, as are other similar "sales taxes" related to lodging.

A grass show field might be neat as a place to display vehicles, but it an also pose issues for those who might not be able to walk on uneven/soft surfaces. For an elderly person, using a walker (of any type) can be more difficult on soft/uneven ground/grass than on more solid asphalt/concrete. Grass, generally cooler; asphalt, generally hotter -- usually, a judgment call that might not please everyone.

Registration prices? Basic costs of the location and related services must be covered by the basic registration fees. These NEVER are the same from year to year--period. Many different marketing strategies . . . break even, cost +10%, etc., just as in retailing . . . hopefully, prices are negotiated such that basic costs are covered and not too high to motivate customers to not participate in the particular tour/event/activity. Banquet meal prices are HIGHLY variable, no matter what . . . as can be the venue the banquet takes place in.

Personally, and professionally, I feel that it would be nice IF the host chapter(s) could have consistent meet prices from year to year. For example: hotel rooms generally under $100.00/night, AFTER all taxes are paid; banquet meal prices at $30.00/person; tour prices at $20.00 each -- unfortunately this is NOT reality. Plus, not everybody might desire to stay at a "high value" lodging facility that's remote from "the action", but that's their priviledge. UNFORTUNATELY, many of the meet venues' charges can be "bought" by the "bed taxes" paid by meet attendees . . . the "bed-nights" number that many host chapters have to meet unless they want to pay extra money from their own resources . . . hence, why meet lodging reservations are usually handled via a particular phone number rather than via the Internet.

Having ALL meet activities at the host hotel might have worked in prior years, but not every hotel in every part of the nation can accomodate such a situation . . . available parking, how much parking space can be alloted to the meet attendees themselves, much less the swap meet, trailer parking, PLUS their normal amount of guests, NOR do many hotels have banquet space to meet BCA specs. Unless you go out and shop these things, you'll never realize how variable they can be, even in towns you'd think would have these capabilities in their lodging choices!

Perhaps, it might be good to define "family" in particular statistics rather than toss it around as a somewhat generic entity. Will it be the formerly-typical 2-spouse, 2.4 child, 1 pet entity or otherwise? 1-spouse, 4 child, 0 pet? Will "child" be elementary school age, high school age, or somewhere in-between? Will "pet" be dog, cat, or otherwise . . . and at what physical size? Include a non-BCA guest(s)?

Hospitality Room? Always a good thing to have, but it can also be a cash cow . . . which can be goverened (as to what can or cannot be there) by local or hotel directives/rules. The original orientation can be for this place to be well-furnished with actual food items that can be consumed "as a light meal", but as mentioned, this can have its pitfalls (people "eating meals" there rather than "snacks" to tide them over OR in competition to public food services nearby. Soft drinks and water are staples, with other things being additional options. The HR should be a place to sit and cool off for attendees/BCA members to take a break, at least, plus a comfortable place to meet others and chat--never a place for a "free meal" by any stretch of the imagination.

When our North TX chapter first started to plan for the first BCA National Meet we hosted, we sat down and everybody went through their collective knowledges of what worked "right" and what did not work so well at prior meets our members had attended--operationally AND financially. Then we put strategies in place to keep similar (the non-optimum things) things from happening at our proposed meet while accentuating "the good things". It seems that a "complementary beer/liquor bar" is always problematic! Other things you'd think you could trust people to accurately charge the host chapter for can end up being BIG financial drains, too. Having a smoooothly-running registration process was an observed highly variable situation, too (which is where Roy Faries' expertise originally was revealed)!

Many members have orientations of what is important to them, which this poll is seeking to somewhat identify and build upon for the future. Unless there is a concerted effort by potential host chapters to go out and "shop" their area for lodging, related banquet facilities, tours/activities, a "suitable" place for the actual meet activities to take place, AND related costs for each of these things . . . you'll never see "what's out there" for your area AND "at what ultimate cost" for the meet attendees. And, unfortunately, there is NO standardized pricing, other than in the particular market being investigated--some are more expensive than others, no matter what. Many of these investigations have to be made "on foot" rather than via emails or phone calls, too. Although a local (and motivated for "convention business") Convention and Visitors Bureau can be a huge help in getting many of the meet's details handled, this can be a highly variable situation, too.

There is a large data base from the convention industry as to what is available in particular markets, but with so many of these events being "high end" and usually taking place at a convention center (with an attached convention center hotel), the prices of that kind of event are probably much, much higher than the BCA or its members could tolerate. NOR might these venues be appropriate for a car event per se. For example, the Tarrant County Convention Center in Fort Worth now has an expanded convention facility (where they have the new car shows each year) with an attached hotel--it would make a great "one stop" facility for a completely "inside show" in the Texas summer . . . but I suspect it would not be well-attended due to lodging costs by themselves, not to mention what the registration costs would need to be to cover the use of the exposition facilities.

Personally, with all due respect, I'm glad BOD operatives were involved in planning/orchestrating the BCA meet this year. It's one thing to look at host chapter figures from the respective BCA National Meets and a completely different thing to be "intimately involved" in making it happen . . . AND seeing that it DOES happen as intended, with the end result being many meet attendees/participants who will say "I'm glad I came! Thanks for a great meet experience this year!" after it's all over. There might always be a few glitches, but seeking to minimized them via a continuous improvement orientation is always good.

Thanks to the BCA BOD operatives who picked-up the gauntlet and made this year's BCA National Meet happen . . . in the absence of any host chapter proposals!

Just some thoughts and observations . . .

NTX5467

Edited August 10, 2010 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Reatta Man]

It sounds as if running a national meet is a lot like running an airshow at a military base. Many bases now contract out the show planning and production, to a private vendor. Usually that vendor is associated with a national product, often beer.

Has anyone looked into producing a national meet using a vendor as the show producer/organizer?

[Guest buickapollo455]

Central US like the St Louis show draws the most cars, as is equal to most members east to west to come to the show, an east coast or west coast shows have extreem limits on who will come. Also tends to keep a smaller show. Remembering cost of show and limited number of members participating cuts the over all budget tight. Would love to see a show in Des Moines Ia, St Louis again, Spring field, Omaha, Kansas City, These would draw large numbers, and keep show to when kids are NOT in school as early August or late July. Families can come together. Hope local area clubs can see this a hope to ask to host a nats in their home towns in the middle USA.

[Guest BJM]

Central US like the St Louis show draws the most cars, as is equal to most members east to west to come to the showWould love to see a show in Spring field ...

After the Ames National I thought about locations for the next National. Keep in mind that I have NO authority and NO experience to move my thoughts forward.

BUT, my thinking was 2 locations that seem logical after the Massachusetts and NC Nationals, both excellent choices - would be Springfield, Missouri and Sundance area (Provo) Utah.

Springfield would be a nice compromise. It's basically on Route 66 and there are a lot of Nostalgic stops that can be made by incoming BCA'ers and post meet the BDE and Pre War Division.

A day trip could be arranged to Branson. There are plenty of motels but most importantly, it sits close to BCA centers in Texas, Illinois, Missouri and can be reached by the south, Oklahoma, Kansas and even the sub-Rockies (Colorado).

An initial contact to Springfield sources proved, as one can imagine, highly optimistic. They wanted to send me a packet right away. It would require a joint effort of the BCA National office, the local chapters of course. I don't see this idea going anywhere, but you are correct, Springfield Missouri is an excellent geographic location.

I thought of the greater Provo Utah area because we need a western meet that is not entirely located on the coast. I thought of Sundance, which is located outside Provo as a beautiful location which is going to be pricier then a Motel 6 lot.

I would gladly save for a year to afford a Sundance BCA National as a "signature" vacation. But that's just my opinion.

I thought of Utah because it could and should draw from Washington state, Oregon, California, Arizona and east to Colorado. Texas is a stretch but not out of the question.

It's a trip from anywhere else. I believe the natural beauty of that part of Utah would entice a few folks to make the trip, as many did for Washington and Colorado Springs.

BUT for those unwilling to drive their Buicks so far, Salt Lake City has a world class airport and my thought was - for those willing to fly in and attend, we could arrange for classic BUICKS to pick them up at the airport and take them to the host area.

Again, an initial contact to the Sundance and Provo folks (not BCA folks - tourism professionals) proved positive, especially given the lead time. Within hours I had a ton of stuff emailed to me.

If any one has a better idea then Springfield Missouri and Provo Utah I'd like to hear it. Not bragging, really, I would like to hear it because these are just two thoughts that came to mind working in the garage one day.

I have other "favorite" spots but when I thought about it, even I had to understand that there are compromises. Reno, Nevada? Las Vegas, NV? We just had a National in Colorado, New Mexico has Albuquerque and Santa Fe, I have not heard anybody say that Arizona is a great place to hold a National.

Provo is in the mountains so mean Jluy temps would be mitigated, should be dry all meet long. Lots of interstates in and out.

ROA is meeting in Branson next year. The Ozarks are a Natural. I thought - how about Arkansas? But Arkansas is hard to navigate. Scenic in the central and north, but hard to navigate.

Would love to see a National in TN and KY and KY has some choice options but not far enough "midwest" after having meets in NE and mid-south.

Edited October 28, 2010 by BJM (see edit history)

[Thriller]

Interesting thoughts Jake.

I'm not sure I've responded to this thread before...I know I can't take the poll because too many of the options apply to me...I'm not sure at this point what is most important.

As for locations, there are two main factors as I see them presently in my wine-addled state. First is proximity to members. Second is proximity to members to help put it all together. I'm sure Bill would attest that it is difficult if not impossible to plan something like a National meet from a distance without local help / knowledge. If nothing else, this year's meet showed that it doesn't need to be an extravagant tourist location to have a positive meet...I'm not putting Iowa down at all, but when one thinks of vacation destinations, I suspect most folks wouldn't have Iowa at the top of their list.

So, without looking at the roster to see if there are local members, nor taking chapter locations into consideration, something like Bozeman or Billings, MT could be interesting. Black Hills country would be nice, but is quite touristy in the first place...that does imply lots to do and plenty of assistance from tourism folks.

Personally, I am willing to go almost anywhere, so long as I can make it work. That will always be a year to year decision based on timing, location, and whether or not there are other things in the wind for us.

One thing I can nearly guarantee is that I could probably count on my hands the number of members who would be interested in a trip to Winnipeg...not the least of which is that you need a passport to get back into the USA. I set up a small tour here last year and am looking to do it again, but a National would be another thing altogether.

I think it is important that it rotate around geographically. That allows different members to make it, and that results in different Buicks being available to see at the event, which is exciting in and of itself.

Well, that's probably more blathering than anyone wants to read.....

[Guest BJM]

I have had BoD members tell me local chapter/region sign on and support is needed. It's a "non starter" without it. I think I am in agreement.

Yes, Montana would be awesome as I have lived there previously, it's a scenic wonderland. We could have great cruises. BUT, does the BCA even have a chapter there? And, I crossed it off because of the driving. In a state with only a few thousand people to begin with, it is surrounded by low populated states so that means a longer distance for people to drive, even if it were a western states accomodation meet (such as Provo and Seattle).

Derek, remember the poll is for the #1 reason for a National. I voted so long ago, I can't remember my choice but I like Nationals at this stage in my life because it represents a family vacation destination. It gives me a reason to go to New England or NC and gives us a "core" on which to expand a vacation if desired.

[stealthbob]

I voted so long ago, I can't remember my choice

Just look for the one choice that is in Italics

[Guest BJM]

Just look for the one choice that is in Italics

Thanks Bob. See it now.

[Guest BJM]

Poll is closed. Thanks to the 56 respondants.

It would appear we are interested in the location to the home and affordability. 40% of respondants said location to home was #1. There was nothing scientific about chossing 200 miles and 600 miles, I pulled it out of my hat.

But 200 miles represents about 3 1/2 hours driving and 600 miles is 8-10 hours. Beyong that stretches into maybe a 1 1/2 to 3 days driving.

I did want to know if this was important because future locations for Nationals, in my opinion, should take into account BCA member population centers and try to cater to them. With such as large country, it's not possible to get within 600 miles of most members.

But moving the National around, you could get population centers once every 4-5 years. Then it's an average. If I had to go 15 miles to my National, as I did this year, then I can budget accordingly next year when I need to go much further.

There were a lot of 5-6 votes for issues like 400 point judging and touring. This tells me these topics are relevant and need to continue to be incorporated into the National event.

Next is reconnecting with old Buick friends. This is a non scientific poll but to me I am picturing that most members want to get together witha large group of like minded folks and oogle over the old cars.

Doesn't seem to matter if it is in the parking lot of a host hotel vs. a grassy area with scenic vistas.

Things like tours and events are not as important as the cars, the proximity to home and affordability.

Edited December 4, 2010 by BJM (see edit history)

[jscheib]

Jake,

These are interesting results. However, with only 56 respondents out of around say 400 estimated attendence at a National , the 15% ratio is rather small to draw worthwhile conclusions, in my opinion. Maybe it would be good if there were some way to poll those at National Meets

[38Buick 80C]

Not trying to be Johnny rain cloud here cause I think BJM's idea is a good one but actually it's only 56 respondents out of 8100 BCA members and though I never took statistics I would venture to guess that the results do not represent statistically significance....otherwise put they are not necessarily an accurate representation of the true BCA member population. That being said they still interesting and good for discussion starting as we have seen.

[Guest BJM]

I agree. Statistically speaking, it's too small a sample to create an accurate picture of the total group.

I was surprised more folks did not vote.

[Thriller]

Further to the statistical significance, registered members of the forum do not necessarily form a representative sample of the membership of the BCA. Then again, attendees at National meets are not necessarily the best sample either - the question needs to be asked why those not in attendance are not in attendance.

This is valid as a straw poll though to gauge the reasons for attending or not attending. Thanks BJM for putting this together. As previously mentioned I do not think I participated in the poll - not because I don't think it is valid, it is just that I'm not sure I could pick out a single most important factor influencing attendance.

[NTX5467]

I concur that our "random sample population" might not be completely representative of the entire BCA-member population . . . BUT the results can still be used as a general guide of sorts, plus discussion points.

Statically, though, the seemingly small sample can yield valid information which can be projected for the total population. It would have been nice if the number of population respondents had been larger, but what was received is probably more representative than might be suspected. I'm not saying this as the results tend to mirror my observations over the years, but from what we learned about small samples of larger populations in college statistics. In statistical sampling, as in quality control checks, it's not necessary to check EVERY item produced to get an idea of what the reject rate might be for the particular production run.

Thanks, BJM, for initiating this poll and tabulating its results!

Happy Holidays!

NTX5467