My next project? 1921 Packard Coupe.

[oldcar]

Hi Chris

I am not familiar with the Stayfast cloth you mention. The cloth that I used to have made is extremely flexible the butyl layer is no more that two or three thousandths of an inch. Having said that it is 100% waterproof. The "top" on our Lagonda Rapier is now 32 years old, it was fitted in 1979, and still looks as good as the day it was fitted. It folds up into an flat "envelope" 10 inches X 30 inches for storage in the tool locker in the rear of the body in front of the petrol tank.

The Rapier has a slab tank much the same as a "T" type MG.

Re: the colour scheme for the Packard. the dark brown and biscuit has firmed up as favourite. The interior/seats etc will be biscuit hide with dark brown lino on the front floor and matching chocolate brown carpet in the rear etc.The same brown linoleum also goes onto the running boards.

Attached is a scan of the Linoleum. Once I have samples of hide, carpet and paint colours I will put together a "colour board" for you.

Bernie J.

Edited August 6, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Friartuck]

Bernie, and those following this thread,

Stayfast is the modern replacement convertible top mateial that is cloth based to be period corrrect for our restorations. It comes in multiple colors and combinations for both inside and outside layers to suit many restoration coors combos. It is the replacement for Haartz cloth which was the original convert top material of the 20-30's. Interesting that the Haartz family is still producing their cloth, though not sure why its considered given Stayfast's good performance for water proffing and durability. Bill Hirsch Automotive here in the States is the vendor I purchase Stayfast.

[West Peterson]

Sorry about the duplicated photographs I have tried to delete one without success.

Bj.

To delete a photo, go to "edit", "manage attachments", then scroll down to the bottom. It will give you the option of removing whatever photo you want.

[JV Puleo]

Stayfast is made by Haartz... Haartz Cloth has a twill weave, Stayfast has a square weave but otherwise it all appears to be the same thing.

[oldcar]

Hello West

Many thanks for your assistance.

Hello to you too J.V.

Welcome to ,my "Thread". Thank you for the info re the Haartz top material. I will have to look and see if I can find an example here is Aust. If you go to Haartz' web-site and look at Vintage car top materials the cloth that I am going to use on the Packard comes under their first heading 3 Ply cloth.

Bernie J.

Edited August 9, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

With something of a lull in proceedings I decided that it was an opportune time to look at the steering box. All I had in the way of information was the photocopied "Information" book that David McCredie had very kindly sent me. Apart from a small cross section illustration it devotes slightly less than a quarter of a page to the steering box.

While I have certainly overhauled many steering boxes in the past I had never even looked at a Packard one before. Being an early twenties car mine has the worm and split nut variety, something I had not encountered before. For those who have not delved into one of these boxes, all I can say is that they are full of tricks.

The worm which is attached to the bottom of the steering column has both Left and Right hand threads, superimposed one over the other. One half of the split nut has left hand thread while the other half is right hand thread, the nut being split vertically. As the steering wheel is turned one half of the nut rises while the other half falls. these two halves are attached to the rocker mechanism in the bottom half of the box. This acts to rotate the cross shaft which in turn moves the drop arm backwards and forwards moving the drag link and hence turning the front wheels. As I am sure all this is as clear as nut I have attached the diagram shown in the Information book. The main adjustment is carried out by screwing in or out the large threaded section on the bottom of the outer steering column. some further adjustment can be made by shims under the side plate carrying the outer bush for the cross shaft. By trial and error I have now re-assembled the box and have virtually no play at the steering wheel rim.

I am unsure, not having the opportunity to check but I believe the steering box was changed for the next series (II) Single Six

I trust that this has given all those with an enquiring mind something to think about. With all the internals of the box laid out on the bench, it certainly did for me...

I just cannot wait to get into setting up the lovely little bevel gears that the "Gas & Spark" levers in the centre of the steering wheel operate but first I have to replace a damaged section of one of the inner tubes. Otherwise referred to as the steering post, spark and throttle sector, anchor tube..

Bernie J.

Edited August 12, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

In case you are wondering. I once had a full head of hair, before I started to restore old motor cars.

Edited August 12, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

On the other end of the steering column. The steering wheel is cleaning up nicely. When we first bought the Packard the wood rim was falling apart with the glue completely dried out and the dovetailed segments coming adrift. The aluminium spokes badly weathered. These still require some final polishing. The rim is completely the original wood despite 40 plus years of total neglect. One segment had come away completely and was fortunately found amongst all the debris on what had been the floor

Bernie J

Edited August 12, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

Wow! Beautiful. Is there a before picture?

[Friartuck]

Bernie, The steering wheel on my 3rd series six is all wood. I like the Aluminum metal spoke version you have. It should polish up nicely or do you plan to do a dull finish. I had to peice mine back together and used a epoxy material available here in the states called Kwik Poly (kwikpolyllc.com). Kwik Poly is quite thin when mixed and wicks well into even the hardest of woods. You can also tint it with pigment to disguise/blend against the base wood color any material that may weep out the seams.

Does your six have the central Bujuir Lubricator system?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Of the wheel or the head, West??:D:D

Ben

[oldcar]

Hi Chris

I still have quite a bit of polishing to do so the steering wheel along with the quadrant and "gas & spark" levers will be included. To answer your question No my chassis just has individual grease points rather than the auto lubrication system. I don't know if any Series 1 cars were fitted with this. Perhaps one of the other Series 1 Single Six owners can enlighten us.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Hello West

I could only find the one "before" photograph of the steering wheel. Cropped out of a larger pic. This shows the location of the"missing piece of wood".

Bernie J.

Edited August 13, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[DavidMc]

Bernie, The Series One cars did not have the Bijur lubrication system which in my opinion is a good thing. I have it on my 1929 Roadster and spent a lot of time setting it up, making sure there were no leaks and that oil was flowing to each point. I also made sure that each point had the correct "dripper" but now after a few years I suspect that a few positions only are getting most if not all of the oil. If I were to do another car with a Bijur system I would use synthetic self lubricating bushes every where possible (such as spring bushes)and block off the lube system to those points.

Your restoration is progressing extremely well, how come my projects each take 10 to 15 years and yours seem to take the same amount in months?

David

[oldcar]

Thank you David

I suspected that was the case with the early series cars. My 1936 Lagonda LG45 had a self lubricating system that pumped hot engine oil out of the Sump to all sort of obscure and in-accessible places but mainly onto the carport floor. The car is long gone but I still have the reminders to look at every time I go out the front door.

Re the time thing. It is simple I do just the one car at a time and try to do something every day. Some things I do twice.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Re: Some things I do twice.

This simply means that as I grow older I have become more discerning, when I am dis-satisfifed with the finish achieved the first time, I re-work the particular item to achieve a better end product. These days "near enough is good enough" no longer applies.

As an example I am currently busy filling the Phillips heads of countersunk screws with bronze and cutting screwdriver slots in them before nickel plating. I minor thing and time consuming but important if the result is to bring them into "period".

Bernie J.

Edited August 13, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Guest SJMcKee]

Hi Bernie, just finished reading all 495 posts and the trials and tribulations of your Packard project. I'm new to the hobby, and after retiring last year the wife and I decided to take on a challenge of our own. A 1936 Chrysler Airstream, Pictures are posted under the Chrysler Airstream forum of this site. Additionally i just picked up a 47 Frazer Manhattan that the wife and i will be enjoying on the weekends. It was from an estate auction and 90% restored. It has been truly enjoying reading all the support, ideas, suggestions and help that this website offers as you progress thru your restoration. This will become a daily read, and learning tool for me. And looking forward to seeing the end result. Thank you. Steve

[oldcar]

THANK YOU Steve.

Just one word of warning; don't bite off more than you can chew. My creed has been for a long long time. One car at a time. If you try to spread your time too thinly nothing ever seems to get finished and you can become frustrated. I know that you are younger but the market is overflowing with unfinished projects. Having said that, for your next project try a 1920s car. Then the FUN will really start.

Bernie J.

[Guest SJMcKee]

Bernie, point well taken, that's why I got the Frazer, We can enjoy rally's as you do in the Lagonda LG45, do little improvements from time to time, and the 36 is the primary project.

Sorry, will stop cluttering the thread. Steve

[old car fan]

great you joined in,post pics of your cars and start your own ,we all love them.You really need to go back and check out Bernies last project.

[oldcar]

Quite some time ago somebody asked me about Packard sedan/coupe windscreen fittings (Photograph attached) at the time I was uncertain if I was going to need them myself. Having moved some way towards fabricating a windscreen frame I find that I will not be using them and they are now available.

I need to recover the cost of the nickel plating. Otherwise I will offer them for sale on the Packard section buy/sell.

Bernie J.

[DavidAU]

Hi Bernie,

I'm surprised to read that you modify cross head screws and then nickle plate them.

It must be cheaper and easier to buy slot head new ones already plated.

Classic Fastners in South Aust. carry some various sizes

Classic Fasteners - Fasteners for your vehicle restoration project.

and I recently bought quite a few nickle and chrome plated slotted, raised head screws at a very reasonable price from Screwsline in England

SCREWS LINE - Suppliers of woodscrews screws fixings building supplies and other multi-purpose materials to trade, education and the public at low prices

[oldcar]

Hi David

This could be a long and complicated reply.

Firstly Thank you for your interest and suggestion. But I do my restorations as a hobby added to this I consider them to be an art form. In the time that I could spend looking at my computer looking up web sites for screws I have finished the job and obtained a certain satisfaction from doing the job and seeing that it is well done. Then we come to the suppliers. I doubt that they would welcome an order for FOUR 3/16 screws of 1/2inch length and SIX of 1 inch. a total of ten screws! The postage and handling would by far exceed the value of the screws. These, provided that the seller agreed to send them, would take up to a week or ten days to reach me. Do I sit on my hands while waiting for them to arrive or just get on with the job. David McC asked how I manage to do my restorations in such short time in comparison to himself. Mainly because I love what I am doing and spend most of my daylight hours out in my garage working. I don't take long coffee breaks or stop work to chat with casual visitors and I do not watch mid-day movies on TV.

After working on Vintage and Classic cars for something more than 50 years I have a vast stock of nuts, bolts and screws but very often not quite the right one. For engine and chassis work I will more often than not buy new rather than use old and stretched bolts and I will not use an old nut on a new bolt.

All this probably makes me some kind of nut...

Bernie J.

Edited August 15, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Further to the above. 1.You cannot imagine how difficult it is to photograph a single slot head screw. 2. Yes we do eat a lot of yogurt. 3. Several gallons of nuts, washers, bolts & screws. And as they say in those dreadful TV commercials "But wait there is more......."

Bernie J.

Edited August 15, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[DavidMc]

Bernie,

I am compelled to respond to avoid giving the wrong impression. My comments about time taken to restore where a little"tongue in cheek".

I love restoring cars too in fact more so than driving them although we do both, the 10 to 15 year period that I spent on each of my 3 cars were all while working and performing all the other domestic duties that families entail. When I retired I had a project (1929 Packard Sedan basket case) that I doubted I would ever complete but working on it full time I finished it very quickly.

I am now trying to break this "addiction" and have resisted getting another project for now. My better half says it won't last!!

Maybe gardening is the way to go!!

David

[Landman]

Gardening will definitely take care of your time. Other than low funding, it is the main reason I haven't done much to my '34 Chevy this summer. Still building gates and fences .

[oldcar]

Without meaning to be offensive, some people may be out picking the daisies, while others smell the roses and maybe even one or two are mowing the lawn, others are hard at it working on their Antique Automobile of choice.

The two photographs below may seem to be a contradiction but in fact they show progress. The first was taken this morning at 10.00 am shortly after I arrived at Sleeping Classics workshop. The second was taken at 12.30pm just before I left to drive home for lunch. While this may not appear to some like progress that is exactly what it is. Dave, my painter, can start prepping the fenders and valances while the rest returns to Glendora Lane for me to lift the body off the chassis. Two things then need to happen. First I have to secure the panels and finish off some details on the underside of the body. Then my next task is to strip down the chassis frame so that it can go to be sand blasted before painting and re-assembly.

What did you do this morning?

Bernie J.

Edited August 16, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[KenHupp20]

Hi Bernie, I guess we think alike .

I had to make some brass threaded rivets a while back. Seeing the screws you made prompted me to post some pics. Didn't want to hijack your thread.

Great work !

Ken

[oldcar]

On the subject of SCREWS

Sometimes it is worth looking in those bins at your local hardware retailer's

These are self tappers but any pack of 100 slotted raised heads for $3.91 is worth picking up especially when the bin is labeled "Everything $2."

Bernie J

[oldcar]

A handful of the above will be OK to use in conjunction with cup washers to secure parts of the interior trim where they cannot be seen. The rest will go into another of those yogurt containers and onto the shelf perhaps never to be used. At 2 cents each it is not going to break the bank. At least they will be better than the dreaded Phillip's heads.

Bernie J.

Edited August 18, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello again

Following my policy of doing things as the opportunity arises I am in the process of restoring a Stewart Vacuum tank for the Packard. The original had long since departed before I bought the car. Now I am faced with the task of finding one or two of the correct brass fittings. In particular the 5/8 inch fitting for the gasoline inlet on the top of the tank. I have two tops slightly different in detail but neither have this particular item in place. Does anyone have a spare that I could purchase or can anyone suggest a suitable supplier.

Thank you.

Bernie J.

[West Peterson]

Bernie

I won't be able to get to the Museum for at least another week or so, but if you don't find one by that time, I'll take a look for you.

Edited August 20, 2011 by West Peterson
Bad spelling (see edit history)

[Earl B.]

Bernie, I found this on another thread. I think there's information here than can help you. I hope so, anyway...... Vacuum Tank Rebuilding - The Classic Preservation Coalition

The internet address below contains the complete 1927 fifteen page Stewart-Warner manual on their vacuum tank operation.

http://hudsonterraplane.com/tech/1927/StewartWarnerVacuumTank2-11-27.pdf

There are several past AACA forum discussions on vacuum tank operation, check out the following subject numbers 238950; 295881; 483587; 574007; 574184 for information.

Still working on the garage...B

Edited August 20, 2011 by Earl B. (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Thank you West and "B".

I think I have it all sorted using a home "groan" modification but more later, after the paint dries and I put it all back together. It will take two or three days for the paint to harden sufficiently. The chassis arrives back home on Monday PM so I will have to move some cars around.

Bernie J.

[DavidMc]

Bernie, Original die cast vac tank tops have been a problem for me in the past, hairline cracks and the brass inserts at the valve seats leaking causing loss of vacuum. I now always fit a new reproduction top available from Glen Smith in Brisbane . Welcome

[DavidMc]

Bernie, Don't know what happened with that last post, I tried to attach this we site:

Welcome

[oldcar]

Hi David

Thank you, your link works OK if you click on the Welcome. I have sent you a private e-mail.

Thank you too "B". I have down loaded your How to manual. I had down-loaded a similar one for the Dixie Flyer but it was easier to down load it again than to go and look for it amongst all my muddled files.

Bernie J.

Edited August 20, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

The last two or three days have been spent doing the mind numbing job of screwing the panels back onto the timber frame. I have just about finished the first box of 100 slotted countersunk head 3/4 inch screws fortunately I was able to buy a second box of 100 so will have sufficient to finish the job.

To break the monotony I spent yesterday going to buy the stainless mesh for the radiator stone guard and the brass channel section for the windscreen frame. The other job that is almost finished is sorting out a Vacuum tank. While this one is not perfect it will suffice until a correct one comes along.

[oldcar]

It seems such a shame today I am locked in at my computer finishing a report on last Sunday's VSCC "Rob Roy" Hill-climb for the Automobile magazine in the UK while outside it is a beautiful Spring day.

Previously I mentioned buying the mesh for the radiator stone guard. This comes in a roll 54 inches wide and a minimun purchase of $100 which worked out nicely. I now have a 4ft 6 inch square which should give me sufficient to cut out the shape of the radiator on the diagonal.

This brings me to the big question. Which is correct for Packard radiator stone guards. I have seen both. Either with the mesh on the square and diagonal. Personally I prefer on the diagonal but before I cut it I would like to know what is correct.

The mesh I have is, double crimp, stainless steel woven in 1.6mm (1/16 inch) wire with the spaces 11.2 mm (7/16 inch) across, which seemed to be about the most suitable readily available.

What do the experts think???

Edited August 26, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Friartuck]

Bernie, There is a 1926 orange packard Roadster that appeared on the front cover of the AACA magazine sometime in 1974. It has a nice stone guard design. Also attached is a 1924 Packard that recently debuted with a diagonal oriented guard. The other one is a 1929 I believe. These all seem to have a special design with an extra strand woven into the design. I know you're going to use what you purchased as is, so I would go on the diagonal.

Chris Wantuck