BCA Nationals.

[Jim]

On the Reatta discussion page ( AACA Forums BUICK CLUBS Buick Reatta ) there is a post by Booreatta titled "BCA National".

Chuck started this thread and Barney followed up. Then there are some posts critical of the BCA.

This might be a good place for those of us who think there are a lot of benefits to belonging to the BCA to do some posting. There are a lot of folks on the fence about joining the BCA and other marque clubs and this might be a good time to post some reasons for joining the BCA and maybe refute the couple of posters who are constantly negative of the BCA.

[Guest BJM]

Jim,

Plusses are obvious (to me) Fellowship and common interest in a great marque auto maker with a lot of variation. Those Reatta folks should understand that Buick built the Reatta, nobody else.

I am not a schill for the BCA though. Dues are too high. I recently re-joined off a 1993 original join date just so I can be in the BCA National event as a volunteer but it will be tough next year to re-up but I will.

It's like Christmas to go to a National and see all those Buicks (or a nice regional)

Edited February 19, 2010 by BJM (see edit history)

[Fr. Buick]

We are more and more becomming a society of individualists. Just ask the Elks, the Masons and every other social group. DVDs, Internet, take our guess as to the latest causes.

But nothing replaces relationships: learning how to do things, where the parts are, and how to enjoy this hobby.

I have met very fine people, done some very fun things, received - and hopefully offered back - very generous and patient help. And gone to some fun nationals and regionals. None of that, and even this chat room, would have happened without the BCA.

Some folks are really hurting, but for the vast majority, dues are simply a favorite gripe and not the real issue. To make a club work you have to show up ad pitch in, and that is the central issue. I don't understand how folks in the old car hobby can fail to appreciate that.

Maybe the should pick up video-games as a hobby instead. You can sit on the couch and never leave your front door.

Thanks for a fun and benefical club, everybody!

[serb]

Fr Doug,

I will bet that those that sit on the couch will pay more for one video game that they will for a couple of years of BCA dues.

[Mark Shaw]

A car club's suitability depends on your interests and what you make of it.

The BCA has all the right components to make it one of the best clubs for virtually any interest in Buicks.

PreWar originals to modern modified cars, touring, shows for awards, virtually any interest can be satisfied in the BCA.

My 2 cents...

[Guest wildcat465]

The BCA has given me:

1. My incredible wife (we were both in the local chapter for years before we started dating).

2. Many, many wonderful friends (you guys know who you are).

3. Opportunities to make many more friends.

4. A fabulous monthly magazine.

5. A chance to volunteer at local, regional, and at national shows.

6. The ability to judge cars and see how each one is cool in its own respect.

7. See so many other folks cars; stock, modified, restored, unrestored, I love them all, old ones, newer ones.

8. Inspiration to aquire a specific car and start doing things to make it a nice looking and reliable car to enjoy at events with my friends.

9. A network for finding parts and restoration advice.

10. The opportunity to see a lot of this beautiful country from behind the wheel of a cool Buick.

These are just my top ten, I bet there are many other great reasons that will be posted on this thread.

Anti-fun posters need not apply.

[Guest wildcat465]

Oops, sorry Derek, see parts of TWO countries behind the wheel of a cool Buick.

[stealthbob]

To be honest...I joined out of a sense of indebtedness to all you the Buick community....yes the Bugle did have a factor in that decision as well. There are so many who put in more than they take...as a newbie I could only start with monetary support which I hope to one day to add to that.

The cost of membership is about the same as a tank of gas (CDN member) so for the life of me I can't understand why not join and support those who would so willing support you if you would have the need.

Methinks there is and underlying issue/agenda other than just monetary or BCA policy...

All that being said, direct and succinct criticism can be helpful...as long as it has altruistic motives behind them.

Thank you to all contribute....

[JohnD1956]

On the Reatta discussion page ( AACA Forums BUICK CLUBS Buick Reatta ) there is a post by Booreatta titled "BCA National".

Chuck started this thread and Barney followed up. Then there are some posts critical of the BCA.

This might be a good place for those of us who think there are a lot of benefits to belonging to the BCA to do some posting. There are a lot of folks on the fence about joining the BCA and other marque clubs and this might be a good time to post some reasons for joining the BCA and maybe refute the couple of posters who are constantly negative of the BCA.

I'm not quite sure that posts regarding the benefits of membership would help in that thread. It is a disturbing discussion happening there. To me it demonstrates that not everyone will interpret things in the same way, BUT , people are much more alike in certain ways than they will ever realize.

I guess the biggest dissapointment in that discussion is the vehement language used to allege some members have taken advantage of the club. I can't tell if that refers to people in the Reatta Division or within the BCA. But it's a sad thing to read. Also it is lacking details of the allegations, which maybe should not be here but, hey, if you're gonna throw mud it's only fair to the recipients that they have a chance to defend against getting splattered.

Ultimately I think the thread points out that there are people who believe in their vehicles, but feel in their hearts that the BCA is not for them. And in that case I don't think the benefits of membership would make any difference.

The one thing I saw in that thread that is worthwhile though is a comment about membership percentages in some other Marquee club. It points out that dealers for the other brand offer discounts on parts for members of the Marquee club. Wouldn't it be great if the BCA could approach the Buick Division about pushing the Club at the dealership level? I'm sure some dealers would like the opportunity to open their business to a new revenue stream from people who voted with their wallet to support the cars they sell. But that's probably a topic for another thread.

[Barney Eaton]

I ran for the BCA board back in 2003.... one of my main concerns was the ratio of BCA members to the number of Buicks built. 2003 was the 100th for the Buick and there are hundreds of thousands of Buicks out there and only 9,000 BCA members at the time.

I thought there was something we could do to bring that number up...... double the number is not unrealistic considering the number of (collectable) Buicks out there.

7 years later, our numbers are down even further and I did not find the secret answer to why we don't have more members.

One opinion... there are probably a number of early cars in musuems.... and they don't join car clubs. But the total number of early (brass) cars is not the problem, that may only be a couple hundred cars.

For several years, I have taken the information in the BCA Roster and charted it for the BCA Board. The chart shows the number of cars belonging to BCA members for each year of production. This information is only as good as the input from members but it is a starting place. I am too lazy to dig out the last one (2008 Roster info) but recall that there is a big spike in the '55-'57 years and the number declines (with some one year spikes) as the Buicks get newer. After about 1987 (the last year of the GN) the numbers drop like a rock...

the Riviera being one of the few newer cars that shows up in the Roster until 1988 when the Reatta causes the numbers to spike again.

I said it back in the spring in the Bugle....a warning about our dwindling numbers and the operating cost remain..... The BCA members are the answer. They go to shows and meet other Buick owners. Always carry a BCA application and a copy of the Bugle with you. Most of the time the Bugle will sell the club and you close the deal with the application.

If one in 20 BCA members brings in 1 new member per year, that brings in 400+ NEW members that help share the operating cost..... this help every BCA member because more members mean more income and even a chance of the BCA membership dues going DOWN.

With the new show season beginning........dig out a Bugle and run a copy of the application either from the Bugle or online.......put them in the car and make an effort to bring in one new member to the BCA this year.

See you in Ames

Edited February 20, 2010 by Barney Eaton (see edit history)

[Guest BJM]

Barney's post had me thinking about the newer Buicks that are collectible and his comments about the older years.

1. Collectors that own the older Buicks are obviously passing on - dying. I would suspect those members drop out of the BCA, well OK I know they do - but that Bell Curve is now reaching into the 60's Buicks.

2. I own a 1988 LeSabre T Type and have seen many T Type ads out there that say "future collectible" and that goes for Reattas as well.

But overall my thought is the newer owners that are not interested in the old car hobby can NOT be approached about owning their "daily drivers" as collectors to preserve and attend BCA functions in.

Sorry, but we may need more time. Finally we are seeing good numbers of the 79-85 Rivieras being collected, preserved in the ROA and BCA. I had a co-worker selling a pristine last gen LeSabre "Celebration" car and I have seen Olympic edition Centurys and thought 'that would make a nice collector'. Then even I caught myself and said ....nah.

Yes we need to be inclusive for even newer Buicks but I don't think there is a potential gold mine of new members there.

[JohnD1956]

Barney, I bet most of us already do that. Probably some of us have managed to bring in two or three new members over time. It is an approach to fixing the problem you describe. However I think the main problem is twofold: todays general negative attitude about everything. And todays me first general attitude. It's hard to tell which comes first though.

I believe some people join to see what the club can do for them. If the club provides what they want or need, then they have a positive attitude. If the opposite occurs then a negative attitude becomes prevalent. And there after we are much more likely to hear the negative attitude vocalized. Unfortunately a large segment of the population will focus on the negative before the positive because in the long run they want to know what the club will do for them. It's a vicious, ongoing cycle, that may never change in the forseeable future.

Ultimately, gaining a few members by trying to convince negative people that there is something positive is an exercise in futility. I'll keep trying to boost membership because I like this club. I like the 400 point judging even though I have never opted to have any of my cars judged. This is because I think people who have put their money into making beautiful cars ought to recieve some reward and I like looking at these beautiful cars.

I also like the Historical Class even though I have never had any of my cars in that class. Those who find the museum piece and go out of their way to preserve it deserve some reward too. And I like looking at these cars.

I like the Modified class too. Those who spend their time doing first class unique modifications ought to be rewarded. It's like an art piece. Everyone can see the same thing and interpret it their own way. These cars are drop dead pretty and attract the mainstream population by their visual appeal. They attract me too.

I also like meeting people who have a common interest in the Buick car. So the club is well worth the cost of admission. I just need to find a way to make it to more events nationwide.

Edited February 20, 2010 by JohnD1956 (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

I read through that whole "conversation" on the Reatta Forum. In our "Internet-enabled" world, it appears that "taking things at face value" (the printed word) can't really encompass exact feelings of poking fun at some when the same words (at face value) might indicate otherwise. By the time it was all over, those "tongue-in-cheek" comments were noted and explained.

Stoneberg also offered some great explanations of why things are "in Ames", which many of us already knew, but apparently some others did not. Thanks, Bill!

With regards to national meet judging, there can be many different approaches which some marques use as others do something else. In the case of Chrysler TC owners doing peer judging, perhaps the "peers" really KNOW enough about their unique cars to do them justice with that judging system? Typically, "peer judging" is more about what one might like rather than correctness . . . but many purists KNOW what's correct and can do good peer judging, by observation, whereas others might not reach that same level of expertise or execution . . . with all due respects. Having a "judged show", using judges with some instructions of what is what, or knowledge thereof, usually adds a higher tone to the validity of the awards--by observation. A KEY thing in any awards situation is to have enough classes to cover the majority of the vehicles present, but this can be variable for the situation.

To many Buick purchasers, the thought of "future collectible" was not a real consideration. The possible exception might be the Reatta owners, but still, they used their unique vehicles for normal use (typically) and then sold them when some of the advanced equipment (normally, ABS brake components or Touch Screens) got old enough to start causing problems. In those earlier times, they usually took the cars back to the selling dealers who discovered some operating systems (unique to the Reatta, not shared with the similar Rivieras) had key parts that were already discontinued from GM (at that time). As most dealers were not in the business to "rig" things with "unapproved by GM" components from other vehicles (in the case of brake systems, which could result in "safety issues"), the owners took the cars back and sold them privately at bargain prices. They had NO knowledge that a national Reatta club even existed NOR had the Internet to allow them to search for same. I knew of one owner who had accumulated about SIX Reattas to keep his two "drivers" running by using spare parts. Then, when one of his better ones was rear-ended, I think that was his signal to bail out of the Reatta ownership arena--about 15 years ago.

By observation, the BCA's "End of the Assembly Line" orientation of correctness and "stockness" has merit, but many new Buick owners never considered their vehicles to be "collectible" as "collectible" generally meant things like '57 Chevies or early T-birds or "antiques" rather than being applied to the later model Buicks they had. A matter of perception, as things have evolved.

Another observation is that many ROA and GS and Reatta Division operatives might not share the complete "as produced" orientation to the same level as the BCA operatives might, as evidenced by forum posts asking about upgrading/adding aftermarket a/c systems, different automatic transmissions, etc. for their vehicles. Perhaps some different interior fabric and color choices as the originals deteriorated from normal wear and no NOS sources were locally known or available from local shops. Sure, NOS items might have been chased down and used, but with nothing available locally, the owners made "choices" to greater personalize their personal vehicles to their tastes. Probably not unlike what many other Buick owners might have done over the years as "correctness" was not a real consideration, just something that looked good with "factory" quality installation.

There can be reasons to "obsess" over the details just as there can be reasons to have an open mind when something "new" might be observed. In the case of the "cloth tops" on Reattas, I suspect that might be an easier thing to track if the vendor's shipping records might be sourced. Top color should be on the vehicle's SPID label, just as the production paint codes are. Build sheets?

So, many Reatta owners, when they owned their Reattas in a "newer" time, had no real reason to get involved with car clubs or really need the support such a national group might and does currently provide as the vehicles were still under factory warranty with many items still available from GM (whether normally listed in the GM Parts Database or in a particular service bulletin of who to call to get something--as I had to do to get a new convertible "lid" weatherstrip for a "last year" Reatta convertible back then). The original owners who kept their cars long enough to need the support to know where to get ABS brake parts were not interested in joining car clubs, either, they just liked their "little Buick" and treated it like any other "used car" that needed more repairs than they could afford. I HAVE run across some who bought used Reattas that had Barney's contact information in them--how about that!

As for Buick dealers offering certain car club members discounts on parts? That's SOLELY up to the dealership and NOT influenced by GM or otherwise--period. I do know that other national car clubs have discount deals with some dealerships, but one never knows if the discounted prices are from OEM Suggested Retail or if the particular parts manager has tweaked the parts prices in his computers with "matrix pricing" or otherwise. What might appear to be "a deal" might not really be "a deal". Be that as it may. Now . . . if some dealers might want to step up and offer discounts to valid paid-in-full BCA members (with verification from the BCA National Office, possibly?), there's nothing to stop them from doing that. But the discounts might be eaten up with shipping costs to the customer. Usually, it's better to build a working relationship with a local/regional dealership parts or service operative that will genuinely take care of your inquiries and needs in a professional manner, face to face or over the phone once the relationship is established, than trying to deal with somebody on the other end of the phone line or Internet email . . . not to say that a long-distance situation might not work, either.

Over the years, there have been many car magazines which had tips on how to approach dealership parts department people with respect to trying to get discount pricing on parts. In reality, unless said car club can prove that they can generate sufficient volume to keep the department's gross profits high, they'll probably not get anything significant. To me, "presentation" is everything in that situation . . . as some want to flaunt the fact of how many vehicles they've bought for how many decades from the dealership, as if they are "entitled" rather than deserving. Personally, I'm much more inclined to offer a discount to somebody who I see signals of them really needing the discount or a serious DIY walk-in, consistent customer than an "entitled" customer. Be that as it may . . .

The other reality regarding dealerships is that few really care about older cars not on their used car lot or in their service department for repair. What they DO like is using older cars as a marketing draw to help generate lot traffic--much better than tying some balloons on mirrors. It needs to be a mutually beneficial situation and many are happy to operate in that orientation. Many also know that if a person has a vintage vehicle of a make they sell, that can be a customer for a new vehicle of the same make--the networking orientation. By observation . . .

Seems like the Reatta group was a free-standing group before they came online as a BCA Division? To me, reality is that if the Reatta group was still operating "unattached", their operating expenses would be higher than they currently might be, which would typically mean higher membership dues to help cover many of the things the BCA is already covering for itself and its divisions. Just a gut suspicion.

I don't know that you can expect a certain percentage of owners of particular vehicles to be in marque vehicle clubs. Many owners, past and present, consider vehicles "as appliances" rather than something to be passionate about, but this can be highly variable depending upon which brand/marque it might be. Surely, in some cases, there are many benefits to these owners, even of newer vehicles, being in vehicle clubs with similar-minded people/enthusiasts. Suddenly, a whole new world of "car fun" can open up before them . . . a world they had no idea even existed, until the invitation to join was extended and they stayed around long enough to check it out . . . IF they had enough free non-committed time to devote to such a new adventure.

I, too, was disturbed by some of the comments I saw in the Reatta Forum, but it's nothing I haven't seen/heard before, just not quite to that level of intensity. I was glad to see that things has quietened down toward the end.

There are many things related to the BCA that some BCA operatives do NOT want to see changed or altered in any way . . . which is understandable. There are also some things in the BCA that those not in the BCA, or in other non-affiliated Buick-related groups perceive need to be changed IF the BCA were to receive their membership dues, or some existing BCA members, for that fact. Sometimes, they are related to the same area, sometimes not. Sometimes it seems like these areas are a means of justifying that some people have a reason to not join, whether that's the real reason or not.

IF we are going to give past, current, and potential BCA members "compelling reasons" to be a BCA member, these "not-joining" orientations will need to be addressed to remove them from the "irritants list" for not motivating Buick enthusiasts to be BCA members. Right now, the "hot button" seems to be the cost of BCA membership added to BCA Divison membership dues and BCA Chapter membership dues. Considered in total, the number can result in sticker shock in a "down" economic situation, but still what it might be in better economic times. That's when the "What do I get" or "Why do I need to join the BCA to be a member locally?" questions get asked. Admittedly, from what I've seen in the past, how those questions are answered is not always done in the best manner, even by some older BCA members. Potential members will use their prior car club experiences to determine if they really want to be BCA members . . . at whatever cost. We can't change their past experiences, all we can do is do our best to make them welcome into our Buick enthusiast groups such that they are motivated to "stay a while". Still, though, for many new members, it can be a big juggling act to position BCA and chapter membership against what they already have going on.

Even if they might be transient members, hopefully we can make a good enough impression that they'll come back later on and/or tell somebody else who might be interested that THEY need to join. There's NO rocket science here, just strive to treat current/potential members as you would like to be treated in such a situation . . . welcome and friendly.

As for the national meets, it should be the cars that get us to be members of the parent national organization (and related divisions and local chapters), judged or not, but it should be the people in the club that keep us coming back year after year, meet after meet, as an extended family of sorts having an annual family reunion (been there too!). Sure, there might be some family members you might not want to share a meal with, but that's NOT a good reason to stay away, either, as the benefits far outweigh the few detractions (which are also avoidable, usually).

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

Edited February 22, 2010 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Rawja]

I'll say it again, make the Bugle available online.

Create an "online Bugle only" membership level and the dues will be so comparatively cheap (yet immensely profitable for the BCA) that everybody wins.