Someone is selling MY CAR on eBay - Possible Fraud?

[FRED Z]

Looking at eBay last night, noticed 4 pictures of MY 1955 Pontiac Safari on a car being sold on eBay by a seller from MN with zero (0) Positives.

Pontiac : eBay Motors (item 330396488616 end time Jan-22-10 16:24:14 PST)

If above link does not work, just enter item 330396488616 in an eBay search.

There are 17 bids already and I notified spoof@ebay.com about the fact that the pictures shown are of MY Pontiac. In fact I have the exact same pictures on my hard drive from early last year. The only change is that the seller blacked out the North Carolina license plates. Interior details in his picture are identical to MY CAR - yellow key hang tag, factory air ducts (very rare), wrong skirting around front seat, wrong top door trim in ivory (should be metallic). Even the POCI sticker on left rear passenger window is the same, as are other features that I noticed.

I sent some questions to the seller through eBay, but no answer so far. One of my questions was "where were the pictures taken - it sure doesn't look like MN in the winter". I also mentioned the similarities between what I called, "my friend's car" and asked if the pictures were of the seller's car or not, as I was ready to bid once clarified.

So that everyone can understand my dilema, I am attaching pictures (saved on my hard drive) from about a year ago when my car was on eBay, showing North Carolina 1955 license plates that were on the car when purchased last year, and are still in my possession in my car. Someone has either lifted the pictures from eBay and is pulling a scam, or is selling another '55 Safari of the same exact color combination, and is using the same pictures to save the time and trouble of taking his or her own pictures. However what are the odds of another 55 Pontiac having very rare factory air-conditioning ducts and "vintage air" which seller says "cools great".

I checked the properties of seller's 4 pictures and all said "Pontiac". Something doesn't seem right here. Attached are 4 pictures from my hard drive that were taken of my car in about 2008. Compare with the same 4 pictures posted by seller on eBay at the link above. Any ideas on how all of this happened?

Also how will seller get any financial gain if selling a car that probably does not exist?

Fred

[JZRIV]

Yep looks like the same car to me. No question there.

This type of fraud unfortunately is not that uncommon on ebay and its a never ending battle for the folks at ebay to keep up with.

Some fraudsters request an immediate deposit be made which is not uncommon and once they get that, they disappear from the face of earth.

This guy has a no reserve auction which should be a red flag to interested buyers on such a nice car not to mention zero feedback. He is not requesting a deposit but full payment within 7 days. Possibly hoping for a buyer from outside of the country perhaps.

I am shocked with so many bids from a seller with zero feedback and such little description in the ad.

[Dandy Dave]

If enough people put an alert on the car. It should will be pulled. I noticed that there is no reserve on the car, and little discription. That makes the bells and whistles blow for me. If they do not reply to questions.... Scamers. Dandy Dave!

[Trulyvintage]

Fred,

Relax and take a deep breath .....

Once images are posted on the internet - they are there forever

As long as you are not the one selling the car you have nothing

to worry about .....

They are just pictures of a car - one of millions of cars

Jim

[Dandy Dave]

You need to go to "Report this item." Go to the ebay link and on the right side part way down push on the "Report this item" link. I just did it myself. Hopfully it will get pulled. Dandy Dave!

[MCHinson]

While you are not responsible, we all need to do our best to stop fraud. I have also reported this fraud to Ebay. Hopefully they will pull this auction soon to prevent someone losing any money to this crook.

[Trulyvintage]

While you are not responsible, we all need to do our best to stop fraud. I have also reported this fraud to Ebay. Hopefully they will pull this auction soon to prevent someone losing any money to this crook.

I agree .....

The sad truth is over 50% of the cars I transport from ebay sales

are not 'as described' in the auction listing

Over half the time, the Buyer is really disappointed with the car

Ebay is not what it used to be

It is purely profit driven

Jim

[FRED Z]

Thanks Dave and others,

I have just sent to eBay a "Report this item", plus last night sent two emails to spoof@ebay.com, going into more details. I keep hoping that seller will answer my questions, as I told him that I was ready to buy. Maybe I should ask what kind of a deposit is required if we can make a deal quickly. It sure is a nice car (it should be, as it is definitely my car).

Will the real owner stand up? (I'm standing).

See the actual car, or other pictures of this same car at the TP Car Museum in Canfield, Ohio Check out this car and others in my collection at Home Page

Attached are two more pictures of MY CAR that I took at work last summer with my own camera, although these two pictures show the original NC license plates. It sure looks like the same car to me!

Fred

Edited January 19, 2010 by FRED Z
Add pictures (see edit history)

[Trulyvintage]

Thanks Dave and others,

I have just sent to eBay a "Report this item", plus last night sent two emails to spoof@ebay.com, going into more details. I keep hoping that seller will answer my questions, as I told him that I was ready to buy. Maybe I should ask what kind of a deposit is required if we can make a deal quickly. It sure is a nice car (it should be, as it is definitely my car).

Will the real owner stand up? (I'm standing).

See the actual car, or other pictures of this same car at the TP Car Museum in Canfield, Ohio Check out this car and others in my collection at Home Page

Attached are two more pictures of MY CAR that I took at work last summer with my own camera, although these two pictures show the original NC license plates. It sure looks like the same car to me!

Fred

Fred,

No doubt you own the car .....

Why are attempting to communicate with a criminal?

You are not in law enforcement, all you are doing is providing

more information to a criminal :cool:

Assuming you communicated thru ebay messaging system,

you just revealed your ebay identity to this criminal

Ebay listings are FULL of fraudulent sales posted thru

accounts that have been hijacked ....

Leave law enforcement to the professionals

Jim

[FRED Z]

Hi Jim,

You are right and I am wrong. I just couldn't resist and won't do it again. Fred

[Trulyvintage]

Hi Jim,

You are right and I am wrong. I just couldn't resist and won't do it again. Fred

Fred,

There is no 'right or wrong' here ...

Look, someone took your images and created a fraudulent listing

on ebay.

No offense, there are THOUSANDS of ebay ads created every day

on ebay just like this one

Separating your emotional response from what happens next

is the key to preventing further fraud.

These criminals 'hijack' valid accounts and create listings

to get money from GREEDY people who should know better

but think they are getting a 'great deal' by bidding.

The more information a criminal has, the easier their job becomes.

Jim

[poci1957]

I tried the link and looks like it is pulled already as of 10am Central

[MCHinson]

Yes, it has been pulled. The system seems to have worked this time.

This listing (330396488616) has been removed, or this item is not available.Please check that you've entered the correct item number

Listings that have ended 90 or more days ago will not be available for viewing.

[Guest S_A_W]

Hahaha, just had to chime in because I love the title of your thread. My guess is that if they are selling your car and you don't know about it - it is probably fraud!!

[Guest mercflyer]

An antique store close to where I live has a sign posted "no pictures". Apparently someone was taking pictures of stuff in the store without authorization and posting them on Ebay with reserves. If the item went higher he would go to the store and buy the item and send it. Now that I think of it, it's sort of a win win for all parties. But really low down and cheezy.

[joe_padavano]

I agree with others that this is likely just a case of someone grabbing pictures off of the internet to use to misrepresent the car he really is selling. While not quite as fraudulent, the Wikipedia entry for the Cadillac Allante uses an unauthorized photo of my car. The photo of the green 1993 Allante in the Wiki entry came straight from the Ebay ad that I bought the car from. I saved all those photos to my computer, so I have that exact shot. The aftermarket chrome wheels are also a dead giveaway.

[Paul Dobbin]

When I looked just now, the item had been removed from Ebay. I guess your report got action. I hope so anyway.

[FRED Z]

I mentioned that I had asked a few questions of the seller of this car and here is an email that I received this morning (car was listed as being in MN, but must have been air-lifted to Europe this week, as is now in Croatia). Here is the email:

Hello,

Thank you for your email, and sorry for my late reply. First of all the car belonged to my father, he was the first and only owner, and after he passed away 7 moths ago, he left the car to me. I do not now much about this car. I can let you know that it has a clean US title, it has no scratches or dents, it has 75700 miles and it runs perfectly, I've took it for a drive before I left US, and I didn't drove it since then. Anyway I have all the receipts and for all the work that has been made on it. The car is now in Zagreb, Croatia with me, and it is crated as I received it, when I've moved here 1 moth ago, because I found a better job. I've tried to register it here but the odometer is in miles, and to make it street legal, I'll have to pay around $4000 US money that I cannot afford because I want to buy a house, so I've decided to sell it. The total price that you'll have to pay for this car is $14000 US, price that includes shipping taxes and insurance. All of my transactions until now were made under eBay's protection, and for that I wish that we make this deal also with eBay's protection. If you agree with moving forward with the deal through eBay please email me your full name and shipping address. As soon as I receive these information from you I will forward them to eBay along with the rest of the details in order for them to open a case regarding our deal and they will contact you in the shortest time with all the details of the transaction.I am waiting for your email as soon as possible.

Thanks

Jeffrey Fisher

Does anyone on this forum care to comment? I would certainly be interested in this car at this great price, but since it is already my car, will have to pass on his very generous offer! Could you imagine trying to sell a car on eBay to the owner of the same car? I will be forwarding a copy of his email to eBay shortly.

Fred

[ex98thdrill]

I see good and bad of this. It would be interesting to see what your car would've brought.

If it wasn't for not wanting to draw any more attention to yourself, if the guy has the car, ask him for a pencil tracing of the serial number. He either has it or he doesn't. If he has it, you'll know on the serial number if he's telling the truth, and if he doesn't, you caught him in a lie.

[FRED Z]

I forgot to mention that the eBay seller forwarded 24 pictures of MY CAR to me with his email that I received this AM. I don't need a pencil tracing, and unless he is able to get inside my locked and alarmed garage in Ohio, he will be unable to provide it. The pictures that he sent show all of my very rare accessories (Pontiac compass, under the hood portable light, other features). He evidently pirated these photos from an eBay auction of about a year ago, prior to my purchase of the car last summer from the real owner. The only thing that he did was to black out the 1955 North Carolina plates in all exterior photos.

I just sent his email and attached pictures to spoof@ebay.com for their information, but doubt if they will provide any information to me in return. I also asked eBay about their "protection plan" that seller mentioned. I do not intend to further correspond with the seller, as have already wasted too much time on this, in exposing this fraudulent attempt to sell my car on eBay.

Fred

Edited January 20, 2010 by FRED Z (see edit history)

[R Walling]

Hey! Fred!, I have this bridge in Brooklyn that I am selling...

[FRED Z]

Thanks Roger. I will need a pencil tracing of the metal plaque that is attached to the bridge and then we can go from there. What is your best price and will you accept a second-party post-dated personal check Number 101? Fred

[ex98thdrill]

I forgot to mention that the eBay seller forwarded 24 pictures of MY CAR to me with his email that I received this AM. I don't need a pencil tracing, and unless he is able to get inside my locked and alarmed garage in Ohio, he will be unable to provide it.

You don't get it. He may have a car like yours that he's selling. You can't prove that he does or doesn't, any more than I can prove that the car is yours. Your issue is that he's using pictures of your car, and that is a valid issue. But even though he is using pictures of your car, you still have no means to prove that he doesn't have a car like yours to sell.

If he does have a car to sell, a pencil tracing of the serial number will verify if there is a car there, and you'll know it as soon as you see it. If the pencil tracing comes up with numbers matching your vehicle, I would be very concerned as to how it surfaced. If a serial number comes up and it's different, with you being an owner, you'll know by the numbers if it's authentic.

I think everyone agrees that there is a fraud involved, but until you can prove different, the only fraud involved is that someone is trying to sell a car that is not the one shown in the pictures.

[FRED Z]

I didn't post the 24 pictures that the seller in Croatia sent to me this AM with his email, which confirms even more that he is representing (directly or indirectly) that the car he is selling is my car. (Read his words to me in my earlier post - if this doesn't look like an attempted fraud, what is?). I can assure you that every one of his 24 pictures is of my car - even the exact same wrinkles in the upholstery and the odometer reading. I don't have to prove anything, but if he is selling a car on eBay and sending 24 pictures to a prospective buyer as being the car that he is selling (when the pictures are definitely not of a car owned by seller), something is wrong. The reason why I posted all of this info was to alert others of what can happen on eBay and other venues. While I would like very much to ask for a pencil tracing of the serial number, am no longer willing to waste any more time with this guy.

Fred

[Luv2Wrench]

I think that email tops them all. Perfect in most every way. You can't meet him to see it because it is in Croatia. He can't give you a recent picture because it is crated. I am sure all those documents are in the crate as well so he can't get to them to send a copy. You can't get a pencil trace because the car is crated. He can't register the car because the odometer is in miles and it will cost $4K to change it. He needs that $4K to buy a house (!) as the job he got last month is going so well he has decided to stay.

It may be a real car and he is using pictures of your car... but he, very conveniently, can't prove that just right now.

[ex98thdrill]

You can't get a pencil trace because the car is crated.

I missed that portion of the post, but I appreciate you not being rude by not making a remark about tracing the Brooklyn Bridge.

[Guest mystarcollectorcar.com]

this is similar to something that happened last summer with a Saleen Mustang.

Caveat Emptor- The 21st century version. SALEEN MUSTANG S 281 EXTREME

[Luv2Wrench]

this is similar to something that happened last summer with a Saleen Mustang.

Caveat Emptor- The 21st century version. SALEEN MUSTANG S 281 EXTREME

DOH!!!

I could see me falling for that. "EBay Payment Protection Plan", sounds official enough for me.

[FRED Z]

Ryan's story (Caveat Emptor - Saleen Mustang S) referred to in the previous post is very interesting and he is indeed fortunate that he handled the matter so quickly and so well that he was able to get some help. Regarding my issue with someone selling my 1955 Pontiac Savari, in two emails to eBay, I asked about the "eBay Protection Plan" - there is no such plan and I wish that eBay would publish this information for everyone's advantage.

eBay sent only 2 identical generic letters to me. They sent no specific answers, talking about "taking appropriate action based on their findings", going on to say that this could involve a "warning, temporary or indefinite suspension, or account termination". They also said "for the protection of all members, eBay can't provide details on any individual investigation or account", hoping that I would understand. eBay also said to forward questionable emails from eBay to spoof@ebay.com and not to reply or click on any of the links.

In other words, we are on our own when dealing on the Internet. There are many legitimate offers on eBay and I have purchased 2 cars as a result of eBay posts and 2 cars through this AACA Forum, but in each case, went to the seller's location, viewed the cars and title and compared the vin number to the number on the title.

Asking for a pencil tracing was mentioned earlier in this thread and is a GOOD IDEA. With my '55 Pontiac described in this thread, I opted not to ask for this, as already knew that the seller has lifted pictures of my car from the eBay seller back about a year ago and did not want to waste any more time with the seller. Remember that if you have a gut feeling that things don't seem right, they probably are not right and if the deal is too good to be true . . . you know the story.

In buying some of my other cars, I first call the seller and ask about the car, asking for more pictures and a fax copy of the title. Asking for a picture or tracing of the vin number is good too. I usually ask seller how long he or she has owned the car and where purchased previously. I later check Google to see if his/her address is listed and see if any other information. Dealing with an AACA or other car club member that has been in the club for some years is helpful. In other words, the goal is to buy the car, but not to get scammed. There is very little protection on eBay purchases, so "buyer beware" (also seller beware in some circumstances).

If the seller is legitimate, he or she won't mind furnishing whatever a buyer asks for. I once was interested in a very valuable car and drove a couple of hours to see it. First the seller couldn't find his glasses, so could not find the title to show it to me. Two days later he found his glasses, but said he couldn't find the title, but it was somewhere. We tentatively agreed on the price, but the seller wanted cash (greenbacks). I explained that I am retired and do not deal in cash. Finally I realized that there were too many red flags, so did not buy the car. It just isn't worth all of the hassle and the worst thing would be to do a one or two year restoration and then no title. About that time the real owner might show up and get a fully restored car. This could possibly happen.

Fred