My next project? 1921 Packard Coupe.

[oldcar]

Finally I have the cylinder head in place and this brings me to the question of spark plug leads. I want to replace the existing black plastic covered leads with the correct cotton covered hi-tension cable. The question is what colour? Yellow with a colour trace or black? Normally I would use the yellow but looking at photographs of other peoples engines they appear to have used black. Does anyone know what would have been used originally? Also did the low tension wire from the distributor to the coil go through the conduit along with the hi-tension cables?

Bernie J.

Anything has to be an improvement on how it was when I first bought the car

[Ozstatman]

Bernie,

Pic of DavidMc's '22, leads appear to be black. Maybe David will comment if he can find a computer during or after the Euro Packard Meet

[oldcar]

Hi Mal

Your eyes must be tired after all that time you spent at the keyboard writing for the latest issue of the Packardian (Aust). Without your great input it would have been a very thin issue indeed.

If you zoom in on the leads on David's engine you will see that the lead to the Fuelizer has discoloured where it goes over the exhaust manifold but if you look where the coil lead leaves the conduit and before it enters the bulkhead you will see that they would have originally been yellow but have aged somewhat. Ditto at the top of the distributor cap. It is now some time since David put his 1921 back on the road.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Just a quick aside.

I am excited to be able to say goodbye to the Land Rover Discovery I really could never feel "at home" in it. In its stead I am pleased to welcome back an old friend. Our 1997 Peugeot 405 SRi. This has been in the family since 1998 and has just returned from an extended loan to one of our sons. It is a truly great car and I am looking forward to using it as my daily driver of choice again.

I don't know if you got this model Peugeot in the USA but this one is a 5 speed manual. Front wheel drive. It has typically French long legs and holds the road like a limpet. Super comfortable, air con and an electric (Glass) sunroof makes sunny day motoring a breeze.It has all the tricky bits of a Mi16 without the hassles.

Bernie J

[oldcar]

Hello all

I seem to have shocked you all into silence with the photographs of the Peugeot. Pity it really is a great "drivers" car but enough distractions for now!

Aaron is onto the last lap with the Packard body he tellsme that there is about two more weeks work for him to complete. All I am waiting for now for the engine is the distributor which is being checked over by my friendly local ignition man. I have just this morning bought the cotton covered hi-tension wire for the spark plug leads. I am still searching for the screw in plug for the timing case that disappeared mysteriously into some seldom visited corner of my workshop a couple of weeks ago.

One more thing to be added to the want list is a mesh stone guard for the radiator.

Bernie J.

[West Peterson]

I guess you'll want the stone guard because you love to drive your cars, but it is my opinion they look so much better without them.

[oldcar]

Hi West

My reasons for wanting a stone guard is two fold. First, Yes I do like to drive my cars. Then having been given a choice between a $5,500 re-core using a reproduction honeycomb with questionable cooling efficiency and a $3,500 job using a modern core with guaranteed ability to keep the engine cool in modern traffic conditions, I chose the latter. The one problem with the modern core is that it is susceptible to stone damage and there is a lot of it exposed. Of course from an appearance point of view it is quite obvious that it is a modern core and it would look slightly better covered with a mesh "stone-guard".

Even if the stone guard costs $2,000, and I hope that it doesn't, I believe that I will have a better outcome.

Bernie J.

Edited June 8, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello Again

Several people at various times have suggested that I contact Henry Yeska. Despite a number of efforts on my part I have been consistently unsuccessful. Can anyone please give me his contact details.

Surprisingly there are several H Yeskas living in PA none that I have tried seem to be the right one.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Some little time ago we were discussing tail lamps. I thought that you may like to see my original one purchased with the Packard. I have recently done a little work on it.

Bj.

Edited June 11, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[dictator27]

Bernie

Since no one else said anything about your Peugeot, I will. In the late 70's when the US started imposing legislated pollution control standards on any auto maker wishing to sell cars in the US, Citroen, Peugeot and Renault all chose to abandon the North American market. The last ones easily available here were the 404 and 504.

Terry

[oldcar]

Hi Terry

Welcome to my "post". That sounds like a great pity You missed out on some excellent cars but then as early as the 1950s with the advent of our our GM "Holden" and the post war growth of Ford Australia with the "Falcon" built by Ford at their Geelong plant, started in the early 1920s, Australia, imports of American cars virtually stopped so we missed out on all those too.

Instead we have always have driven English and European cars, many imported CKD and assembled in Aust. We bought the PUG in 1998 as an executive driven 12 months old car and it has been "in the family" ever since.

Bernie j.

Edited June 11, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

In addition to working on the Tail lamp I have done a bit more on the engine. I know that you all like photographs so I will share these with you.

Bernie j.

[oldcar]

Golly, those Packard gearboxes are heavy! Having got the box all lined up and the nuts all nicely tightened the next step was to put in the bolts that hold the clutch onto the flywheel.

For those who have never taken a gearbox off the back of an early Packard motor, you cannot remove the gearbox unless you undo these bolts first. Re-assembly is the reverse working through the inspection hole in the bell housing.

Anyway you all know what happened with the very last bolt! Yes, I dropped it down into the clutch pit so "You know what my first task for today is?" Release the clutch, remove the gearbox, find the loose bolt and start again.

Oh! to have the brains and strength, not to mention the steady hands of a twenty year old!

Bernie j.

[Ozstatman]

What about a light, a mirror and a magnet? Or is the bolt too far gone in the depths for such a fishing trip?

[oldcar]

Hi Mal

I could get the stud out OK. It was the spring washer that was the problem. No problem you say? I can never forget dropping a washer down the front timing chain case in a OHC Singer Nine. I was sure that it would just sit on the bottom of the oil pan. NO WAY!

The sound of that washer being belted around by the crank sounded like the whole engine was disintegrating....

That was probably 45 years ago and I still remember that sound and never want to hear the like again!

Bernie J

Edited June 13, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

I have just been looking through the Packard Information Book for 1927. It is amazing the changes/advances that were made. No Fuelizer, Twin points in the distributor, Watson Stabilisers in lieu of Gabriel snubbers, light switch on the steering wheel and four wheel brakes with three internal shoes at the rear to name a few. All in just four years, Automobile design/engineering was taking giant steps during the 1920s.This is why I find cars from the 20s & early 30s so interesting. I am sure that everyone has their own ideas on this subject, perhaps you may care to share yours????

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

I find it hard to believe that from the many people who look at this post there is not one with an opinion of their own.

Bernie J.

[dictator27]

In 1923 Studebaker said they would never equip their cars with "dangerous" four wheel brakes. Two years later not only did they offer four wheel brakes, they were available with power assist. I can tell you first hand it works VERY well - almost too well.

PS Studebaker continued to sell RHD OZ assembled cars until 1965.

Terry

[West Peterson]

I find it hard to believe that from the many people who look at this post there is not one with an opinion of their own.

Bernie J.

You've stated facts, Bernie. What kind of opinions are you looking for?

[oldcar]

Hi West

I was simply stating my own opinion. What I was hoping was that some others would have an opinion too, not necessarily the same as my own. e.g. What period of cars interests you most and why that particular period?

Perhaps I am wrong and this 'post' is not the correct "forum" for that question.

Bernie J

[pacerman]

Personally, I'm enjoying your progress reports and would not like to see your steady progress diluted by a lot of folks stating their opinions about what cars interest them. I think that discussion would be more appropriate on another forum. Joe

[Scotts_DG8]

Bernie,

You should know that I'm a committed follower of your efforts and look forward to your posts to see what you've accomplished or bit of trouble you might have run into and then how it gets solved. Some people might pull my chain saying that I have to many opinions but in reality I only share my opinion(s) if there is a reason for such.

An added thought, or is this really an opinion, is that it might just be what appears to be off kilter between the number of people viewing your thread and the few number of people posting to it. My unprofessional opinion is that there are a lot of people that have a interest in your project and check in often to see how things are progressing but haven't anything to add. How many people need to tell someone that they are doing a great job, the number of viewers says it all even without posting a comment.

So for my offical opinion, since you asked for one, I just love to watch you work and the projects you chose to tackle. I also am amazed with the results that you manage to obtain, just beautiful. I am one of those that checks in every day that you post and wait patiently if you happen not to. Always watching, Scott...

[West Peterson]

I have just been looking through the Packard Information Book for 1927. It is amazing the changes/advances that were made. No Fuelizer, Twin points in the distributor, Watson Stabilisers in lieu of Gabriel snubbers, light switch on the steering wheel and four wheel brakes with three internal shoes at the rear to name a few. All in just four years, Automobile design/engineering was taking giant steps during the 1920s.This is why I find cars from the 20s & early 30s so interesting. I am sure that everyone has their own ideas on this subject, perhaps you may care to share yours????

Bernie J.

I agree with Scott. I apologize, I didn't even read your last sentence/question. I think I was interrupted, as I have been all day (not bothered, mind you, just interrupted). Most of your statement is facts. I would argue, though, that the great leeps in styling and engineerng changes continued right up to the late 1930s, early 1940s. After that, only the introduction of electronics and the development of better plastics have made cars what they are today.

[MCHinson]

Bernie,

I was born in 1960. For some reason, I really am more interested in cars of the 20s and 30s. My first real antique car was a Model A Ford. I have owned a few different Antique cars but it seems that I always have to own a Model A Ford. I just can't seem to get rid of one without getting another. I keep thinking that I want to buy a Model T Ford, sort of as a contrast to the Model A. It is amazing how much change there was from the Model T to the Model A. Hopefully some day I will expand my collection to include a Buick or a Packard of the 30s, but that will have to be sometime in the future.

[TonyAus]

Bernie

If you want opinions on this subject I can add my two cents worth.

Automotive development over the years seems to have followed market demand rather than as a result of innovation for its own sake. It also seems to have moved in a number of distinct steps.

Historian James Flink has identified 1906 as the time when the automobile reached technical maturity, that is, it became a practical and reliable means of transport. One could argue that the majority cars made after that time followed a formula worked within market demands - poor roads meant relatively low speeds and motoring was only for a small minority of the population. While the ever lower pricing of the Model T Ford tended to expand the market, the design of that machine remained as one aimed at poor on non-existant road conditions.

One could further argue that World War I and the economic downturns which followed it only tended to perpetuate the general trend of automotive development. It was probably only from about 1924/5 that improved roads and a nearly saturated market meant that greater technical development was required to differentiate product in the mass market. This took a number of courses - the performance-related developments to which you refer, functional developments such as mass produced closed bodies and esthetics - the styling and colour aspects exploited by the major players such as General Motors. Within this environment the Model T died a natural death.

I am sure that I will be beaten to death by other members who can raise individual examples which go against these trends. However, I would stress that my observations are of general trends only. The automotive market was, is and always will be diverse in its developments and influences. Bernie, as you rightly observe, your Packard was not immune to the trends of the 1920s and it is those trends which, in my humble opinion, make the decade one of great automotive interest.

Now, get back to restoring that Packard!

Tony

[danhar1960]

I was born in 1960.

And it was a damn fine year to be born in....:rolleyes:

Danny

[oldcar]

Hi All

Danny, I was born in 1936 and that was a Vintage year.

As I said in my reply to West This was probably the wrong place on the forum for my question. I am grateful to you all for participating. I now know that there are some real people "out there". Have no fear, I am still working away on the Packard. We have just spent the last weekend driving 1,600kms interstate to visit one of our sons together with his wife and two delightful children who are living in Adelaide, capital city of South Australia. To-day I have finished welding up an angle iron "dolly" mounted on four industrial castors, so I can now move the engine & gearbox assembly un-assisted.

In preparation for getting the chassis & running gear back I am having a huge clean out so I will have room to shoe-horn it into my workspace. The alternative is to move the Lagonda into there and work on the chassis in the carport. Anyone want a 60 litre drum of used engine oil?

Bernie J.

Edited June 21, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Bill Boudway]

Hi Bernie,

Thanks for the offer!

We need the used motor oil here in Canandaigua, NY, USA.

My BMW mechanic has a waste oil furnace for heating.

Can you bring it along on your next trip?

Best always,

Bill B.

PS: Perhaps Coburn could use this. He's located in the cold north region.

[oldcar]

Hi Bill

With all the local commercial airports closed due the the threat of volcanic dust blown from Sth America, now visiting us for the second time, I don't think I will be flying anywhere right now. The above is one reason we chose to drive to Adelaide. Much of it through boring semi desert country. Thankfully the powers that be have lifted the speed limit from 100 to 110 kph. (60 to 65 mph) so it is only an eight hour drive.

Bernie J.

Back to work........

[oldcar]

At last the distributor is almost finished and all I am waiting on now is some "duck-bill" ends for the plug leads. Note the modern replacement condenser.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

On the subject of that replacement condenser in the distributor. I have gone back through some of my earliest photographs of the engine. The original condenser had a major short circuit and was deemed un repairable. I think that my solution to the problem is better than the interim "conversion" on the distributor when the car was purchased. See close up photo of pickaback condenser held in place by a radiator hose clip. I think that we have made a little progress....

Bernie J.

Edited June 24, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

I agree. Wrong type of hose clip for that age of car.

[Friartuck]

Bernie, on the high tension leads into the cap it looks like little bands crimped around the individual leads. The bands look like those if you were tracking a bird or wild animal. I don't remember seeing them on any other car.

[oldcar]

Hi Friartuck

I guess that could be right unless you had been looking over my shoulder. I make them out of 1.2mm alloy sheet with a pair of snips and six number punches. I will try and get a good photo for you.

Bernie J.

[TexRiv_63]

Bernie, on the high tension leads into the cap it looks like little bands crimped around the individual leads. The bands look like those if you were tracking a bird or wild animal. I don't remember seeing them on any other car.

My 32 Cadillac had those at both ends of the cables, I assume they were original but not certain, I polished and reused on the new cables.

[oldcar]

The idea was not really new to me. I too had seen them before on other cars. They certainly simplify tracking which lead goes where when all the leads disappear into and emerge from a conduit as on the Packard engine. For ageing people like me with short term memory problems a tag located somewhere, either on the engine or bulkhead, displaying the firing order can also be of help and saves frequent references to "the book".

Oh! to be young and clever!

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Talk about being young and clever, I just wish I was young! I am having a huge garage clean out. Getting ready to start dismantling the Packard Chassis. There is 40 years of accumulated junk, I have about a ton and a half of scrap cast iron and steel for the scrap man to collect next week. What do you do with about 20 gallons of assorted nuts and bolts. I have this bad habit of replacing any used nuts and bolts, especially all the ones with rounded heads or damaged threads, with new ones and throwing the old ones into a bucket. This is then emptied into a 20 gallon (60 Litre) drum with the top cut out. One problem is that I simply cannot lift it. Last time I had one of these clear outs I gave a similar drum to a young friend who was playing about doing junk sculpture. Problem is that I would not know where to contact him again and forty years later he is probably a Company Director or something terribly smart.

Right now my back, hips and shoulders are telling me that I have done enough lifting for today.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Just some of the 40+ years collection of junk! If you see anything that you want/need it is too late. I have been trying to give away some of this stuff for years. No one wants it! I am keeping the spare Herschell-Spillman crankshaft and one conrod and piston. Don't ask me why....

Bernie J

Edited June 27, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Bill Boudway]

Hi Bernie,

I hope that you didn't trash the Gabriel Snubber tool!!

Regards,

Bill B.

[Guest cben09]

Hi All,,,I survived the winter,,the stove has been out for 3 weeks,,this morning was 55f and i still have flannel shirt on,,Had the Stanley racer out to test water pump capacity [2,3gpm]] thinking of another hill of course

Found more small Packard parts,,, Bernie your dash lamp is still safe]],,Will relist the 1924--148 ,,8cyl parts car AND the 443 axles /ww wheels[1928],,and extra '26 axle,,

in the cellar I found 8 Westinghouse shocks,,they are heavy so I'll leave em there for now,,Comp'tr took a hollidaye,,so I havent been on much,,glad to hear of all the progress,,,it'll take me a while to catch up on news,,BillB,,e/m me w/news on the sic-twin,,,smiles,,Ben