Dealer advertising in club magazines

[trimacar]

OK, I guess this is just a general comment about the hobby, no criticism of dealers intended.

Used to be, when you received a club magazine, there were ads in the back from fellow hobbyists, and a variety of cars were for sale at what one would consider fair, hobby, prices.

Now, I open up many of the national club publications, and will see three or four individual ads, and the rest are one, two, maybe three dealers. I know these guys are just making a living, and many of them love the cars too, but they've bought the cars from individuals at what I'm calling hobby price, and now the price is twice that.

I know it's just the way the world is, but was wondering if anyone else notices this trend. I personally think it hurts the hobby, as now that Model F Buick that an individual might sell for X price to someone who would enjoy it, now can't afford it at Y price, and will never know the joy of such a car.

OK, off my soapbox.

[stealthbob]

If I may offer a newbie view to that...

I always wanted a "Classic" car. Well when the time came when I was ready to start my "Classic" car adventure I decided to learn about he "Classic" car game. It didn't take me long to see that I was not looking for a "Classic" car but just some old 50's car

You see its all what you want to see....

I found a great project car (My Dads first car) for cheap...one that I will be proud to restore and enjoy. Yea there were lots of adds that wanted to sell me someting all done but I wanted it all..I wanted a story and history that included me in it.

It always falls on the buyer to learn what one is buying and let the market follow what is a good price. In my opinion you will always have those who want to make a buck off their find/restoration but there will always be twice as much of the opposite...the perfect project car. Don't let those other over priced cars get you down but embrace the fact that for every overpriced example there are 2 fold the opportunity car...the ones that we bring into our family and dote over.

The hobby as I see it is alive and well with true passionate car lovers sprinkled with some "dealers"...to me thats not really a bad thing at all.

[R W Burgess]

David, I share a lot of regional newsletters, score a bunch too. I notice that the best deals are in these regional newsletters, where ever they may be from. That and the fact that joining regional clubs gives you the opportunity to know about a car that is getting ready to be offered for sale. That's where I got my best deals in any case.

Wayne

[Dave Mellor NJ]

I don't think this is limited to just "club" magazines,it's everywhere,including our own "antique Automobile.For years I have seen dealer ads where,if they list the prices at all,they are at such unjustifiable heights you can't believe they seriously expect a buyer will materialize. What gets me is the same overprices month after month after month. In the ads in Hemmings or Old cars you find maybe one hobbyist listing followed by about 9 "wanted" ads in every car's for sale section,all promising top prices paid.Try calling them,get a big surprise. It's as bad or worse on ebay. they place the same ad over and over,never reaching reserve.

[trimacar]

Well, when I said "club magazine," I was meaning the national clubs that are initials, usually ending in the vowel "A" for America.

And yes, Wayne, the best deals are definitely at a local level, or word of mouth. The best car I own, I bought on a tour with the previous owner, and never realized it might be bought until one of the stops when we had a conversation about it. From a hobby perspective, this networking will definitely find the best deals on cars.

[Restorer32]

Would these "club magazines" be able to afford the costs of printing etc without these big advertisers? Just a question.

[TexRiv_63]

For years I have seen dealer ads where,if they list the prices at all,they are at such unjustifiable heights you can't believe they seriously expect a buyer will materialize. What gets me is the same overprices month after month after month. In the ads in Hemmings or Old cars you find maybe one hobbyist listing followed by about 9 "wanted" ads in every car's for sale section,all promising top prices paid.Try calling them,get a big surprise. It's as bad or worse on ebay. they place the same ad over and over,never reaching reserve.

I agree with Dave. It seems like they never sell anything, just keep advertising at ridiculous prices, you wonder how they pay the rent! I assume they must be selling something, maybe lesser / newer models that you never see. Unfortunately the ridiculous prices have extended to parts for Classics as well, sure makes it hard to get spares.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Would these "club magazines" be able to afford the costs of printing etc without these big advertisers? Just a question.

Amen! And what would be the cost of dues if not for some of them. I have no ox to gore in this issue as we generally do not get these type of ads. I am not sure why it was stated we do. Our ads in classified are for members not for commercial enterprises.

Personally, I have always maintained that if you really love a car there is no such thing as paying too much for it if you can afford it. We all make our decisions for different reasons. No one forces anyone to make a purchase. If the dealer does not make a profit he goes out of business. The marketplace generally takes care of itself.

Recently a car sold for several million dollars, however, it was purchased several years ago for twice the money and THEN professionally restored. Several people gasped at the current purchase price but the new buyer bought it for .50 on the dollar! Some people in the rarefied air of being able to own one of these prestigious cars feel he got a bargain. Plus, the new owner loves the car and will enjoy it. It is all a matter of prospective.

David, I understand what you are getting at and we all wish we could turn back the hands of time to find more of us being able to afford cars we want. Just not reality. Look at the prices of homes today or anything else for that matter. The option you always have is just to turn the page!

[trimacar]

Yes, Steve, I guess my comments can be construed as wishful thinking to go back in time, but of course, time travel backwards isn't possible (whiel time travel forwards seems to be happening faster and faster as I age).

CCCA for sure has almost nothing but dealer ads. I'd like to see a policy that club publications only take member, non-commercial, ads for vehicles, but also understand the econonics of advertising revenue. If the cost for a dealer to advertise in a hobby publication was in proportion to their markup (I know I'm dreaming) then I bet our dues would decrease in some clubs!

[West Peterson]

I don't think this is limited to just "club" magazines,it's everywhere,including our own "antique Automobile.

Dave

I have to disagree with you... well, more than a disagreement. This is just NOT so. Classified ads in Antique Automobile are strictly personal ads for club members. Dealers are not allowed (sometimes one or two sneak in, because I am unaware that they are a dealer). The ONLY way for a dealer to advertise is through a display ad.

[Guest billybird]

It's the world we live in-yes. Advertisers help fund publications-yes. There are many things that could be said concerning this, but when the smoke clears, I really see only two types of people in the car hobby. Those who love the vehicles; and those who love the money. There are many of both, but hopefully; many more of the first variety.

[Paul Dobbin]

Dave,

Just to keep in touch with what used to be I carry a copy of Hemmings Motor News from 1967 (the small format) in the glove box of my 34 Ford. I wish I could call the guy with the 32 Ford Roadster that was overpriced at $2500.

Now, Like you I have a collection of old cars that mean the world to me but

probably won't set price records at my estate sale.

I too read the ads and don't even consider calling because the prices are so crazy. But occassionally I see one that's resonably priced and I do call, only to learn it was sold to another caller. The system lives and thrives and the over priced stuff remains advertised. The thrill of the hunt continues, it just costs more to hunt.

[trimacar]

Paul, my brother says the same thing, he's an avid hunter (of animals). His comment was that after 50 or so years of us both hunting different things (and spending the associated money), he's got a mounted deer head and a bunch of duck feathers, and I've got a garage full of cars that at least have some value.

I, too, have seen reasonable prices from dealers, in fact my (or better said, my wife's) '63 Corvette was bought from a dealer, at such a reasonable price that I thought he was making a mistake of some kind. There's a car for sale right now from a dealer, a '50's convertible, that I think is fairly priced for what the car is.

And yes, it does cost more to hunt, compared to the days of buying my first car, a 1931 Chevrolet, in 1964. It was "bought" for the trade of a $30 .22 rifle.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

I have to learn to choose my words more carefully.While it's true that "Antique Automobile"doesn't take the kind of dealer ads we're discussing here,it's still frustrating to read even private ads that say"price on request"or try to set a world record price.This is one reason it's so hard to attract young people into our world of car collecting. the only way the young can have an antique car is if they inherit it and most of them would rather try to strike gold.It's easy to say "just turn the page" or the magazine has to "pay the printing, postage etc., but after a while it's like reading the "auto shopper" Thanks for agreeing with me,Texriv _63

[Restorer32]

Don't forget, the only reason you can open a catalog and buy Model A parts or '57 Chevy parts or basically any part or service is because someone somewhere saw a chance to MAKE A PROFIT. How many ads have you seen that state "I am just a hobbyist and am offering these parts at cost because I love antique cars"? Maybe with the occasional obscure part. How about parts that require many thousands of dollars in dies, machine work etc.? How many hobbyists can you name who have turned down a high offer for a car because it was going to be sold to a dealer and instead sold it for less money to a "hobbyist"?

It is possible for one to be both a hobbyist and a dealer (or restorer) you know. One does not exclude the other. I know few people who have become rich dealing in or restoring cars. I do know some who have become poor.

I know several dealers who are substantial contributors to antique shows and museums.

Let's not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

[R W Burgess]

This ad may relate to this thread:

If you keep your eyes and ears open, even a young person can afford an antique. One like this one...

http://forums.aaca.org/f119/1958-buick-super-riviera-coupe-281548.html#post756401

Wayne

[TG57Roadmaster]

Wayne, I was just getting ready to post the same link to the Buick ad...

a real deal if ever there was one! And something that's repeated daily

a hundred times, only we don't hear or know of it.

As for annoying ads, members of most clubs go into histrionic fits when

annual dues are increased by the price of a decent bottle of wine, or two

six-packs, knowing full well that the newsletter/mag is the most costly part

of those dues.

The best answer is to simply turn the page...

TG